Is an oil free future even possible with current and forseeable future technology?

[desy]

I don't think that's fair, humans tend to be reactive, so planning 100yrs down the road isn't our strong suite
The oil and gas industry is a economically viable alternative to other technologies and is going to be so until demands outstrips production, probably what we are approaching now.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

To be "oil free" 100 years ago would've involved some INSIGHT amd FORESIGHT by people.

Now its 2010 and there are still people who believe oil is plenty and global warming doesn't exist......so....

Uh, hello? When did we start using oil? 150ish years ago? Hell, we barely had "cars" 100 years ago and many/most ran on ethanol.

 

[bfdd]

define "plenty". please cite sources.
(i can think of 2 or 3)

I'm not just talking stock cars though. With 100k budget damn near ANY car can run 12s 1/4 and there are plenty of lower end sports cars you can spend a few thousand on and have them down into the low 11's high 10's. The performance of the Tesla isn't that impressive when compared to what you can do with a lot of other cars.

 

[Elfear]

Yes, and its performance figures easily attest it's a sports car.

I think you're missing the point. Yes, the performance figures are pretty good and easily attest to the Tesla being a sports car. The problem is the price. You can get a comparable IC-powered sports car for much less. A Tesla isn't like a Ferrari or Lambo that have top-of-the-line interiors and name recognition. The only thing Tesla has going for it is that it's an EV. It's pretty sweet but not for $120-150k. The crux of the arguement was that there really aren't any compelling EVs out there for car enthusiasts.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I'm not just talking stock cars though. With 100k budget damn near ANY car can run 12s 1/4 and there are plenty of lower end sports cars you can spend a few thousand on and have them down into the low 11's high 10's. The performance of the Tesla isn't that impressive when compared to what you can do with a lot of other cars.

maintains full manufacturer warranty.
anyone can attach a rocket to a tricycle to make it run in the 9's.

 

[xj0hnx]

maintains full manufacturer warranty.
anyone can attach a rocket to a tricycle to make it run in the 9's.

Elfear named a few, GT-R, Viper, a few Porsche's, there's a few out there.

 

[SickBeast]

To be "oil free" 100 years ago would've involved some INSIGHT amd FORESIGHT by people.

Now its 2010 and there are still people who believe oil is plenty and global warming doesn't exist......so....

Either that or it would have required GM to *not* systematically purchase every electric streetcar in America, and then hoarde the technology and stifle innovation.

 

[Cogman]

Right now, today, I don't think we could totally get away from fossil fuels. With the help of looser regulations on the nuclear industry, the power grid could pretty much break away from fossil fuels. However, the transportation network would have a much harder problem.

Battery tech, right now, sucks. There isn't any way around it. We need better batter tech which has a higher energy density and lower weight. The motor is about as good as it is going to get (90-99% efficient at higher output) The only thing that would make it better is to make it lighter. (not too likely).

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Elfear named a few, GT-R, Viper, a few Porsche's, there's a few out there.

no porsche under $100k is running 12's, sorry.
those were the 3. viper/vette/gtr.

 

[xj0hnx]

no porsche under $100k is running 12's, sorry.

The 911 GT3 does better and are about $115,000, and I'm pretty sure the Targa 4S breaks high 12's if not than low 13's for right at $104,000ish. That's just a quick search, pretty sure if I put effort into it I could find a model that hits 12.99 at <$100,000.

 

[Vic]

Sorry Vic but I think plenty of car enthusiasts would beg to differ. Every electric car out there, including the Tesla, is rather boring and underperforming compared to gasoline-powered sports cars. For the price of a Tesla ($109k MSRP) you can get some pretty incredible cars that will trounce the Tesla in just about every test there is. The extreme low-end torque production is a pretty cool feature of electric motors but it doesn't seem to translate into awesome acceleration times. Maybe in the future it will (keeping my fingers crossed).

Please don't misinterpret my post as anti-clean energy. The fact that we'll run out of oil one day is undisputed. I think R&D into alternatives is a necessity. But I don't see a whole lot of hope for car enthusiasts. The options available now are like plain tofu patties when you're used to eating steak.

Once the issues with battery technology are finally resolved, and electric cars are competitive with gasoline cars with regards to cruising range, refueling time, and cost, then everyone will drive electric cars.

and

A practical electric car would blow the doors off any comparable gasoline car.

There's no doubt in my mind that electric cars are not competitive with gas or diesel right now. They're simply not. The battery technology simply doesn't exist at this time to make it competitive, especially not it terms of cost. But it will. And when it does, the now completely mature technology of ICE's will in the not-so-distant future become like we how think of steam engines today. All that it is required is the ability to store electrical energy as densely as gasoline stores chemical energy. Well, actually we only need to do a quarter as much, given how inefficient gas engines are.

All the proof that anyone should ever need to know that electric motors are superior to gas engines is that it takes an electric motor to start a gas engine.

I guess what I am saying is that gas engines aren't getter any faster or cheaper. In fact, I believe this is their final hey-day. And it's sad fact too, that just about everything I love about gas engines is just about everything why electric is superior. Ah well, I am sure men of 100 years ago felt the same way about their horses.

And to greenies: don't think that electric cars are quite so green. Efficiency increases consumption. When we are more efficient, we will consume more, and be that much wealthier in the process.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

The 911 GT3 does better and are about $115,000, and I'm pretty sure the Targa 4S breaks high 12's if not than low 13's for right at $104,000ish. That's just a quick search, pretty sure if I put effort into it I could find a model that hits 12.99 at <$100,000.

please do, aside from the 3 i already named.

 

[xj0hnx]

please do, aside from the 3 i already named.

Why? I already posted three Porsche that run in the 12's that are right at $100,000 or just slightly above.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Why? I already posted three Porsche that run in the 12's that are right at $100,000 or just slightly above.

the criteria was under $100k, under 4s to 60mph, in the 12's for the 1/4 mi.

 

[bfdd]

maintains full manufacturer warranty.
anyone can attach a rocket to a tricycle to make it run in the 9's.

There are still plenty of cars where you can maintain your full manufacturer warranty while pushing them below 12s 1/4s. It doesn't take a whole lot on some cars. Hell certain year Mustang Cobras could hit low 11's just putting on slicks.

 

[bfdd]

The 911 GT3 does better and are about $115,000, and I'm pretty sure the Targa 4S breaks high 12's if not than low 13's for right at $104,000ish. That's just a quick search, pretty sure if I put effort into it I could find a model that hits 12.99 at <$100,000.

Any car that can hit low 13s, can hit high 12s with very little modification. Things that would still be under warranty for most cars. Like exhaust, tires, lighter wheels or even just leaning out the fuel and using a higher octane in some vehicles is enough.

Hitting sub 4 second 0-60 time though is a different beast. Electric motors have better on demand torque.

 

[xj0hnx]

the criteria was under $100k, under 4s to 60mph, in the 12's for the 1/4 mi.

I really don't care, and if someone has $100,000 to spend on a car than $4000 more probably isn't going to be a deal breaker. I think the point is that there are cars out there that will do it. IMO spending $100,000 on a car to be able to hit 12 sec 1/4 and a 4 sec 0-60 just isn't impressive.

Any car that can hit low 13s, can hit high 12s with very little modification. Things that would still be under warranty for most cars. Like exhaust, tires, lighter wheels or even just leaning out the fuel and using a higher octane in some vehicles is enough.

Well some of those may or may not, it would depend on where in the power band the modifications gained. Swapping the street tires for a semi street tire, or racing slick would help. The higher octane thing though ... :\

 

[ModestGamer]

Well, USA can for example stop using on average twice as much oil per person compared to EU (its easy to do - just create tax of 3$ per gallon ).

It also wouldnt hurt USA to create good mass transport system like what we have in EU.

Have you seen the size of the USA on a scaled map compared to the EU. Ahh just not fucking possiable.

Otherwise I agree with you.

BTW electric cars with/gas backup engines are most likely going to be the cogeneration hybrids that bridge the gap while we look and move to better ways to generate electricity.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Any car that can hit low 13s, can hit high 12s with very little modification. Things that would still be under warranty for most cars. Like exhaust, tires, lighter wheels or even just leaning out the fuel and using a higher octane in some vehicles is enough.

Hitting sub 4 second 0-60 time though is a different beast. Electric motors have better on demand torque.

there's no point in arguing this anymore if you're going to start modding cars and then bend the criteria.
fact is, there are not that many cars under $100k with that kind of performance.

 

[desy]

In Europe my cousin has a diesel Yaris
Why can't I have that car? I'd like a diesel just not a VW since I mostly HW drive

 

[PingSpike]

Its possible, but it will not happen. A stupid populace combined with a government that is equal parts short-sighted, incompetent and corrupt will ensure any significant changes will be plowed under.

 

[PingSpike]

If everyone went to electric cars now it wouldn't work. We don't and can't have enough power plants anytime soon . Most power plants are 25+ years old and building a new one takes about 20 years of planning. Add to that people don't want them near them and nuclear power in this country is a joke compared to places like France. Until the power grid and power plants change in the USA , electric cars are a pipe dream.

Best designed electric cars use about 12KW per hour at 55-60MPH. Add 12KW power consumption to every home now that has a gas powered car and you will see how impossible it really is right now. Low average of 10K miles per year per car = 2000KW of power per car. 2000KW is more than a home uses in a month. Multiply that times the number of cars to replace and we would need another 25-30 power plants , big ones, to power them.

Why does some one always point this out? Because they actually think everyone is going to buy a new electric car tomorrow? It would take decades before the entire fleet of autos were replaced.

 

[BassBomb]

its possible, it would just cost far too much money than looking and acquiring more oil

 

[bullbert]

Why does some one always point this out? Because they actually think everyone is going to buy a new electric car tomorrow? It would take decades before the entire fleet of autos were replaced.

And the pollution caused by the manufacture, maintenance, and disposal over those decades will surely cause more deaths from cancer (and other fatal deceases) than the alternatives. Amazing how quickly society forgets the toxic sites created in isolated pockets of America caused by the silicon boom of the mid 20th century. Now, multiply the number of and spread the distribution of these sites all over America.

As an EE, I love the tech, but loath the toxic byproducts.