IRS Scandal explodes. "no evidence that would support a criminal prosecution."

[werepossum]

Go play, child. You are pathetic. I made two specific points, neither of which is in the least debatable or ambiguous. First, the record retention requirements in question cover "official records" specifically, not all email. Second, we have no information yet about what email Lerner did and did not print and file. Therefore, we have no way to determine if she complied with the record retention requirements or not. Those are facts, no matter what Fox told you. That you chose to dispute these facts only reinforces your lack of integrity.

Perhaps I should bump some of your earlier whoppers in this thread -- none of which you've acknowledged or corrected -- to remind everyone what a lying weasel you've become. You know, like this steaming pile of possum excrement:

"The Obama administration has claimed that sixty percent of the groups targeted ... were not conservative groups."
​

Tell us lies
Tell us sweet little lies
(Tell us lies, tell us, tell us lies)

Had Lerner printed and filed her emails, they would not be unrecoverable and would presumably have been turned over to Congress as part of its Constitutionally mandated oversight. It's also axiomatic that if all emails for a period are missing, then all official business emails are also missing. Unless you've sunk far enough to claim Lerner spent her days generating tens of thousands of emails about Obama's beautiful eyes, anyway.

Lol. As per usual, anyone who tells you inconvenient facts must be lying to you or part of a conspiracy. It couldn't possibly be that you are ignorant and delusional.

Um, inconvenient facts? Bowfinger did nothing but make some asinine and labored "reasoning" about how this could be okay, as always, conveniently fact free.

Exactly.

Should be obvious this mentality isn't limited to government, for all the differences expressed on this board Werepossum is doing you guys a favor by pointing out the slight of hand that often takes place. Fitting he'd get lambasted! :thumbsup:

Even if you don't believe it's taking place in the IRS scandal (Hint: It is) you will find it in other areas of our lives related to business/law/politics as long as you are aware of it.

Orwell points out it as well as anyone regarding "doublethink" and it's definition.

So not limited to government, but pervase in politics, business and law.

Specificaly regarding using private definitions vs what one knows another would use for the definition of words, in a manner to be deceptive and dishonest, which is Werepossum's point:

The IRS scandal is a perfect example of this fundamental dishonesty regarding the hard drive crash and recovery attempts and the manner in which information has been brought to investigators attention. The IRS is lying, granted they are being somewhat clever about it. Doesn't need to involve anyone outside the IRS which is distraction at this point, but I'd remain wary of anyone who can't see the deception being perpetuated by the IRS here even if they can't adequately explain it (hint: likely political hack).

Exactly. I had a moment of hope when this first came out and the proggies vanished, foolishly thinking perhaps they had reached the limit of what they were willing to support. Foolish, foolish werepossum. Now we see that the White House can safely claim literally anything, no matter how patently a lie it may be, because their followers are too dishonest and/or too stupid to reject it.

 

[QuantumPion]

New news from the most transparent administration ever: IRS used e-mail backup company Sonasoft for 6 years, but cancelled their services right around the time when the scandal broke. Link.

This is pretty much as if during the Watergate scandal, if Nixon just destroyed the tape and proclaimed to the media "you got no evidence against me now, so shut up and go away". And then when the media demanded an investigation, attorney general John Mitchell (the guy that went to prison for the Watergate break-in) proclaimed he did an investigation and found no wrong doing lol.

 

[ivwshane]

Had Lerner printed and filed her emails, they would not be unrecoverable and would presumably have been turned over to Congress as part of its Constitutionally mandated oversight. It's also axiomatic that if all emails for a period are missing, then all official business emails are also missing. Unless you've sunk far enough to claim Lerner spent her days generating tens of thousands of emails about Obama's beautiful eyes, anyway.


Um, inconvenient facts? Bowfinger did nothing but make some asinine and labored "reasoning" about how this could be okay, as always, conveniently fact free.


Exactly. I had a moment of hope when this first came out and the proggies vanished, foolishly thinking perhaps they had reached the limit of what they were willing to support. Foolish, foolish werepossum. Now we see that the White House can safely claim literally anything, no matter how patently a lie it may be, because their followers are too dishonest and/or too stupid to reject it.

A lie? According to who? You? Issa? And your proof would be?

All I see is an investigation led by a member of congress who has either straight up lied or has purposely mislead the public on its findings time and time again, so excuse us "progies" for not believing this latest "info".

Mean while you and the retarded right eat this shit up as if Jesus himself had come down from the heavens to spread the gospel that is issa's latest talking point.

What's funny is that you continue lapping up any bullshit Issa puts forth and not once, not even a little bit have you questioned what he has said, not after the first lie or the next or the first misleading "leak" or the last.

And you have the gall to call others dishonest and stupid?

Lol!

 

[Matt1970]

A lie? According to who? You? Issa? And your proof would be?

All I see is an investigation led by a member of congress who has either straight up lied or has purposely mislead the public on its findings time and time again, so excuse us "progies" for not believing this latest "info".

Mean while you and the retarded right eat this shit up as if Jesus himself had come down from the heavens to spread the gospel that is issa's latest talking point.

What's funny is that you continue lapping up any bullshit Issa puts forth and not once, not even a little bit have you questioned what he has said, not after the first lie or the next or the first misleading "leak" or the last.

And you have the gall to call others dishonest and stupid?

Lol!

Good lord son, my irony meter just blew up. We have a government official who pleads the fifth and refuses to answer questions during an investigation. We want accountability in our government, but if she wants to do that it's her legal right and there are always court orders to get her records. Oh ya, about that, sorry, we had a computer crash and magically the majority of the affected files were missing emails to and from people outside the IRS. That's ok, per protocol she should have printed out those emails. Oh ya, about that too, sorry, they don't seem to exist.

The fact that you buy this steaming pile of horse shit and then have the nerve to say the retarded right eat this shit up "as if Jesus himself had come down from the heavens to spread the gospel" boggles the mind. But then again, we all know deep down inside you don't believe it either.

 

[spidey07]

New news from the most transparent administration ever: IRS used e-mail backup company Sonasoft for 6 years, but cancelled their services right around the time when the scandal broke. Link.

This is pretty much as if during the Watergate scandal, if Nixon just destroyed the tape and proclaimed to the media "you got no evidence against me now, so shut up and go away". And then when the media demanded an investigation, attorney general John Mitchell (the guy that went to prison for the Watergate break-in) proclaimed he did an investigation and found no wrong doing lol.

They need to subpoena those records and tapes then. And the verbage of the contract and it's cancellation. This scandal is huge and much worse than watergate. Time to remove obama from office. His corruption and destruction of our nation MUST be stopped by any and all means necessary.

 

[CitizenKain]

His corruption and destruction of our nation MUST be stopped by any and all means necessary.

What part of our nation has been destroyed exactly?

So when are you tea bag fuckers going to do something more then shoot some cops? You guys have been screaming for years about how oppressed you are.

 

[spidey07]

What part of our nation has been destroyed exactly?

So when are you tea bag fuckers going to do something more then shoot some cops? You guys have been screaming for years about how oppressed you are.

You have a president using the IRS against it's own citizens and destroying evidence it did so. So the rule of law has been destroyed. Our standing and respect as a nation has been destroyed. Those are enough to toss him out. High crimes and misdemeanors. Impeach the fuckstain, the very cancer, occupying our white house.

 

[QuantumPion]

I think they should just throw Lerner and everyone else involved in jail indefinitely for obstruction of justice until one of them provides evidence going up to the top. You have to break it like an organized crime ring, because that's what it is.

 

[fskimospy]

I think they should just throw Lerner and everyone else involved in jail indefinitely for obstruction of justice until one of them provides evidence going up to the top. You have to break it like an organized crime ring, because that's what it is.

I have to say that every time I think I've seen the most insane post in this thread some more surface. I don't mean to single out your insane post, as spidey has provided some comedy gold, but the sheer level of paranoia on display here is impressive.

 

[CitizenKain]

I have to say that every time I think I've seen the most insane post in this thread some more surface. I don't mean to single out your insane post, as spidey has provided some comedy gold, but the sheer level of paranoia on display here is impressive.

The way to fix the law is to break it worse, that makes sense. The only solution for groups against taxation possibly having extra scrutiny before being tax free status is the imprisonment of as many people possible. This is why no one really gives a shit what tea baggers say, they have gone insane over every little thing for years that everything coming from them starts to sound like a mental patient raving.

Also, it was really clever of Lerner to travel backwards in time and destroy her harddrive in 2013. But, if she traveled back in time in 2013 to 2011 and fixed the problem before it could show upin 2013, would she still have traveled back in time? Or would that be on an alternate timeline.

 

[fskimospy]

The way to fix the law is to break it worse, that makes sense. The only solution for groups against taxation possibly having extra scrutiny before being tax free status is the imprisonment of as many people possible. This is why no one really gives a shit what tea baggers say, they have gone insane over every little thing for years that everything coming from them starts to sound like a mental patient raving.

I think it mostly comes from the fact that they are hysterical to start with. When Obama came into office there were all these fever dreams about FEMA camps, how Obama was raising a private army, etc, etc. It was clearly batshit insane, but that's how paranoid these guys are.

Now with this IRS business there seems to be a legitimate gripe that at a minimum the IRS filtered groups improperly. The only issue is that when your starting point when nothing is going on is "communist tyrant bent on destruction of America", any actual wrongdoing you encounter is going to send you into a frenzy.

 

[boomerang]

I think they should just throw Lerner and everyone else involved in jail indefinitely for obstruction of justice until one of them provides evidence going up to the top. You have to break it like an organized crime ring, because that's what it is.

There is another answer. Total Republican control of the government. Yes, it's a scary thought and I'm not kidding when I say that, but Republicans controlling the Executive and Legislative branches could use the same tactics to wipe out their political enemies but escalate the process. The framework for how to do it has already been laid out. Just follow the playbook. Any group with a registered Democrat on board can be either stonewalled or pursued depending on their status as a new or existing group. Take the gloves off and play by the same rules as the progressive left. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If the lefties don't like it, that's not a problem as we have virtually every department of government armed to the teeth now. They are equipped nearly as well as our military. The left will have to answer to a government controlled by the right. Between enforcement through the IRS and the domestic soldiers of the .gov they will be dispatched very quickly. And many of them are not armed so the resistance will be minimal.

Sarcasm? You bet. But it comes down to police your own or somebody will take over and get it done in a manner you may not like. The left is setting themselves up for a nation that will require extended rule by the left. They had better hope it works out as planned.

 

[Jaskalas]

You have a president using the IRS against it's own citizens and destroying evidence it did so. So the rule of law has been destroyed. Our standing and respect as a nation has been destroyed. Those are enough to toss him out. High crimes and misdemeanors. Impeach the fuckstain, the very cancer, occupying our white house.

You picture a President Biden getting to the bottom of the IRS?

Perhaps its not the man that's the problem. Perhaps its the party. The corrupt system of BOTH parties. Perhaps the solution to this problem is to fortify a State government and secede. Bypass the corruption altogether.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Darrell Issa to dead horse: "Get up! Get up! on your feet! work damn you!, work you fucker!, Shock him! shock him again!

I say we force Issa to personally foot the bill for all of this huckstering and phony grandstanding. I guess when all your political/career eggs are in one basket, you're gonna do everything you can to see that they hatch.

 

[MrColin]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...cans-find-10-of-tea-party-donors-audi/?page=2

First it was that the IRS targeted Tea Party Groups. Now it came out that if you donated to the Tea Party groups you were 10x more likely to be audited.


Obama's admin keeps reaching new lows on government terrorism.

It might be that tp advocates are 10X more likely to be using fraud to avoid paying their taxes, michal1980. As a fellow taxpayer, I say "good call."

 

[CitizenKain]

I think it mostly comes from the fact that they are hysterical to start with. When Obama came into office there were all these fever dreams about FEMA camps, how Obama was raising a private army, etc, etc. It was clearly batshit insane, but that's how paranoid these guys are.

Now with this IRS business there seems to be a legitimate gripe that at a minimum the IRS filtered groups improperly. The only issue is that when your starting point when nothing is going on is "communist tyrant bent on destruction of America", any actual wrongdoing you encounter is going to send you into a frenzy.

Vox had a good write up on this.
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/23/5834518/irs-lois-lerner-missing-emails

 

[Jhhnn]

I think they should just throw Lerner and everyone else involved in jail indefinitely for obstruction of justice until one of them provides evidence going up to the top. You have to break it like an organized crime ring, because that's what it is.

Heh. In order to do that, Lerner would have to refuse to testify under a grant of immunity. That's the way it works wrt organized crime.

HOR Repubs are free to do that at any time.

 

[fskimospy]

Vox had a good write up on this.
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/23/5834518/irs-lois-lerner-missing-emails

Oh great, more fundamentally dishonest communists carrying water for Obama. We all know that information that contradicts a conspiracy can only be the result of lies or ignorance.

 

[fskimospy]

Seriously though, that Vox article will have no effect on conservatives here whatsoever. It's hard to imagine any contrary facts that would.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think it mostly comes from the fact that they are hysterical to start with. When Obama came into office there were all these fever dreams about FEMA camps, how Obama was raising a private army, etc, etc. It was clearly batshit insane, but that's how paranoid these guys are.

Now with this IRS business there seems to be a legitimate gripe that at a minimum the IRS filtered groups improperly. The only issue is that when your starting point when nothing is going on is "communist tyrant bent on destruction of America", any actual wrongdoing you encounter is going to send you into a frenzy.

Root cause? Jesus fucking Christ! Don't you realize that there's a Ni@@er in the White House? And a goddamned Democrat, to boot! It's Impossible! Unthinkable! Just plain Wrong!

They won't articulate it in those terms, of course, but that's their reality, make no mistake about it. Their leadership manipulates that basic antipathy into whatever attack they choose.

 

[fskimospy]

Root cause? Jesus fucking Christ! Don't you realize that there's a Ni@@er in the White House? And a goddamned Democrat, to boot! It's Impossible! Unthinkable! Just plain Wrong!

They won't articulate it in those terms, of course, but that's their reality, make no mistake about it. Their leadership manipulates that basic antipathy into whatever attack they choose.

While I have no doubt that there are racists in the Republican Party, I think most of it comes from Obama simply being a democrat. They did the same sort of thing with Clinton. (Apparently when Clinton wasn't trying to make us into commies he was murdering people)

There's just a paranoid strain there that isn't amenable to reason. I don't even think they want it to be as they revel in victimhood. I've always found it funny that the party of self reliance can't stop talking about how victimized they are.

 

[ivwshane]

Good lord son, my irony meter just blew up. We have a government official who pleads the fifth and refuses to answer questions during an investigation. We want accountability in our government, but if she wants to do that it's her legal right and there are always court orders to get her records. Oh ya, about that, sorry, we had a computer crash and magically the majority of the affected files were missing emails to and from people outside the IRS. That's ok, per protocol she should have printed out those emails. Oh ya, about that too, sorry, they don't seem to exist.

The fact that you buy this steaming pile of horse shit and then have the nerve to say the retarded right eat this shit up "as if Jesus himself had come down from the heavens to spread the gospel" boggles the mind. But then again, we all know deep down inside you don't believe it either.

The fact that you still continue to peddle this BS despite showing you the timeline of events is what boggles the mind. Facts your kryptonite and you've proven to avoid them at all costs.

I love your cries of "guilty until proven innocent" though, it shows just how much you believe in America and it's values (hint: you don't).

Now unless you have some actual facts to add to the descussion, why don't you run off and cry to your mom some more about people calling you names!


Lol!

 

[Bowfinger]

Seriously though, that Vox article will have no effect on conservatives here whatsoever. It's hard to imagine any contrary facts that would.

Indeed, especially when one can't even get them to accept that those facts exist. I can understand differing views on the implications of some facts, but there seems to be no hope of rational thought for those who are so entrenched in denial they cannot even accept there are such facts. They appear to be literally impervious to facts.

My point throughout this thread is not that the IRS is blameless and Lerner innocent. It is simply that the actual facts uncovered so far do not match the outpouring of purely partisan supposition and innuendo coming from Issa, Fox, and their ilk. Did the IRS/Lerner destroy evidence? Maybe ... but the facts we have today don't show this. They simply don't.

 

[Angry Irishman]

There appear to be many living in their own variety of bubbles around here.

 

[First]

That VOX article adds a few bit of good details, particularly about the sad nature of IRS IT:

1. Only 500MB of emails is stored on IRS servers per user, so after 500MB of emails is reached (pathetically low, probably justified given the massive amount of docs they take in), emails begin being archived to the local C.

2. No backups of the backups (apparently), and backups are destroyed rather quickly (6 months). Cost reasons is cited, which doesn't surprise me given, again, the massive amount of docs IRS must take in.

3. Email chain showing Lerner requesting her drive be recovered shows that for there to be a conspiracy, both IRS IT and potentially HP and/or former HP employees would have to be involved.

Slowly but surely, much less to be suspicious over.