Is a snake a service animal?

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
How far are we gonna stretch this people? :confused:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.c...9/10/16/2010080422.jpg


Debate grows over what defines a service animal

A service snake's days as a seizure-alert animal may end as the Department of Justice once again tries to define what animals provide a legitimate service to the disabled.



When Daniel Greene has a seizure coming on, he says a hug can help stop it.

As he walks through the small Agate Store near Shelton, a nearly 5-foot boa constrictor coiled around his neck, even a customer walking within a foot of him doesn't notice the snake. It's a different matter, however, at Burger King.

Greene, 46, approaches the counter, but the manager orders him and his snake off the property before he can place his order. Redrock the boa, Greene says angrily, is a service snake who alerts him to pending seizures by giving him a hug. The snake had been seeking the dark confines of Green's coat sleeve. At that moment, Redrock pulls his head out and stiffens.

"He's alerting me," Greene says. "I need to sit down." But instead, he walks across the parking lot toward a pet store, speaking comforting words to the snake and kissing its head.

As a service snake, Redrock is protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). But the Department of Justice (DOJ) again is trying to define service animals, and Redrock may lose his status, which at least in theory allows him to accompany Greene into stores, restaurants, theaters and other public places.

The DOJ was overwhelmed with thousands of comments about service animals last year when it announced plans to modify the definition to exclude wild animals, including reptiles, rabbits, farm animals, amphibians, ferrets and rodents. The guidelines also would have eliminated as service animals those whose sole function is to provide emotional support, comfort, therapy, companionship, therapeutic benefits, or to promote emotional well-being.

The outcry was intense ? with some 4,500 messages, more response than has been received for any other DOJ topic in recent memory, spokesman Alejandro Miyar said. After President Obama took office, he asked that all proposed rule-making stop until new DOJ appointees could review the proposals. The new assistant attorney general for civil rights came on board Oct. 7.

"We are now in the process of reviewing the proposed ADA regulations and the public comments that the department received," Miyar said. "We anticipate that we will issue final ADA rules this year."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c...serviceanimals19m.html
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
A service snake's days as a seizure-alert animal

Absolutely not. I don't believe for a second that the snake is detecting a pending seizure.

When we looked in to seizure-alert dogs for my BIL, the local facility said the best use of the dogs come when the person is postictal and may need something to defend him from being robbed.

http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1084289240
truth is, seizure dogs can not be trained to ?alert? a person of an oncoming seizure. Therefore, a seizure dog may be useful in assisting a person during or after a seizure, but is not guaranteed to be able to ?alert? a person of an oncoming seizure.

So, WTF is a snake going to do when the guy is face down on a sidewalk with people standing around him. He can't even put a vest on it with words saying "My master has seizures, please don't rob him".
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,513
7,716
126
If it works, it works. The government has no business interfering with people's work animals.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,102
8,907
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Originally posted by: lxskllr
If it works, it works.

This, if it can be proven. Otherwise, catering to attention whore loonies is not my idea of good public policy.

 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,513
7,716
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Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: lxskllr
If it works, it works.

This, if it can be proven. Otherwise, catering to attention whore loonies is not my idea of good public policy.

I'd say it's up to the government to prove it doesn't work. They have the deep pockets, and they want to legislate against it. The burden of proof's on them AFAIC.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Who was the tool here that bitched about Wal Mart not cleaning up after their service dog after it took a dump in their store? The animal was for their kid, they refused to disclose the ailment, and acted like the rest of the world was supposed to take care of their service animal.

Aside from seeing eye dogs and monkeys for paraplegics I see very little practical use for service animals in modern society.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
30,895
12,399
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Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: lxskllr
If it works, it works.

This, if it can be proven. Otherwise, catering to attention whore loonies is not my idea of good public policy.

I'd say it's up to the government to prove it doesn't work. They have the deep pockets, and they want to legislate against it. The burden of proof's on them AFAIC.
the burden of proof is always on those making claims.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,512
220
106
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: lxskllr
If it works, it works.

This, if it can be proven. Otherwise, catering to attention whore loonies is not my idea of good public policy.

I'd say it's up to the government to prove it doesn't work. They have the deep pockets, and they want to legislate against it. The burden of proof's on them AFAIC.

You mean "we" have the deep pockets?

What organization trains snakes as service animals?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,513
7,716
126
Originally posted by: JLee


You mean "we" have the deep pockets?

What organization trains snakes as service animals?

If they don't want to spend the money, then don't legislate. Doing nothing is the free alternative. When you infringe on other's livelihoods it's up to the ruler to be certain proposed laws are fair, not the ruled.
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
A service snake's days as a seizure-alert animal

Absolutely not. I don't believe for a second that the snake is detecting a pending seizure.

When we looked in to seizure-alert dogs for my BIL, the local facility said the best use of the dogs come when the person is postictal and may need something to defend him from being robbed.

http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1084289240
truth is, seizure dogs can not be trained to ?alert? a person of an oncoming seizure. Therefore, a seizure dog may be useful in assisting a person during or after a seizure, but is not guaranteed to be able to ?alert? a person of an oncoming seizure.

So, WTF is a snake going to do when the guy is face down on a sidewalk with people standing around him. He can't even put a vest on it with words saying "My master has seizures, please don't rob him".

I dunno. If I see a bigass snake on your body while you are convulsing, I'd bet that most people would stay away.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,512
220
106
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: JLee


You mean "we" have the deep pockets?

What organization trains snakes as service animals?

If they don't want to spend the money, then don't legislate. Doing nothing is the free alternative. When you infringe on other's livelihoods it's up to the ruler to be certain proposed laws are fair, not the ruled.

What organization trains snakes as service animals?

When you infringe upon the rights of private property owners, it's up to you to demonstrate how you comply with law that forces them to allow your animal there. ;)
 

alevasseur14

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2005
1,760
1
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
use the drive thru at Burger King

problem solved

Pretty sure you get your license taken away if you have seizures.

I know in MN, after your first seizure, the doctor gives you forms to send into the DMV that revoke your license for 6 months. If you're clean after that you can drive again. Not sure what happens if you have another before or even after the 6 months is up.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
92
91
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: lxskllr
If it works, it works.

This, if it can be proven. Otherwise, catering to attention whore loonies is not my idea of good public policy.

I'd say it's up to the government to prove it doesn't work. They have the deep pockets, and they want to legislate against it. The burden of proof's on them AFAIC.
the burden of proof is always on those making claims.

I agree. They should have to prove the worth of this, not the government.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,513
7,716
126
Originally posted by: JLee

What organization trains snakes as service animals?

When you infringe upon the rights of private property owners, it's up to you to demonstrate how you comply with law that forces them to allow your animal there. ;)

Who trains animals to be emotional support animals? There's someone on this forum with that very thing. An animal that's close to it's owner may provide benefit without being trained. A snake could very well be able to discern the onset of a seizure. Reptiles are very sensitive animals, and could pick up on signals that all isn't right. If the animal/human pair are in tune with each other the snake can provide assistance to it's owner.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,513
7,716
126
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan


I agree. They should have to prove the worth of this, not the government.

Why should someone who may not have much money, have to spend thousands of dollars on scientific research to prevent the government from infringing on his/her life?
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan


I agree. They should have to prove the worth of this, not the government.

Why should someone who may not have much money, have to spend thousands of dollars on scientific research to prevent the government from infringing on his/her life?

Because what they're essentially demanding is for business owners and public to be forced to tolerate all kinds of animals in their establishments, without proof that they help anything.

In this guy's case, reptiles are natural carriers of salmonella. You think a restaurant owner is going to be happy about that?

Besides, no one's asking the individual to fund research on it. But whatever (if any) groups are insisting on it, they should be footing the bill or scouring peer-reviewed sources for work already done.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan


I agree. They should have to prove the worth of this, not the government.

Why should someone who may not have much money, have to spend thousands of dollars on scientific research to prevent the government from infringing on his/her life?
It has always been my belief that a service animal is a seeing eye dog. Anything beyond that is an abuse.

However, I understand that my view might be a bit behind the times, so I will take it this far: the government should approve such animals for service that are not disruptive towards the general public. Exotic animals such as boa constrictors, noisy animals such as small yip yip dogs, etc should not be allowed as service animals.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: JLee


You mean "we" have the deep pockets?

What organization trains snakes as service animals?

If they don't want to spend the money, then don't legislate. Doing nothing is the free alternative. When you infringe on other's livelihoods it's up to the ruler to be certain proposed laws are fair, not the ruled.

Uhhhh, you've got it ass-backwards. Of course, you have the right to own all sorts of different animals. However, you do NOT have the right to take your animals into restaurants, department stores, etc. However, the government has granted that special right to a particular class of people & animals. If they didn't legislate, no one would be taking in a seeing eye dog, or any other animal.

A snake senses seizures before they occur? Bullshit. I think it would be wonderfully ironic that if while the guy was actually having a seizure, a bystander assumed incorrectly that the snake was choking him & killed the snake. Else, it would be ironic if during a seizure, while unable to defend himself, the snake actually did choke him.