Is a nVidia GeForce4 MX 440 same as Radeon 9200?
- Thread starter Rufio
- Start date
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
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9200 = 9000 with 8x agp, the 9000 is a striped 8500 but still retains the dx8 archetecture, i would say in dx8 games, the 9000 is better, in everything else i would think the mx would be better and forget about dx9
videoclone
Golden Member
- Jun 5, 2003
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The nVidia GeForce4 MX 440 MX420 and MX460 are all Direct X 7 Cards ... there pretty much Geforce2 GTS cards with a new name.
The ATI Radeon 9000 9100 and 9200 are all DX8.1 Cards and feture Cores similar to the Readeon 8500.
The ATI Radeon 9000 9100 and 9200 are all DX8.1 Cards and feture Cores similar to the Readeon 8500.
- Aug 22, 2001
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NVIDIA claims DX8.1 support, and it works in games that "require" DX8.1 support (like BF1942). I'm not sure how much more DX8.1 you can get.
Well of course it works in dx 8.1 games, what dx7 card dosen't? But that doesn't mean it can utilize dx8.1 features. It can't. It's dx7. And show me where nvidia says it's a dx8.1 card.
http://www.nvidia.com/attach/3665?type=support&primitive=0
Second page, down at the bottom. The RIVA TNT2 doesn't work at *all* in DX8.1, to name one card. The GF2 and GF4MX do. Maybe they don't do everything in hardware, but it supports DX8.1 just fine.
There is a big difference between simply "supporting" a given version of dx and being built to use the features. For instance, a ti4200 is a dx8 part, but it will run dx9 games such as hl2 in dx8 mode. Does that mean we can say it's a dx9 part? No, we can't. Same thing here with the gf4 mx. It may play dx8 games, but they run in dx7 compatibilty.
Edit: Also, your statment that a tnt2 will not work in dx8.1 is false. Take for example gta3. This game requires dx8.1. Tnt2's work fine with this game.
Edit: Also, your statment that a tnt2 will not work in dx8.1 is false. Take for example gta3. This game requires dx8.1. Tnt2's work fine with this game.
TNT2s do *not* work properly in BF1942, which requires DX8.1. The fact that they work in another game that "requires" DX8.1 is meaningless.
I'm not talking about games having a backwards compatibility mode (like HL2). Games which *only* run on a DX8.1 card will run on a GF2 or GF4MX, but not on (for example) a GeForce1. The card, between the hardware and the drivers, is compliant with the standard. Does it do it all in hardware? Probably not. Does it do it all quickly? Probably not. But it works. How can it "support" it if it is unable to use it? That's the definition of "support" (or at least the one I use).
I'm not talking about games having a backwards compatibility mode (like HL2). Games which *only* run on a DX8.1 card will run on a GF2 or GF4MX, but not on (for example) a GeForce1. The card, between the hardware and the drivers, is compliant with the standard. Does it do it all in hardware? Probably not. Does it do it all quickly? Probably not. But it works. How can it "support" it if it is unable to use it? That's the definition of "support" (or at least the one I use).
The reason a tnt2 won't work in BF1942 has nothing to do with dx. BF1942 requires hw t&l, which the tnt2 can't do. Furthmore I don't see how a tnt2 working with another game which requires dx8.1 is "meaningless." It means that the tnt2 can in fact work fine with games that require dx8.1, even though it is not a dx8.1 card. It proves your point that a tnt2 will not work with dx8.1 "at all" is incorrect.
Wait -- isn't HW T&L required as part of being a "DX8.1-compliant card", according to MS? If not, I'm confused (and wrong about the TNT2, which wasn't terribly important anyway). But my point remains that NVIDIA claims (and nobody that I've ever seen has disagreed) that the GF4MX *is* a DX8.1-compliant card. If it isn't, then what games is it not compatible with? Or are there *NO* DX8.1-only games on the market?
DannyBoy
Diamond Member
ffs people like you really bug me, despite being told by a selection of different users you still insist you are correct.
This has been discussed many times, the GF4MX will run an 8.1 dx game, but the HARDWARE itself is based on a dxSEVEN core.
If you want to get cocky, then we can both head over to the reference designs of the NVIDIA NV cores.
edit: Infact you go and find them yourself, then come back and tell me you are correct.
xSkyDrAx
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2003
- 7,706
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Well back to the origional question, no its the same cause the 9200 has pixel shaders and the mx440 doesn't. I think that the 9200 is faster than the mx440 cause I saw my friends mx440 do 2-3k on 3dmark01se and the 9200 SE!...do 4k in same. That should say a little something even if its not completely accurate, no?
Anandtech article with info about the NV17 (Geforce4 MX)
In case Matthias99 has trouble finding info.
Exerpt from the article:
In case Matthias99 has trouble finding info.
Exerpt from the article:
DannyBoy
Diamond Member
I guess hw t&l might be required, but I don't know the exact dx8.1 specifications. If there are any dx8.1 only games, then I haven't heard of them.
i'm guessing you're asking for a buying question? if you are under a heavy budget, then the mx440 can be found on compusa tomorrow for $30 after rebates, it can run dx7/8 games fine, even if it doesn't support some of the features, you might not see the difference. at the price of the 9200 ~$70 however, you should buy a ti4200 or a 9100 which is better.
- Aug 22, 2001
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The G4MX doesn't support DX8.X vertex&pixel shaders and hence dosen't meet the DX8.x specs making it a DX7 card. Just run 3Dmock2k1se and you'll quickly see that it's not capable of running the tests with DX8.x features.
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