Is an armament sickening U.S. soldiers?

[kage69]

I think the cause of these ailments is more likely to be linked to the the massive amount of petrocarbons released into the environment when Saddam lit the wells up. Also, Iraqi disposal of toxic substances and WMD was no where near safe and proficient as Western methods. Crude and hasty disposal of things like sarin and VX, be it dousing it with gas or just burying it in dirt, could well be to blame for a host of neurological and respiratory disorders our guys have come down with.

I don't think Bush can get blamed so much in this one. But feel free to blame him and Christine Whitman for flipping the bird to the World Trade Center rescue workers, who now have afflictions of their own - and that's in addition to getting the cold shoulder from the government over it.


Edit: I wouldn't be surprised at all to see conclusive proof that DU is a health threat to those in constant contact with it. Look at lead, the material DU replaces on specialty bullets - it's not healthy at all, especially if you inhale it like at an indoor range. Lead doesn't have a risky half-life either, but it's far from innert to humans, especially the young.

 

[LunarRay]

"Early scientific studies usually found no link between depleted uranium and cancer, and sometimes found no link with increases in the rate of birth defects, but newer studies have and offered explanation of birth defect links. There is no direct proof that uranium causes birth defects in humans, but it induces them in several other species of mammals, and human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU"

Well this site is fairly good and un biased...

I'm not sure what that paragraph really means but is has some linkage that may be of import..

edit: ya gotta go down to 'health concerns' and it is the 5th paragraph down under that heading...

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
"Early scientific studies usually found no link between depleted uranium and cancer, and sometimes found no link with increases in the rate of birth defects, but newer studies have and offered explanation of birth defect links. There is no direct proof that uranium causes birth defects in humans, but it induces them in several other species of mammals, and human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU"

Well this site is fairly good and un biased...

I'm not sure what that paragraph really means but is has some linkage that may be of import..

edit: ya gotta go down to 'health concerns' and it is the 5th paragraph down under that heading...

Good link.

It didn't link to any of the studies it was referring to in your highlighted section but I think I would be safe to ASSume (I know...) that in the animal studies the test subjects were subjected to unrealistic exposure levels of DU. It is common in animal testing to indrease exposure to a substance until adverse effects are observed in an effort to determine how much is too much.

Obviously without any knowledge of the testing it's impossible to make a judegement. It would nbe interesting to see some information on that though.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: LunarRay
"Early scientific studies usually found no link between depleted uranium and cancer, and sometimes found no link with increases in the rate of birth defects, but newer studies have and offered explanation of birth defect links. There is no direct proof that uranium causes birth defects in humans, but it induces them in several other species of mammals, and human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU"

Well this site is fairly good and un biased...

I'm not sure what that paragraph really means but is has some linkage that may be of import..

edit: ya gotta go down to 'health concerns' and it is the 5th paragraph down under that heading...

Good link.

It didn't link to any of the studies it was referring to in your highlighted section but I think I would be safe to ASSume (I know...) that in the animal studies the test subjects were subjected to unrealistic exposure levels of DU. It is common in animal testing to indrease exposure to a substance until adverse effects are observed in an effort to determine how much is too much.

Obviously without any knowledge of the testing it's impossible to make a judegement. It would nbe interesting to see some information on that though.

further toward the bottom are the footnotes that accompany the body of the statements.. Like my footnoted endevors.. or the Warren Commission's, I've not been able to locate the testing criteria...Ill edit this again if I can find the actual quantified numbers

My grandson reading this site came in and said to me... Gramps .. milk is a hazard because I made the rat drink 5 gallons and it exploded...

 

[alchemize]

I'll raise you with a link from the World Health Organization (who I'm sure is mind controlled by the zionists and trilateral commission):

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

as well as a study by the WHO on DU in Kosovo: Link

And perhaps the EU is in on the conspiracy also? Link

It's mildly radioactive, therefore has some health risks associated with it like any radioactive substance. Of course, so is Radon Gas, which is prevelant in basements througout the world (including my own, at 4.1 pCi/L which unfortunately I'm breathing in right now) depending on the soils.

What I do see a correlation in, is the propaganda spewed by bald-faced liars like "Straighttalker", the OP, and PrinceofWands, prodded on by muckraking journalists like this along with the slew of tinfoil websites.

You'll find them in every consipiracy theory thread in the forum, posting lies and misleading information. Never a peer-reviewed study, never a credible source. What's really funny and ironic is these morons prance around calling us the "blind", thinking they've discovered some hidden truths. When really they've just created a new religion for themselves.

I feel badly for any veteran that has any illness. I condone and applaud any and all reasonable investigations into these illnesses, and of DU itself. But there's no evidence to this point - just rumor, innuendo, and far-left wing conspiracy theories.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

It is a little curious that DOD could only find 32 guys for their DU study.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: LunarRay
"Early scientific studies usually found no link between depleted uranium and cancer, and sometimes found no link with increases in the rate of birth defects, but newer studies have and offered explanation of birth defect links. There is no direct proof that uranium causes birth defects in humans, but it induces them in several other species of mammals, and human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU"

Well this site is fairly good and un biased...

I'm not sure what that paragraph really means but is has some linkage that may be of import..

edit: ya gotta go down to 'health concerns' and it is the 5th paragraph down under that heading...

Good link.

It didn't link to any of the studies it was referring to in your highlighted section but I think I would be safe to ASSume (I know...) that in the animal studies the test subjects were subjected to unrealistic exposure levels of DU. It is common in animal testing to indrease exposure to a substance until adverse effects are observed in an effort to determine how much is too much.

Obviously without any knowledge of the testing it's impossible to make a judegement. It would nbe interesting to see some information on that though.

further toward the bottom are the footnotes that accompany the body of the statements.. Like my footnoted endevors.. or the Warren Commission's, I've not been able to locate the testing criteria...Ill edit this again if I can find the actual quantified numbers

My grandson reading this site came in and said to me... Gramps .. milk is a hazard because I made the rat drink 5 gallons and it exploded...

Ahahahahahahahahahahah... From the mouths of babes... :laugh:
That is exactly what this thread needed... innocent common sense.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It is a little curious that DOD could only find 32 guys for their DU study.

Because there were only 33 guys involved in friendly fire DU incidents? And it was expanded by another 29.

An additional 29 of the friendly-fire victims were added to the follow-up program in 1999. In 1998, the scope of the program was expanded to include Gulf War veterans who may have been exposed to DU through close contact with DU munitions, inhalation of smoke containing DU particulate during a fire at the Doha depot, or by entering or salvaging vehicles or bunkers that were hit with DU projectiles. T

Source


Here's a 1997 study showing "no link between birth defects and gulf deployment".
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/news/na_med_16jun.htm
Published in NEJM but the link is bad in the article


Here's an article debunking the "67% birth defect rate":

http://www.ntanet.net/traprock.html

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'll raise you with a link from the World Health Organization (who I'm sure is mind controlled by the zionists and trilateral commission):

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

as well as a study by the WHO on DU in Kosovo: Link

It's mildly radioactive, therefore has some health risks associated with it like any radioactive substance. Of course, so is Radon Gas, which is prevelant in basements througout the world (including my own, at 4.1 pCi/L which unfortunately I'm breathing in right now) depending on the soils.

What I do see a correlation in, is the propaganda spewed by bald-faced liars like "Straighttalker", the OP, and PrinceofWands, prodded on by muckraking journalists like this along with the slew of tinfoil websites.

You'll find them in every consipiracy theory thread in the forum, posting lies and misleading information. Never a peer-reviewed study, never a credible source. What's really funny and ironic is these morons prance around calling us the "blind", thinking they've discovered some hidden truths. When really they've just created a new religion for themselves.

I feel badly for any veteran that has any illness. I condone and applaud any and all reasonable investigations into these illnesses, and of DU itself. But there's no evidence to this point - just rumor, innuendo, and far-left wing conspiracy theories.

I think the studies that I'm looking at are not all that focused on radioactivity but that is an issue. It is to do with what effect the itty bitty bits can do to the RNA and DNA etc. because it is like lead and toxic. So I suppose we shouldn't use lead in bullets either... they are hazardous to the health too traveling at 1100 fps.. Anyhow, it is all peer reviewed stuff and supportive of the argument...

My link is better than your link.. hehehehhehe ok.. So who do you trust.. or better still since no matter what munitions we use we and them are gonna get sick maybe.. lets just drop the stuff from a plane cuz the collateral damage is gonna be the same but it won't be us getting sick..

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It is a little curious that DOD could only find 32 guys for their DU study.

BBD... the rest were sick with DU poisoning and couldn't attend the study..

 

[kage69]

So I suppose we shouldn't use lead in bullets either... they are hazardous to the health too traveling at 1100 fps..

Which is why we're replacing it with tungsten I believe. Frangible rounds are all the rave now too, although I don't think the military is allowed to use them. With a high percentage of copper, these rounds actually fertilize the ground (assuming they're not used in an indoor range anyway). They actually clean the barrel as they leave it too!

 

[straightalker]

AMERICAN GULF WAR VETERANS ASSOCIATION

Depleted Uranium

US ARMY TRAINING VIDEO about DU

The moles on this thread prattling on about DU being harmless is the last thing a GulfWar veteran needs. Our veterans need truth not lies. The USA Government lied about Agent Orange and they're lying about DU's health risks just the same.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james29.htm

"Since 1943 the military has been aware of the extreme toxicity of uranium as a gas. A Oct 30, 1943 memo from Manhattan Project physicist James B. Conant to Brig. General L.B. Abrams stated that as a gas warfare instrument the radioactive material would be ground into microscopic particles forming dust and smoke and could be distributed by ground fired projectiles, land vehicles or aerial bombs. In this form it would be inhaled by personnel. They estimated that one millionth of a gram would be fatal. There are no known methods of treatment for such casualties.

The depleted uranium DU was also recommended as a permanent terrain contaminant which could be used to destroy populations by contaminating water supplies and agricultural land with radioactive dust. Current estimates suggest that the damaged soil in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan will need four and a half billion years to recover from the radioactive effect of DU.

Some of the uranium from shells vaporizes into particles measuring 1/10 of a micron. These particles enter the atmosphere and later fall to the ground with rain. Radioactive debris has been found at both the North and South Poles. In gaseous form the chemically toxic and radioactive uranium easily enters the body through the skin or when inhaled into the lungs. Clothing and gas masks are easily penetrated. Large missiles and bombs can disperse nearly 100 % of the DU into the atmosphere whereas only 30 % of a tank shell disperses when fired. Any soldier or civilian who breathes this gas has a permanent dose of radioactive uranium RAU.

Uranium is quite dense so it is ideal for penetrating armor. The radioactive uranium is shaped into a penetrating rod 18 inches long and ¾ inch in diameter. When these shells are fired some of the uranium contacts air and explodes into flame (pyrophoric quality).

Scientists studying the biologic effects of radiation in the 1960s reported that radioactive uranium targets the DNA. Marion Fulk, a nuclear physical chemist, who had worked for both the Manhattan project and the Livermore Nuclear Weapon Lab interprets the new and rapid development of malignancies in soldiers from the 2003 war as ?spectacular and a matter of concern.? She states ?This is the perfect weapon (DU) for killing lots of people.?

There are three effects of depleted uranium on biologic systems ?radiation, chemical and particulate. The particulate effect of nano-sized particles is the most important of these three. This appears immediately after exposure and targets the master code of DNA. Simply stated depleted uranium ?trashes the body.? The DNA damage is so severe these patients develop multiple simultaneous cancers from different causes. This new syndrome has never been reported before and is unique to internal depleted uranium exposure. Such patients were seen in civilians in Yugoslavia after NATO bombing using DU bombs. There is currently an epidemic of cancer in Iraqi children."

...next.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: straightalker
AMERICAN GULF WAR VETERANS ASSOCIATION

Depleted Uranium

US ARMY TRAINING VIDEO about DU

The moles on this thread prattling on about DU being harmless is the last thing a GulfWar veteran needs. Our veterans need truth not lies. The USA Government lied about Agent Orange and they're lying about DU's health risks just the same.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james29.htm

"Since 1943 the military has been aware of the extreme toxicity of uranium as a gas. A Oct 30, 1943 memo from Manhattan Project physicist James B. Conant to Brig. General L.B. Abrams stated that as a gas warfare instrument the radioactive material would be ground into microscopic particles forming dust and smoke and could be distributed by ground fired projectiles, land vehicles or aerial bombs. In this form it would be inhaled by personnel. They estimated that one millionth of a gram would be fatal. There are no known methods of treatment for such casualties.

The depleted uranium DU was also recommended as a permanent terrain contaminant which could be used to destroy populations by contaminating water supplies and agricultural land with radioactive dust. Current estimates suggest that the damaged soil in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan will need four and a half billion years to recover from the radioactive effect of DU.

Some of the uranium from shells vaporizes into particles measuring 1/10 of a micron. These particles enter the atmosphere and later fall to the ground with rain. Radioactive debris has been found at both the North and South Poles. In gaseous form the chemically toxic and radioactive uranium easily enters the body through the skin or when inhaled into the lungs. Clothing and gas masks are easily penetrated. Large missiles and bombs can disperse nearly 100 % of the DU into the atmosphere whereas only 30 % of a tank shell disperses when fired. Any soldier or civilian who breathes this gas has a permanent dose of radioactive uranium RAU.

Uranium is quite dense so it is ideal for penetrating armor. The radioactive uranium is shaped into a penetrating rod 18 inches long and ¾ inch in diameter. When these shells are fired some of the uranium contacts air and explodes into flame (pyrophoric quality).

Scientists studying the biologic effects of radiation in the 1960s reported that radioactive uranium targets the DNA. Marion Fulk, a nuclear physical chemist, who had worked for both the Manhattan project and the Livermore Nuclear Weapon Lab interprets the new and rapid development of malignancies in soldiers from the 2003 war as ?spectacular and a matter of concern.? She states ?This is the perfect weapon (DU) for killing lots of people.?

There are three effects of depleted uranium on biologic systems ?radiation, chemical and particulate. The particulate effect of nano-sized particles is the most important of these three. This appears immediately after exposure and targets the master code of DNA. Simply stated depleted uranium ?trashes the body.? The DNA damage is so severe these patients develop multiple simultaneous cancers from different causes. This new syndrome has never been reported before and is unique to internal depleted uranium exposure. Such patients were seen in civilians in Yugoslavia after NATO bombing using DU bombs. There is currently an epidemic of cancer in Iraqi children."

...next.

That website is hilarious. Howenstine is a grade A quack. Some of the statements quoted above are simply non-sensical or wrong (e.g "When these shells are fired some of the uranium contacts air and explodes into flame (pyrophoric quality)"), and none are backed up by citations.

The whole thing about "radioactive DU" is pretty pretty ridiculous if you understand the very basic principles of radioactivity and what a very very long half life means.

 

[LunarRay]

It seems the focus is on radioactivity... DU has other properties that enable it to do damage to life forms.. as does lead and asbestos etc...
My reading and links above indicate a nexus between DU and birth defects in mammals. Some other health issues are linked as well...

I'm not sure if there is much concern if one is far enough away from airborne particulates which are generated during the meeting events that occur when a DU munition is used.. I think it is the Ingested via lungs or via shrapnel or consumed via some 'tainted' substance that causes the problems..

Use bombers to drop the stuff and keep more that 26 miles away as the empirical evidence shows the itty bitty bits can travel... theoretically they can travel much further..