IRS Scandal explodes. "no evidence that would support a criminal prosecution."

[Doc Savage Fan]

This was first reported back in February. It's in the news again because Judicial Watch, a right wing propaganda organization, needs to keep its IRS lawsuit in the public eye. As I said in February:

Remember that the fundamental story here is a bunch of openly political organizations flouted the law by claiming to be 501(c)(4) "social welfare" charities. They should be investigated for fraud. Most were right wing political groups, however, dedicated to electing GOP candidates. The right therefore jumped to defend this fraud by launching a full scale offensive against the IRS.

Was rampant fraud discovered with 501(c)(4)s to substantiate FBI involvement? Or was this a witch hunt from the beginning?

 

[xBiffx]

I don't remember seeing anywhere that these organization were being investigated for fraud. And its quite telling when other organizations that happen to swing the other way aren't given the same scrutiny during their application for 501(c)(4).

Which also tells you why there was no fraud investigation. Pretty hard to commit fraud when all you are trying to do is apply for the status and can't even get that far. If there was something wrong with their application or they didn't meet 501(c)(4) requirement then so be it. There is no indication that this was the case and why things were being held up for a vast majority of these applications.

 

[PokerGuy]

Many lefties have already established their support of IRS abuse of conservatives, it's not a far leap from that to abuse by other agencies. They'll contort logic in any way needed to rationalize their support for the abuse.

The irony here is that in their zealotry to try to shut down political position, they've significantly neutered the IRS's ability to do actual reviews and apply scrutiny to bogus charities going forward.

 

[Jhhnn]

Link

Just a few extra motivated low level employees??



Some of the article is opinion others contains facts.

But is does show that it went deeper than originally thought and knowing broke the law with people that had to have known better due to their positions in the administration.

This is no longer just operational department heads that are involved

Heh. The allegation that govt officials knowingly broke the law is scurrilous & unfounded, an extrapolation from what actually occurred. Whenever the IRS seeks prosecution, they give all pertinent information to the DoJ to make it happen.

You do believe that tax dodgers should be prosecuted, I hope, particularly over well organized & massive scams perpetrated by the wealthiest among them.

 

[sm625]

Obama's admin keeps reaching new lows on government terrorism.

Every Hillary voter is fully on board with this. Continually setting the bar lower is what our electoral system is all about.

 

[PokerGuy]

You do believe that tax dodgers should be prosecuted, I hope, particularly over well organized & massive scams perpetrated by the wealthiest among them.

No you silly man, only those tax dodgers that support the party not in power are to be prosecuted. Other tax dodgers who do support the "correct" party can even become secretary of the treasury! (Geithner).

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Heh. The allegation that govt officials knowingly broke the law is scurrilous & unfounded, an extrapolation from what actually occurred. Whenever the IRS seeks prosecution, they give all pertinent information to the DoJ to make it happen.

You do believe that tax dodgers should be prosecuted, I hope, particularly over well organized & massive scams perpetrated by the wealthiest among them.

Specifically, who are these "tax dodgers" you're referring to?

 

[Jhhnn]

No you silly man, only those tax dodgers that support the party not in power are to be prosecuted. Other tax dodgers who do support the "correct" party can even become secretary of the treasury! (Geithner).

Straight for the bunker o' false equivalency, of course.

It's not like Geithner created a framework like this to skirt the law on a massive scale-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9296-7661-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_graphic.html

The notion that the line was never crossed in the process is laughable.

 

[PokerGuy]

Straight for the bunker o' false equivalency, of course.

It's not like Geithner created a framework like this to skirt the law on a massive scale-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9296-7661-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_graphic.html

The notion that the line was never crossed in the process is laughable.

Can you point me to the evidence of "tax dodging" involved? I missed that among the drivel about the evil koch brothers. Geithner on the other hand was caught dodging taxes and was still appointed to be secretary of the treasury.

Regardless, you say 'tax dodgers' should be prosecuted, but you obviously only want those who support the "other side" prosecuted.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Can you point me to the evidence of "tax dodging" involved? I missed that among the drivel about the evil koch brothers. Geithner on the other hand was caught dodging taxes and was still appointed to be secretary of the treasury.

I'm just sure there would have been tax dodging had the IRS approved those applications. Best to get the FBI involved early!

 

[PokerGuy]

I'm just sure there would have been tax dodging had the IRS approved those applications. Best to get the FBI involved early!

Oh, I see, that makes perfect sense, it's one of those hot new pre-crime detection techniques!

 

[thraashman]

Straight for the bunker o' false equivalency, of course.

It's not like Geithner created a framework like this to skirt the law on a massive scale-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9296-7661-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_graphic.html

The notion that the line was never crossed in the process is laughable.

You're never going to be able to have a logical conversation with people that think God expresses himself through laissez faire economics and that he commands us to worship the rich as they purchase the government.

 

[PokerGuy]

You're never going to be able to have a logical conversation with people that think God expresses himself through laissez faire economics and that he commands us to worship the rich as they purchase the government.

Phew, good thing there aren't any of those around here then. Any other strawmen you'd like to take on, you pretty much nailed that one.

 

[werepossum]

Was rampant fraud discovered with 501(c)(4)s to substantiate FBI involvement? Or was this a witch hunt from the beginning?

Proggies believe that failure to conform constitutes rampant fraud of every imaginable kind. Thus, anything done to punish those not in conformity is good and just, because just as some animals are inherently more equal, some other animals are inherently less equal.

Phew, good thing there aren't any of those around here then. Any other strawmen you'd like to take on, you pretty much nailed that one.

I dunno, the strawman wins points for saying less stupid shit. lol

 

[xBiffx]

You're never going to be able to have a logical conversation with people that think God expresses himself through laissez faire economics and that he commands us to worship the rich as they purchase the government.

When logical is redefined as only that made up crazy shit which you can agree on, you are absolutely right.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Proggies believe that failure to conform constitutes rampant fraud of every imaginable kind. Thus, anything done to punish those not in conformity is good and just, because just as some animals are inherently more equal, some other animals are inherently less equal.

I actually find their highly "selective" rationalization skills to be quite amazing...and am now beginning to think some of our friends here are fucking insane.

 

[piasabird]

Turns out the IRS sent disks with millions of TAX returns from over 100,000 tax exempts to the FBI. So what exactly were they trying to do?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-confidential-taxpayer-information-fbi-eliana

 

[xBiffx]

Turns out the IRS sent disks with millions of TAX returns from over 100,000 tax exempts to the FBI. So what exactly were they trying to do?

Back them up....

 

[WHAMPOM]

Turns out the IRS sent disks with millions of TAX returns from over 100,000 tax exempts to the FBI. So what exactly were they trying to do?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-confidential-taxpayer-information-fbi-eliana

Deparmental co-operation? Tax free organizations are known as the main avenue found in money laundering.

edit; Right behind the banking system.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Turns out the IRS sent disks with millions of TAX returns from over 100,000 tax exempts to the FBI. So what exactly were they trying to do?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-confidential-taxpayer-information-fbi-eliana

Here's the picture....

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...-to-seek-criminal-charges-of-obama-opponents/

On October 8, 2010, Lois Lerner, Joe Urban [IRS Technical Advisor, TEGE], Judy Kindell [top aide to Lerner], Justin Lowe [Technical Advisor to the Commissioner of Tax-Exempt and Government Entities], and Siri Buller met with the section chief and other attorneys from the Department of Justice Criminal Division’s Public Integrity Section, and one representative from the FBI, to discuss recent attention to the political activity of exempt organizations.

The section’s attorneys expressed concern that certain section 501(c) organizations are actually political committees “posing” as if they are not subject to FEC law, and therefore may be subject to criminal liability. The attorneys mentioned several possible theories to bring criminal charges under FEC law. In response, Lois and Judy eloquently explained the following points:

• Under section 7805(b), we may only revoke or modify an organization’s exemption retroactively if it omitted or misstated a material fact or operated in a manner materially different from that originally represented.
  
• If we do not have these misrepresentations, the organization may rely on our determination it is exempt. However, the likelihood of revocation is diminished by the fact that section 501(c)(4)-(c)(6) organizations are not required to apply for recognition of exemption.
  
• We discussed the hypothetical situation of a section 501(c)(4) organization that declares itself exempt as a social welfare organization, but at the end of the taxable year has in fact functioned as a political organization. Judy explained that such an organization, in order to be in compliance, would simply file Form 1120-POL and paying tax at the highest corporate rate.

Lois stated that although we do not believe that organizations which are subject to a civil audit subsequently receive any type of immunity from a criminal investigation, she will refer them to individuals from CI who can better answer that question. She explained that we are legally required to separate the civil and criminal aspects of any examination and that while we do not have EO law experts in CI, our FIU agents are experienced in coordinating with CI.

The attorneys asked whether a change in the law is necessary, and whether a three-way partnership among DOJ, the FEC, and the IRS is possible to prevent prohibited activity by these organizations. Lois listed a number of obstacles to the attorneys’ theories:

[REDACTED]

She pointed to Revenue Ruling 2004-6, which was drafted in light of the electioneering communication rules before they were litigated.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Deparmental co-operation? Tax free organizations are known as the main avenue found in money laundering.

edit; Right behind the banking system.

So this was about money laundering? Really?

 

[piasabird]

Tax returns are confidential and protected by law.

 

[zinfamous]

I can't wait until ____raging mouth conservopundit finds SHOCKING! evidence that all of these IRS forms and records were found stashed away on Hillary's hidden email servers.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Has any action been made to clarify what a 501c/PAC organization is and what is considered taxable from them? I know the IRS asked for clarification has any Politician done anything to assist or are they too busy rolling in donations and waiting for their consultant position if they lose an election?

 

[zinfamous]

...and I ahven't been following this all that closely, but it seems that the party line argument here is:

dems: IRS is investigating fraudulent, or potentially fraudulent claims as non-profit organizations
repus: If this were true, then democrat-leaning organizations would be persecuted and prosecuted at the same rate!

Is that basically the current line?

My question then, and I'm sure this has already been brought up and many of you have a saved text file somewhere on your desktop with all of the relevant links, but...is it not possible that the reason there is a disproportionate amount of repub-leaning organizations in this investigation because those organizations just uh...tend to be more fraudulent?

Here comes that rate concept. I know Biff will enjoy it.

Anyway, I haven't been following this so I honestly don't know if there is substantial information involving the actual investigation (showing that it was a broad investigation, targeting 501c's with a rather blind eye), and that the results tended to favor GOP orgs as the largest offenders, and this is what creates the perception that it was targeted and politically motivated pettiness. I'm a rather cynical fella when it comes to our current political environment, so please excuse me that this is my first assumption.