is a calorie a calorie?

[Zivic]

a good article I read yesterday. Covers a lot of good points in reference to losing weight and how you need to take into account your training (weights/cardio)

the more and more I read, cardio becomes more and more unnecessary, even a big negative in some cases. be aware of this runners and cardio freaks... you are likely making it harder to lose weight

T-nation Link

 

[Pantlegz]

A calorie is never not a calorie.

I feel like I've been saying that for years, cardio is not necessary and/or could be hindering fat loss. HIIT/sprints if you need to work on conditioning, or, dare I suggest, tabata intervals.

 

[Zivic]

dare I suggest, tabata intervals.

only if you don't want anyone to take you seriously......

aint got time for no crossfit

 

[SociallyChallenged]

only if you don't want anyone to take you seriously......

aint got time for no crossfit

The concept of Tabatas are entirely separate from CrossFit. CF has taken them and modified them so heavily that the early research no longer applies to their CF Tabatas.

Tabatas in their own right are great. The intensity, however, has to be insane and works best with movements for distance (running, rowing, swimming).

 

[Zivic]

The concept of Tabatas are entirely separate from CrossFit. CF has taken them and modified them so heavily that the early research no longer applies to their CF Tabatas.

Tabatas in their own right are great. The intensity, however, has to be insane and works best with movements for distance (running, rowing, swimming).

so crossfit continues to f^ck things up.... you don't say

 

[alkemyst]

in reality, if you are training and stuff, just get your calories. It won't matter usually.

If you are just going to eat ice cream or waffles all day, you will find out it does.

 

[deadken]

...
the more and more I read, cardio becomes more and more unnecessary, even a big negative in some cases. be aware of this runners and cardio freaks... you are likely making it harder to lose weight ...

If you don't think cardio is necessary, then please don't feel obligated to do any. I'm fine with you living your life whatever way you choose, until it infringes on the way I want to live my life. So, I'll simply ask you for the same respect that I already give you.

This might be a good time to point out that not everyone has the same wants, desires, goals, etc... Perhaps you believe that everyone who runs is trying to lose weight? Would it be fair for me to assume that everyone who lifts any weights wants to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? (well, what he used to look like)... Please, let's not oversimplify things and assume that there can only be one correct answer.

FWIW: I was interested in this thread when I read the subject line. But, as soon as I started reading the posts, that saying of 'haters gonna hate' came to mind. I hesitated to include that in my post because I fear that it will somehow taint or lessen what I've said already. But, since I'd like to believe that we are all mature enough to recognize that this is completely separate from the body of my post I'll mention it at the end and just remind people that it was just a 'vibe' I felt.

 

[JBT]

I don't run to burn calories, I run to be "good" at running. I want to be good at running so I can not die toward the end of longer obstacle course races.

 

[alkemyst]

I don't run to burn calories, I run to be "good" at running. I want to be good at running so I can not die toward the end of longer obstacle course races.

QFT and some will never get this.

I agree lifting heavy gives me the biggest weight loss results and running hurts some of my gains in the gym, but the benefits for your heart and general fitness are worth it.

 

[Zivic]

If you don't think cardio is necessary, then please don't feel obligated to do any. I'm fine with you living your life whatever way you choose, until it infringes on the way I want to live my life. So, I'll simply ask you for the same respect that I already give you.

This might be a good time to point out that not everyone has the same wants, desires, goals, etc... Perhaps you believe that everyone who runs is trying to lose weight? Would it be fair for me to assume that everyone who lifts any weights wants to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? (well, what he used to look like)... Please, let's not oversimplify things and assume that there can only be one correct answer.

FWIW: I was interested in this thread when I read the subject line. But, as soon as I started reading the posts, that saying of 'haters gonna hate' came to mind. I hesitated to include that in my post because I fear that it will somehow taint or lessen what I've said already. But, since I'd like to believe that we are all mature enough to recognize that this is completely separate from the body of my post I'll mention it at the end and just remind people that it was just a 'vibe' I felt.

It's obvious internet is seriouz buziness...

What i am referring to is that the same fat @sses that do cardio session after cardio session and continue to get fatter don't realize the cardio is not only not helping but making things harder.... In terms of them losing weights.

Not everyones goal is to look like arnold, I agree, but I bet you offered those same people a pill that would give them that build overnight, they would take it instantly. Not because that is their ultimate goal, but its a hell of a lot better than they look now. Edit: I take that back, I would argue that is their ultimate goal, just not when you factor in what it takes to get there. People are fine with 'good enough'.

Running can be entirely for the benefit of your mind, I understand that, but just be aware it is detrimental to gaining or evening maintaining lean mass.

Edit...
Training the other day a guy comes up to me and says
"Why are you still here? It's obvious you won, you can go home."

I used cardio to lose weight, but having my diet dialed in javent done a cardio session in months, probably since the end of may and I am getting leaner.

 

[alkemyst]

It's obvious internet is seriouz buziness...

What i am referring to is that the same fat @sses that do cardio session after cardio session and continue to get fatter don't realize the cardio is not only not helping but making things harder.... In terms of them losing weights.

Not everyones goal is to look like arnold, I agree, but I bet you offered those same people a pill that would give them that build overnight, they would take it instantly. Not because that is their ultimate goal, but its a hell of a lot better than they look now.

Running can be entirely for the benefit of your mind, I understand that, but just be aware it is detrimental to gaining or evening maintaining lean mass

You are confusing people walking on the treadmill at your 'powerhouse' gym = runner's.

Arnold's look is actually not favored by many people esp. women, so your point is moot.

 

[Zivic]

You are confusing people walking on the treadmill at your 'powerhouse' gym = runner's.

Arnold's look is actually not favored by many people esp. women, so your point is moot.

If you say fat beer belly vs Arnold, I would say they favor Arnold.

Not sure where to go with the powerhouse reference. I train at anytime fitness... Not even a real gym. We have runners, that look like runners. Not a build I aspire to have.

 

[Zivic]

I don't run to burn calories, I run to be "good" at running. I want to be good at running so I can not die toward the end of longer obstacle course races.

I don't understand this... what is the attraction to these tough mudder-style runs? if you run it so what; is that how one measures their 'fitness' level? because I have seen some pretty fat people complete them without issue.


I workout to feel good, but I want to look good too.... not just thin. anyone can be thin.

 

[alkemyst]

If you say fat beer belly vs Arnold, I would say they favor Arnold.

Not sure where to go with the powerhouse reference. I train at anytime fitness... Not even a real gym. We have runners, that look like runners. Not a build I aspire to have.

A lot of women like the beer belly happy people rather than someone so hard as you.

Actually my heavier times are the one's I got the most T&A.

When I was ripped, people said I didn't look healthy. I had people tell me what if they cut that vein poking out.

 

[Riparian]

I don't understand this... what is the attraction to these tough mudder-style runs? if you run it so what; is that how one measures their 'fitness' level? because I have seen some pretty fat people complete them without issue.


I workout to feel good, but I want to look good too.... not just thin. anyone can be thin.

They're mainly just for fun. You go out with a bunch of friends and essentially play in an adult sized jungle gym. The added feeling of accomplishment after finishing them without failing the obstacles is a bonus.

 

[alkemyst]

I don't understand this... what is the attraction to these tough mudder-style runs? if you run it so what; is that how one measures their 'fitness' level? because I have seen some pretty fat people complete them without issue.


I workout to feel good, but I want to look good too.... not just thin. anyone can be thin.

Film one you doing it.

I really don't know why you are attacking this.

 

[ControlD]

I don't understand this... what is the attraction to these tough mudder-style runs? if you run it so what; is that how one measures their 'fitness' level? because I have seen some pretty fat people complete them without issue.


I workout to feel good, but I want to look good too.... not just thin. anyone can be thin.

Why are you even asking the question then? You obviously have all the answers already, you don't need us poor slobs to justify them do you?

Why do people run tough mudders, marathons, half marathons, iron mans races, etc? Hint: it isn't to lose weight and look awesome.

 

[Zivic]

Why are you even asking the question then? You obviously have all the answers already, you don't need us poor slobs to justify them do you?

Why do people run tough mudders, marathons, half marathons, iron mans races, etc? Hint: it isn't to lose weight and look awesome.

it isn't to lose weight, I understand that, and my OP was about those using cardio to lose weight. with little attention to their diet or weight training

when it comes to the mudders and things like a 5k, I have to think it is some yard stick to measure their fitness level.... I can't be 'that' out of shape, I did a 5K. Marathons and more serious races are on other level.

 

[Zivic]

A lot of women like the beer belly happy people rather than someone so hard as you.

Actually my heavier times are the one's I got the most T&A.

When I was ripped, people said I didn't look healthy. I had people tell me what if they cut that vein poking out.

my woman likes me more like I am now. there are plenty of women that like a man that's built/lean/jacked. That said I have been told on more than one occasion that "you are too much" "you are too intimidating".... I have also been told that "I have always been attracted to a guy that looks like you, but not sure I could be with someone that looked like you. I'd be too self conscious about the way I look"

then there is the woman that comes charging across the gym to tell me how "amazing" my back looked. "I just had to come over to tell you that"

I get all different types of comments from women. I will say, the more in shape I get, the more attention from guys I get.

all this is off topic though. again, my OP was about those that are trying to lose weight and going about it with session after session of cardio.

 

[z1ggy]

Ever since I've stopped cardio (minus my weekly hockey games... But not really even cardio) I've gotten much stronger. I've actually been eating about the same over all as I had been for the past few months- ate approx. 2300cal everyday for 6 weeks, now I zig zag between 2800 and 1900- I am considerably stronger than before.

I can't get to this article here at work, but I imagine it says things similar to other websites I've frequented. I'm almost totally convinced cardio in general is not needed to get lean.

 

[SP33Demon]

I workout to feel good, but I want to look good too.... not just thin. anyone can be thin.

You can change that statement to support anything you like. For example, "I workout to be in the top 0.5% of strength for my age... not count calories for low bodyfat. Anyone can count calories and look like that." Or "I workout for the camraderie, not to get stronger. Anyone can get stronger." Or "I workout to win the tour de france, not bodybuild. Anyone can bodybuild." So on and so forth. It depends on your goals.

 

[alkemyst]

Ever since I've stopped cardio (minus my weekly hockey games... But not really even cardio) I've gotten much stronger. I've actually been eating about the same over all as I had been for the past few months- ate approx. 2300cal everyday for 6 weeks, now I zig zag between 2800 and 1900- I am considerably stronger than before.

I can't get to this article here at work, but I imagine it says things similar to other websites I've frequented. I'm almost totally convinced cardio in general is not needed to get lean.

What's considerably stronger? Based on your lifts they are not that heavy to begin with.

Cardio doesn't have a huge impact on lifts, but it will kill bulking quite a bit.

However; everyone is different.

In response to Zivic, I have seen far more fat lifters than fat runners (not treadmill walking types).

 

[ewdotson]

when it comes to the mudders and things like a 5k, I have to think it is some yard stick to measure their fitness level.... I can't be 'that' out of shape, I did a 5K. Marathons and more serious races are on other level.

Just a note - 5Ks are exactly as serious of races as a runner wants to make them. Sure, sure, there are plenty of people who stroll through them in 30 minutes. Then you have people like my nephew who is looking to go sub-16 minutes this year and sub-15 before all is said and done. The former group is obviously more than a little bit larger than the latter, but the same could be said of 5:30+ marathoners versus runners who run them in under 2:30.

 

[Pantlegz]

What a shit show this thread has become, I didn't know that suggesting cardio might be preventing weight loss and/or strength gains and therefore not necessary if those are your goals was an attack on those that run for any other reason. I rarely run, my cardio is mostly all grappling and maybe a little HIIT if I'm mixing it up and I'm able to run a 7 min mile and haven't had issues jogging at a decent pace for >3 miles all while weighing 260+.

 

[z1ggy]

What's considerably stronger? Based on your lifts they are not that heavy to begin with.

Cardio doesn't have a huge impact on lifts, but it will kill bulking quite a bit.

However; everyone is different.

In response to Zivic, I have seen far more fat lifters than fat runners (not treadmill walking types).

Near the end of my first "cut" my dead lift was 185lb, which was around 8-10 weeks ago I think? It was sometime in the early summer.

Just got done with my 5th week of "zig zag" approach to weight loss, and I did 255x6, then 230x8. Yep, nothing special there but that's a 40% rise in strength while eating the same weekly amount of calories, which is a net deficit of about 3400 calories.

I ate slightly less protein and ton more carbs on lift days, then cut back a bunch of rest days. I also stopped doing cardio completely, except weekly sports. Before, I lifted 5x a week and finished every work out with elliptical or jump rope. Now I lift 3x a week, but more intensely with no cardio at all. Probably going to rein in calories a bit so I am at a 4000cal net deficit a week starting next week, purely through eating less food and not by adding in cardio.