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Is anyone else concerned about private business in our schools?

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,358
0
71
I have an eight year old daughter in the third grade and over the past few years I've been watching the expansion of commercial business into her school. The schools in my city are becoming dependent upon boxtops and shopping points. It has gotten to the point that atleast bi-weekly we receive notices(ads) in with her homework encouraging us to shop at this location or that so that we can gain "points" for the school. On top of that just this week my daughter brought home a little booklet that we're supposed to fill with quarters so that we can start a savings account for her at a particular bank and of course the school itself takes care of it all and we just send in the money. Why on earth would I want to encourage my child to put money in a savings account in America? If I want her to save it certainly WON"T be in a savings account.
My point is that the school is getting so dependent upon these businesses and less dependent on the local government. This results in the local government getting accustomed to the schools not needing money.
It seems to me obvious that eventually this is going to lead to a scenario where private business is interfering with the schools curriculum(if it hasn't already) and the schools will be forced to comply as the local government no longer has the money available to fund the school.
Am I being irrational here?
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,294
0
76
Personally I encourage more private/school relationships and partnerships. It's usually a win-win. Oh I'm sure there could be minor issues, mostly in extreme or isolated cases.

It makes more sense in secondary grades rather than K-6 though.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,950
0
76
>_< I am sorry, but there was a time when all you needed to teach was a book and a chalkboard. Perhaps some pencils and paper. No technology necessary!

I really don't think all of this new crap really helps. It just hinders.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,519
165
106
After seeing the farce that is Channel One (The owner's name says it all: Alloy Media and Marketing) I'm fully in agreement with Perry. It's too damn tempting to businesses, a fully captive & receptive audience generally incapable of filtering out advertising; indoctrination of youth by businesses at school. The needs of schools shouldn't be used to exploit the fact that students are captive audiences while in said schools.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
WTF, Perry, weren't you a paulbot? There should be no tax money for schools. Business funding it is the way it should be. Right?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: Nebor
WTF, Perry, weren't you a paulbot? There should be no tax money for schools. Business funding it is the way it should be. Right?
Right, because the federal government enforcing a nationwide one-size-fits-all education system is exactly like a city having a school. :roll:

Jesus people around here can be fucking imbeciles.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,365
1
0
US is trillions in debt and keep on borrowing on and on. Crappy education for American students don't grow on trees you know.
 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,358
0
71
Originally posted by: Nebor
WTF, Perry, weren't you a paulbot? There should be no tax money for schools. Business funding it is the way it should be. Right?
Wassamatter my views don't fit into your little box? Some people see the world in more than black and white.
 
May 16, 2000
13,529
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No, you're definitely not alone. In my experience everything privatized gets worse. At least when it's government run the goal is humanitarian. Once business takes over then you lose that to greed.

The last thing we need is encouragement to kids to be consumers, capitalists, etc.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,921
3
0
This should be the least of your concerns for your daughter. At my high school, my freshman year they instituted a new math program. No longer Algebra 1, 2, 3, Calculus, etc. We switched to the "Integrated Math" program, which focused more on problem solving than raw equation solving.

What Integrated Math really was was 1-2 question per-day homework assignments, a relief from the previous 30-40 I'd had in middle school and expected in high school. Granted the questions were often a bit more complex than any of those 30-40 I'd had previously, but overall it was easier work.Compounding the easiness was my math teacher giving us the answers to the assignment every day before turning it in. "What an idiot!" I thought. Didn't he realize we would just copy the assignment down from what he wrote and turn that in? He'd even see us all doing it, and never consider it cheating. So there my freshman year went, never learning a thing and copying every assignment down from the board. Our class time consisted of "group sessions" which were more or less me and my five friends (and other students with their five friends) sitting around bullshitting for an hour.

So then the next year of Integrated Math came along, and this teacher was just as stupid! He was giving us all the answers. This continued through year 3. 3 full years of essentially useless math education, all of the teachers being "stupid" enough to give us the answers beforehand. It took me three years to realize they weren't stupid, they were making sure we passed. Sure I passed, but as someone who was once the top of his class in math ended up going to college not even being able to get into pre-calculus.

Yes I could have made an independent effort to learn. Yes, in the end it is my responsibility for not learning math. But the system is set up in such a way that many kids will fail as I did, because we were 14 year old idiots who had a lazy streak when offered the chance. My main point here is that public schools are corrupt and the best you can hope for your child is that she plays along to get a good enough GPA to get her to a good college.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
The government already interferes with the school's curriculum, and don't be so silly to think that the schools will do with less gov money; they'll continue to get more and more each year while also getting some from businesses. Schools are ever-thirsty for money. I basically hate the public school system. We live in a well above-average school zone now and we're nonetheless going to keep a close eye on how our kids do in scool, ever ready to bring them to a private one if necessary. I don't think the government should be educating all kids. I am not sure how the west has gotten to the point where it lets government educate almost all kids. It seems a silly question, doesn't it? We're so used to it by now that most of us don't even question it.

Farang's experience is interesting. Most kids do "okay" in public schools, but there is a lot of sh*t like he noticed. Also an incredibly thick bureaucratic layer. I pay over $4k/year in school taxes where I live and if I have a problem at a school, what power will I have? They're a unionized mess.
At least when it's government run the goal is humanitarian.
That is just straight up hilarious, I'm sorry but it is. If they are so humanitarian why is it that school unions fight tooth and nail when they can to force kids into their school systems, whether it's adding asinine new laws against home schooling or resisting private schools in the area. Make no mistake, public education is big business for those involved. They have a legalized monopoly and will fight to protect it and expand it with the fury of any private business, except this one has the law behind it to give it special powers.

Each kid in my area costs $10-15k/year in various government funds for his education. If I send a child to a private school it's well under $10k/year and yet the education is better (and I'm not considering the better environment--merely the class size and rigor of the curriculum). Do we see a problem here, folks?
 

Rio Rebel

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,195
0
0
GREAT THREAD.

Yes, I too am very concerned about this. My daughter just started Kindergarten this year, and already she's been asked to take part in three different solicitation initiatives. And we also get flooded with business literature from the school - selling books, crafts, any number of things. God help us when she gets older, and is then pressured harder to participate.

Someone has to slow this down, or the schools will spend more time fund-raising than they do educating.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Yes.

On pbs (ya I know, antichrist liberals) there was a doc. about getting kids to school in africa. Turns out a lot didn't go since there was no or bad water at the schools. So some wealthy business exec looking to become a philanthropist teamed up with a company that is installing pumps at many schools. These pumps are human powered - gives the kids something to burn off energy on. Turns out some of the cost is subsidized by advertising on the billboard which accompanies each pump.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
0
Originally posted by: babylon5
US is trillions in debt and keep on borrowing on and on. Crappy education for American students don't grow on trees you know.
The money has to be spent regardless. Are you implying that if governments spend less on schools, private business will take up the slack? If they have no problem giving that funding, why would they have a problem with the taxes?
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
76
Schools are inherent money pits. Don't encourage the spending in the first place.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
I think these school fund drives are stupid. Heaven forbid that the child actually be doing some actual homework in their spare time. Parents should take that garbage to the principal and tell the principal to kiss your ask me nor more questions. If they spent less on Psycho doctors and socialogists maybe they could afford a few books. It might be easier and more cost effective just to ask parents to donate their own money. It would be a lot easier than stressing out the kids trying to sell 2 pagaes of junk to people that dont really want to buy it, only to get a percentage of the profits. It is not cost effective, and it is too much time consuming for the parents.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
My wife and I had a meeting with one of our daughter's teachers last year. She remarked that she was utterly shocked because we were the first parents that she had ever encountered in her 15+ years of teaching that said that their child was NOT getting enough work and the work that she was getting was too easy.

Our experiences have all centered around this topic. We are inundated with crappy curriculum that only teaches the kiddies enough to pass the stupid TACS (TX version of NCLB requirements) and the school is dragging its feet about getting our daughters into their PACE program (program designed to allow kids to progress at their own pace in various topics so that they don't sit around bored as crap all day doing work that they were capable of doing years ago).

If you look at the countries that are leading the world in competency testing, they are all from countries that the govt has instituted very strict guidelines and has funded them so that they are able to meet the guidelines. Unlike the US where we set the guidelines and then tell the schools that they are getting their funding cut. It's no wonder that we only rank 18th out of the 24 top national education rankings.

http://kapio.kcc.hawaii.edu/upload/fullnews.php?id=52

Edit: I almost forget to mention that we hate the fund raising aspect of schools these days. All of the schools seem to have this stupid attitude of selling candy, candles, etc. and getting the tiniest of percentages from those sells instead of doing the tried and true bake sale, car wash, students on the side of the road or other type activity where they get ALL of the money instead of 5%.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,915
0
0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
My wife and I had a meeting with one of our daughter's teachers last year. She remarked that she was utterly shocked because we were the first parents that she had ever encountered in her 15+ years of teaching that said that their child was NOT getting enough work and the work that she was getting was too easy.

Our experiences have all centered around this topic. We are inundated with crappy curriculum that only teaches the kiddies enough to pass the stupid TACS (TX version of NCLB requirements) and the school is dragging its feet about getting our daughters into their PACE program (program designed to allow kids to progress at their own pace in various topics so that they don't sit around bored as crap all day doing work that they were capable of doing years ago).

If you look at the countries that are leading the world in competency testing, they are all from countries that the govt has instituted very strict guidelines and has funded them so that they are able to meet the guidelines. Unlike the US where we set the guidelines and then tell the schools that they are getting their funding cut. It's no wonder that we only rank 18th out of the 24 top national education rankings.

http://kapio.kcc.hawaii.edu/upload/fullnews.php?id=52

Edit: I almost forget to mention that we hate the fund raising aspect of schools these days. All of the schools seem to have this stupid attitude of selling candy, candles, etc. and getting the tiniest of percentages from those sells instead of doing the tried and true bake sale, car wash, students on the side of the road or other type activity where they get ALL of the money instead of 5%.
Thats what I experienced in HS. I will be sending my kids to a private school. THe Public School System is a joke.
 

Rio Rebel

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,195
0
0
The question of privatized education is a side issue.

The OP is talking about all the commercialization of public schools, through fund-raisers, sales, and other money-making enterprizes.

Schools are to educate, and IMO these initiatives are taking a large amount of focus off of that goal. We need to get re-focused, and we also need to stop expecting our students to be a free sales force for any new idea that comes along in the schools.
 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,358
0
71
It seems to me that we're getting tangled up in the socialism/capitalism argument when what we should really be asking is how did our schools function successfully in the past? What were American schools doing 50 years ago when we were the creme of the crop of education around the globe that we aren't doing now?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: Perry404
It seems to me that we're getting tangled up in the socialism/capitalism argument when what we should really be asking is how did our schools function successfully in the past? What were American schools doing 50 years ago when we were the creme of the crop of education around the globe that we aren't doing now?
Actually, what you're looking for is corporatism, the unholy marriage of business to government where the search for profit is given the power of force.

Government has it's place, business has it's place, but they need to remain separate. When government chooses the victors in a capitalist system, it becomes profitable to control the government, which we see daily as laws are bought and sold.
 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,358
0
71
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Perry404
It seems to me that we're getting tangled up in the socialism/capitalism argument when what we should really be asking is how did our schools function successfully in the past? What were American schools doing 50 years ago when we were the creme of the crop of education around the globe that we aren't doing now?
Actually, what you're looking for is corporatism, the unholy marriage of business to government where the search for profit is given the power of force.

Government has it's place, business has it's place, but they need to remain separate. When government chooses the victors in a capitalist system, it becomes profitable to control the government, which we see daily as laws are bought and sold.
You're correct corporatism is a better word.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
76
Kick the corporatism out, starve the schools. Too much money - especially federal money - is focused on kids when society has far bigger needs right now.

Quite frankly the feds need to get out of education and let the states handle it. That includes federal subsidies in meals and all of those other programs they use to bully schools into adding their curriculums. Schools could do much better if they didn't have to cater to federal social welfare programs in over half of their class time.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,809
2,731
136
I think one big problem with schools nowadays is how much "technology" they put into all the rooms. I graduated high school in '01, so not that long ago. I made it through all of elementary with my school having one computer lab and a couple computers in the library. In middle school there were two computers labs and about 10 computers in the library. About the same in HS. Now every damn class room has computers in it, every school has a handful of labs with newer computers. Hell, my wife used to tutor 5th graders at an inner city school and they had a full set of PDAs for every student in the class, WTF? And they taught them to do math on the PDAs.

Also before high school, if we wanted to watch a movie in class they had to bring in a projector or TV on a cart. Now every single room has a TV, VCR and DVD player.

It is ridiculous. Not to mention just the cost of getting the equipment in the first place, but now they have to pay a ton of IT people to manage it. It also hurts the teaching process, IMHO, kids need to do Math by hand not on a calculator a PDA. I got all the way through college Differential Equations and Vector Calc without using my calculator for anything more than trig functions and logs, but 5th graders need PDAs to do division? WTF
 

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