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Is anyone else concerned about private business in our schools?

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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,965
2,953
136
Not to mention a lot of the money is lost in how many layers of administration there are. There are too many school districts and too many levels of admin and assistant.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
76
Originally posted by: Zorba
Not to mention a lot of the money is lost in how many layers of administration there are. There are too many school districts and too many levels of admin and assistant.
We have something like fifteen ESU's in Nebraska. ESU = Educational Service Unit. Within a ESU they are supposed to share resources for technology and support which goes as far as substitutes, computers, security, etc. Instead of saving money they ended up costing about 30% more than the schools doing those things themselves. Plus many of the school districts like my own, which now have the ESU to support them, failed to cut back administrative staffing short of letting them retire. That is like a second kick in the ass.

And yet they complain at both levels there is no money for the kids...

...not to mention the busing contracts began to soar in costs just three years into them...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
ONe question is why not have a savings account for your daughter? Sure, the rate sucks(right now) but it is probably age appropriate to be using a savings acct of some kind. It's not like she's going to start a trading fund since she has no real concept of the market regardless of how smart you think she is. Sheesh.

But as to your idea of corporate taking over the school - good luck with that - the NEA controls the schools and there is no way corporate interests are going to get past the NEA and gov't interference... :)
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,379
0
0
Corporate america can't do any more harm than the left has already done. Since the new liberial era began our school systems just plain ass suck . Come to think of it . Since left moved in and camped at media headquarters. All aspectics of AMERICAN life has declined. Ask any old fart . 3rd graders plot to stab their teacher . This is an outrage

This kids all need an ass wiping . OH I forgot since the left took over you can't wip your children ass.

Fact is coporate could be a good thing. So far as choosing a career and training. But me myself Lets put america back to were it was in the late 50's . With a few improvements . Such as doing what Martin Luther king accomplished without being forced to do so. Man it would be a good place .
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Corporate america can't do any more harm than the left has already done. Since the new liberial era began our school systems just plain ass suck . Come to think of it . Since left moved in and camped at media headquarters. All aspectics of AMERICAN life has declined. Ask any old fart . 3rd graders plot to stab their teacher . This is an outrage

This kids all need an ass wiping . OH I forgot since the left took over you can't wip your children ass.

Fact is coporate could be a good thing. So far as choosing a career and training. But me myself Lets put america back to were it was in the late 50's . With a few improvements . Such as doing what Martin Luther king accomplished without being forced to do so. Man it would be a good place .
I don't see the left looking to teach creationism, banning real sex ed, etc. Who's controlled the government for the past decade? Not us.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
No, you're definitely not alone. In my experience everything privatized gets worse. At least when it's government run the goal is humanitarian. Once business takes over then you lose that to greed.

The last thing we need is encouragement to kids to be consumers, capitalists, etc.
Actually, it doesn't matter what any goal is for a government agency or program because they never achieve those goals.

Secondly, businesses might bring in greed and "the bottom line" but if our government had any concept of "bottom lines" then we wouldn't be trillions in debt would we? I'd much rather have greed and responsibility than no-responsibility or accountability at all which is how our government exists.

Finally, every kid that grows up will be a capitalist and a consumer and I don't see how that's a problem either.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Corporate america can't do any more harm than the left has already done. Since the new liberial era began our school systems just plain ass suck . Come to think of it . Since left moved in and camped at media headquarters. All aspectics of AMERICAN life has declined. Ask any old fart . 3rd graders plot to stab their teacher . This is an outrage

This kids all need an ass wiping . OH I forgot since the left took over you can't wip your children ass.

Fact is coporate could be a good thing. So far as choosing a career and training. But me myself Lets put america back to were it was in the late 50's . With a few improvements . Such as doing what Martin Luther king accomplished without being forced to do so. Man it would be a good place .
I don't see the left looking to teach creationism, banning real sex ed, etc. Who's controlled the government for the past decade? Not us.
No, the left just wants to teach children to feel good about themselves. Forget reading and math, we can't hold kids back if they get to high school and can't do those things. Just imagine how being held back would hurt their feelings!

Face it, both the radical right and radical left have had their way with this country for far too long. The silent majority needs to stop being so silent.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,155
9
81
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Remember this story:

Student suspended for wearing Pepsi t-shirt on "Coke Day"
The day the principal starts respecting an outside company official more than her students is the day the principal should get fired for failing to do her job, her job isn't to promote a comany, her job is to promote and help her students.
damn right. suprised there was not more of a uproar or a lawsuit. if anyone needed to be punished it was the Principal
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,017
1
76
Why is it that you are concerned about corporations influencing your kids, but pay no mind to the fact that the government teacher's union has a monopoly on teaching positions?

Coca-cola paying schools to have exclusive access to put their coke machines in the cafeteria vs...teachers teaching that the 2nd amendment guarantee's the states' rights to form the national guard...which of those seems more insidious to you?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
141
116
Sorry guys, your children will have to buddy-up with corporate America, at least until we finish building all those Iraqi and Afghani schools.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,086
493
126
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
No, you're definitely not alone. In my experience everything privatized gets worse. At least when it's government run the goal is humanitarian. Once business takes over then you lose that to greed.

The last thing we need is encouragement to kids to be consumers, capitalists, etc.
lmfao
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,423
615
126
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
GREAT THREAD.

Yes, I too am very concerned about this. My daughter just started Kindergarten this year, and already she's been asked to take part in three different solicitation initiatives. And we also get flooded with business literature from the school - selling books, crafts, any number of things. God help us when she gets older, and is then pressured harder to participate.

Someone has to slow this down, or the schools will spend more time fund-raising than they do educating.
yip i hate them. the latest one was a flower drive. and of course we have to participate the school puts so much pressure on the kids to sell sell sell that if i as the only parent say, "no boy we aren't doing that" he will feel left out and a outcast. the schools gets them young because of their strong desire to participate and do good and reach goals for the reward.

so it pisses me off that the school make the parents look like villains if we say no we are not doing this stupid fund raiser.
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,357
9
81
Originally posted by: Zorba
I think one big problem with schools nowadays is how much "technology" they put into all the rooms. I graduated high school in '01, so not that long ago. I made it through all of elementary with my school having one computer lab and a couple computers in the library. In middle school there were two computers labs and about 10 computers in the library. About the same in HS. Now every damn class room has computers in it, every school has a handful of labs with newer computers. Hell, my wife used to tutor 5th graders at an inner city school and they had a full set of PDAs for every student in the class, WTF? And they taught them to do math on the PDAs.

Also before high school, if we wanted to watch a movie in class they had to bring in a projector or TV on a cart. Now every single room has a TV, VCR and DVD player.

It is ridiculous. Not to mention just the cost of getting the equipment in the first place, but now they have to pay a ton of IT people to manage it. It also hurts the teaching process, IMHO, kids need to do Math by hand not on a calculator a PDA. I got all the way through college Differential Equations and Vector Calc without using my calculator for anything more than trig functions and logs, but 5th graders need PDAs to do division? WTF
heh, you are right in some aspects of it! Computers in every room(besides a teachers) is ridiculous, and you would not believe how expensive it has gotten to fill out a school with computers. I work in a school systems IT department so I know, and its insane amounts of money! The reality is that 1-2 student computers per classroom offers no real advantage and only takes up space. But it looks good for publicity..and thats all that matters!

Also, although it may seem like it, there really aren't that many IT people in school systems. Usually the pay is crap (think 30-40k for system technicians) and the job frustrating as many of the administrators are corrupt.

You are right in the administrative part though. All too often they are truly awful at their job, get paid WAY to much and with way too many "extras" thrown in with their pay, and also many are out to simply help their buddies along. No one in my district comes free, they always bring someone else with them! With principals that usually means a teacher of some sort, with higher admins that can mean a principal.

The real problem though is sports. Millions of dollars go into the sports program, mostly football around here, and for what benefit? I know that some of them will only get the chance to go to college through a sports scholarship, but when their babied through HS they simply won't make it in college anyway. The coaches then get paid significantly more than teachers, and they only have to teach the easy classes(like economics), when I mean significantly I'm talking in the 60-100k region! No teacher will make that unless they've been there for 35 years!.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
The question of privatized education is a side issue.
No, it's merely an extension of this issue. The commercialization of public schools is one repelling aspecting of them and a contributory reason in deciding to send a kid to a private school.
need to stop expecting our students to be a free sales force for any new idea that comes along in the schools.
HELL YEAH
Hell, my wife used to tutor 5th graders at an inner city school and they had a full set of PDAs for every student in the class, WTF? And they taught them to do math on the PDAs.
Like rio said, it's bullsh*t tax payer money expenses and in this case no quantifiable defense of the expense at all. I didn't use computers in school much at all. How the hell is it that I work with them for a living? Defies belief, doesn't it? A crap curriculum and crap student will still both be crap if the medium is a laptop my property taxes just paid for.
so it pisses me off that the school make the parents look like villains if we say no we are not doing this stupid fund raiser.
Oh, then I'd love to hear what you think about schools making kids sign contracts in highschool like "I won't do drugs or drink alcohol" or sh*t like that. Just yesterday some highschool kids were caught having a beer party (oh the horror) and they were suspended from school. WTF does school have to do with their drinking after hours? It is the police now? Gross overstepping of bounds. The teachers' union and school districts in general are a cancer.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I didn't use computers in school much at all. How the hell is it that I work with them for a living? Defies belief, doesn't it?
How can you expect children to compete in the modern world without using computers all the time?

I used computers in grade school, and it prepared me for my life as professional Logo programmer.

True story.

Go Turtle Go!
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
24
81
Businesses in schools is a horrible idea. Running a school like a business is a good one.

We need to stop worrying about what is fair, and start worrying about what is fact. Fair, all children will graduate grade school. Fact, all children shouldn't graduate grade shool.

What is missing in the lower schools is competition. People from poorer schools are now getting to college and finding out they didn't learn crapola in lower schools. Making some of the kids cry might sound cold, but deluding them with the fantasy that they have all done well is far more costly.

Kids need to be weeded out. Some should go on and learn things that will lead to higher education, and most should go to vocational training schools to learn how to run computers and fix cars. The rest will be at McDonald's anyway. There are methods of determining whether you will be worth a shit at anything by the time you are about 10, that are pretty accurate.

Men were created equal, but after that it get's dicey.

Who said we shouldn't be teaching kids to be capitalists? Wasn't five decades of failed socialism enough proof for you?
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Remember this story:

Student suspended for wearing Pepsi t-shirt on "Coke Day"
The day the principal starts respecting an outside company official more than her students is the day the principal should get fired for failing to do her job, her job isn't to promote a comany, her job is to promote and help her students.
damn right. suprised there was not more of a uproar or a lawsuit. if anyone needed to be punished it was the Principal
It was in Georgia - authority is still supreme and isn't usually questioned.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,829
0
0
As someone who is 100% pro capitalism, an education environment is no place for marketing. The fact that school had a "Coke Day" is sickening. If my kids were being exposed to marketing in their school, whether it was public or private, I would be outraged.
 

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