Iron Lore goes down... (Titan Quest)

[Zenoth]

Hey I just thought...

Since Iron Lore is down, who's receiving most of the money from the Soulstorm sells now? Only THQ and Relic I guess? I hope that IL's employees received their due before they had to quit.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: apoppin
no ... i always upgrade when my old PC parts still have good value - 70% .. when consolers upgrade, they mostly do all at once ,,, and the TRASH is the "upgrade"

None of that is based in any fact. Plenty of PC gamers do "all at once" upgrades. My new build was a 100% replacement... case and all. And, yes, many of the old parts will indeed wind up in the trash due to being of so little value. You need look no further than the hardware forums to see people every day asking for help with 100% new builds. And I can't think of the last time I threw away a console. I generally sell the old ones.

An observation I've found is that if you time the part resales properly, you can actually keep your system pretty up to date for not much money. I used that tactic the past year or so, albeit, half assed.

That said, I'm not so sure I'm going to continue this. The piecemeal upgrades and waiting for hot deals may have saved me a good deal of money...but my PC was sitting around half torn apart for 6 months! Video cards are pretty easy to swap, but motherboards not so much!

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: m0mentary
I bought the game and enjoyed it, I don't understand why not even 1/4th of the millions of people who loved Diablo didn't pick it up.

Bad reviews and/or World of Warcraft. Take your pick.

Anyways, this guy makes a fascinating subject. Perhaps the multiplayer should have been properly used to crush pirates while they let them dominate the single player? I tend to blame the developer for implementing a crash without explanation.

Still it?s hard not to have empathy for game developers who fail. It cannot be easy to support all the hardware out there, etc, but perhaps that?s all the more reason to either create less intensive applications or to use a common platform (Cry Tech ? ID Tech ? Unreal), or to simply find a new medium over the PC.

Browsers and Flash aren?t a bad way to go.

 

[Farley2k]

Originally posted by: apoppin
PC game sales are taking off ... despite piracy .. all the publishers are showing a good increase in sales.

So if sales are taking off then what is the problem?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Farley2k

Originally posted by: apoppin
PC game sales are taking off ... despite piracy .. all the publishers are showing a good increase in sales.

So if sales are taking off then what is the problem?

You don't see a problem with theft?
:roll:

 

[PingSpike]

I'm actually surprised at the amount of developers that continue to roll-their-own 3D engine. It must be the obsession with having the most cutting edge graphics, but it seems like a ton of duplicated effort for very little gain. And it seems like by using a battle tested off the shelf product, you'd improve reliability.

Who knows...maybe the licensing fees are very expensive compared to throwing one together.

 

[apoppin]

"throwing one together?"
:Q


it depends on the game and the Game Producer/Devs feelings about buying or building one. Unreal3 is trying to become the "all purpose" engine .. isn't succeeding very well in some games, i hear

 

[Delta6Echo]

Originally posted by: Canai

Originally posted by: DannyLove

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Canai
To all you 'fuck pirates' people, fuck you back YARRRR

Really though, I pirate a lot, but I also buy all the games that are good. Bioshock, Crysis, KOTOR 2, NWN2 and expansion, DiRT, Company of Heroes, BF2 are all games I pirated and then purchased.

I pirated Titan Quest too. Played it for a couple hours, got bored of it, and deleted it. I'd rather download and test out a game than waste money on it.

So you basically go and steal a car, drive it around, and then pay for it once you like it?

I think its called a Test Drive

Yes, I am a car thief. :roll:

Demos today are beta pieces of shit. If the only way for me to try out a game is to pirate it, then yes, I'm going to pirate it. Also, if images leak before launch, I get them, like I did with Crysis. I couldn't wait to play it so I downed it a few weeks before launch.

And look at this thread. Most, if not all, of you don't pirate, and purchase legit copies. I'm the only one who has said they pirated it. Same thing with the clan I'm in. Out of the ~40 people in the clan, only four or five other than me pirate.

The real problem is not piracy. It may be a part of the problem, but it's definitely not THE problem. THE problem is publishers pushing DRM on their games, giving dev companies a tiny percentage of the profits, forcing out unfinished games.

FWIW, I've been pirating games since Dungeon Keeper. That was back in middle school/early high school. I never bought DK, but I did purchase DK2, which I would not have done had I not played the original. Keep in mind that at that time I had no job and no income, so purchasing a game was a big deal.

edit: oh, and another thing. PC gaming is not what it used to be. Remember back in the day when the three month release schedule took up an entire sidebar in PCGamer?

Now we just have a handful of mega titles coming out 'this year' and the occasional decent indie game. Not only that but the games nowadays are way expensive. Too expensive for the broken, DRM encrusted shit that a lot of them are.

In this kind of market I'm not willing to trust beta demos for my $50+ investment.

You know, this man speaks the truth. Typically, developers get treated like shit by publishers. I do think piracy hurts companies, but to blindly go into creating a game like TQ, and thinking that you are going to be the first developer to thwart piracy is stupid.

A good point was made with WoW...everything is controlled online, but let's be realistic. Before WoW, Blizzard also dealt with piracy. I honestly think that is the exact reason we haven't seen a WoW game that was single player since Frozen Throne.

THQ sounds like they have no clue what they are doing. Specific checks that keep you from moving forward in a game? How do they know this didn't affect legit gamers? What if I don't want to use a CD? Are you going to make it hard for me to play a game that I just bought?

It sounds like there is more to this story and his anger should be evenly applied everywhere. Simply blaming piracy for a complete failure is easy. THQ simply wasn't prepared......and I feel REALLY bad for them

 

[apoppin]

Nonsense .. the DRM is the reaction to theft .. is NOT the other way around

in the beginning .. in PC gaming there was no DRM ... thieves made it necessary. Stop attempting to justify theft ... that is a damn stupid selfish justification.
--You are not stealing "food" so you and your family can eat or you would starve

No one 'has to' play a game ... pirates/thieves - are making bad choices and are screwing with other people's income and lives ... damn thieves cost each one of us in higher prices
:thumbsdown:

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Nonsense .. the DRM is the reaction to theft .. is NOT the other way around

in the beginning .. in PC gaming there was no DRM ... thieves made it necessary. Stop attempting to justify theft ... that is a damn stupid selfish justification.
--You are not stealing "food" so you and your family can eat or you would starve

No one 'has to' play a game ... pirates/thieves - are making bad choices and are screwing with other people's income and lives ... damn thieves cost each one of us in higher prices
:thumbsdown:

So that's why console games are more expensive than pc games!

 

[apoppin]

in *that* case .. MS and Sony are the "thieves"


actually .. it costs a lot for the development of the platform ... Consolers are really "renting" the console to defray the maker's costs .. after they buy it
- you pay at least $10 [more] for each game more-or-less directly to the platform maker

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Nonsense .. the DRM is the reaction to theft .. is NOT the other way around

in the beginning .. in PC gaming there was no DRM ... thieves made it necessary. Stop attempting to justify theft ... that is a damn stupid selfish justification.
--You are not stealing "food" so you and your family can eat or you would starve

No one 'has to' play a game ... pirates/thieves - are making bad choices and are screwing with other people's income and lives ... damn thieves cost each one of us in higher prices
:thumbsdown:

Some new games have no DRM, yet are selling amazingly well. Look at Sins of a Solar Empire. #1 selling game, no big fancy licensed engine, no DRM, few bugs, yet incredibly addicting and in depth gameplay. We need more games like that.

edit: and you have to admit, cracking games you legally purchased because the DRM won't let you play it otherwise IS indeed piracy as a reaction to the DRM. It shouldn't even be piracy, games shouldn't require the disc, and yet most of them do. And since it's illegal to make a backup copy of the disc (even though it's not according to the EULA, try telling that to the DRM :|) and it's illegal to get a no cd patch or otherwise modify the game, I'm left searching for the game disc (which, of course, is never in its case) at the most inopportune time.

I really think DD services like Steam will be the future.



edit2:

Originally posted by: Delta6Echo

A good point was made with WoW...everything is controlled online, but let's be realistic. Before WoW, Blizzard also dealt with piracy. I honestly think that is the exact reason we haven't seen a WoW game that was single player since Frozen Throne.

The thing about pirating games like Diablo 2 was that it didn't work online, which is where the real game play was. I just think Blizzard got whiff of the money that could be made off their rabid fans (or, once again, was it their publisher / parent company pushing them for maximum profits?) I wish a direct download service was around back in those days. I bought 4 (yes, four) copies of D2 through the years. Broken / lost discs suck.

THQ sounds like they have no clue what they are doing. Specific checks that keep you from moving forward in a game? How do they know this didn't affect legit gamers? What if I don't want to use a CD? Are you going to make it hard for me to play a game that I just bought?

Didn't you hear? That's the whole point of DRM.

It sounds like there is more to this story and his anger should be evenly applied everywhere. Simply blaming piracy for a complete failure is easy. THQ simply wasn't prepared......and I feel REALLY bad for them

Yup, piracy is the scapegoat. I'm sure it did contribute to poor sales (even though in the article he said that it sold decently ) but I really don't think it's as big of a problem as they say it is.

 

[Canai]

Oops... I meant to hit Edit

 

[ZzZGuy]

I think the backlash against DRM has only just begun. The problems are now known to almost all gamers and said gamers are p***ed.

This year I'm pulling up my chair and watching as the developers/publishers of games shipping with horrible DRM go ballistic because virtually no one is buying their game and most playing it have pirated it. At the same time games like Sins of a Solar Empire rake in major profits by considering paying consumers first, then worrying about pirates second.

Iron Lore won't be the only company to be run into the ground this year.

 

[apoppin]

Attempting to justify piracy by pointing at DRM .. is wrong period ... and stupid "reasoning"
- it is like a thief saying 'it is your fault' your car's windows were broken because you didn't leave the door unlocked for him
:roll:

Iron Lore won't be the only company to be run into the ground this year.

Of course not, it is also a recession. i don't want to be numbered as one of the selfish and immoral ones that *contribute* to the downfall of decent company
-they deserve to make money for their work if it is good and would otherwise sell

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Attempting to justify piracy by pointing at DRM .. is wrong period ... and stupid "reasoning"
- it is like a thief saying 'it is your fault' your car's windows were broken because you didn't leave the door unlocked for him
:roll:

Iron Lore won't be the only company to be run into the ground this year.

Of course not, it is also a recession. i don't want to be numbered as one of the selfish and immoral ones that *contribute* to the downfall of decent company
-they deserve to make money for their work if it is good and would otherwise sell

I'm not attempting to justify piracy. What I'm saying is that sometimes, the only way to play a game that was legitimately purchased is to use some sort of circumvention to the DRM. See this thread for what I mean.

edit: also check out some of the DRM related posts on here.

DRM really has gone too far. What happens when piracy or waiting for the game company to release a DRM fix patch (if they do) are your only choices?

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Attempting to justify piracy by pointing at DRM .. is wrong period ... and stupid "reasoning"
- it is like a thief saying 'it is your fault' your car's windows were broken because you didn't leave the door unlocked for him
:roll:

Iron Lore won't be the only company to be run into the ground this year.

Of course not, it is also a recession. i don't want to be numbered as one of the selfish and immoral ones that *contribute* to the downfall of decent company
-they deserve to make money for their work if it is good and would otherwise sell

Where did i say it was ok to pirate a game without paying for it? It is fact that games with bad DRM will be mostly played with pirated copies in which the developer sees no money.

Now i'm going to do my part and drive these companies into the ground. It's very simple, if i don't like their DRM (or game for that matter) i will not buy it. If enough people do the same the drop in the bucket turns into a tsunami. I have enough games as it is (bought) that i do not need to go out of my way to pirate anything but i won't get upset over others pirating a game that would treat me like garbage if i bought it.

 

[apoppin]

Were did i say *you* did?

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Were did i say *you* did?

Perhaps i mistook the text above the quote as referring to me?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: apoppin
Were did i say *you* did?

Perhaps i mistook the text above the quote as referring to me?

you did ... i only used part of your quote to answer why other companies may also go out of business this year.

i am very deliberately refraining from passing judgment [even if i could] or addressing anyone specifically as "thief"

i also boycott the RIAA as i HATE their stupid policies .. i have not purchased a CD for at least two years and i will never buy another until they change their stupid policies. BMG was the best of the bastages, but i still cancelled my subscription and only buy indie[period]

and i applaud Trent Reznor [NiN] for breaking with the reactive, stupid and blindly ignorant assholes of the RIAA who are twisting our laws and wrongly using our courts to prosecute THEIR own customers and undermine our freedoms to unfairly protect their 19th century business model ... may they go out of business and become completely irrelevant

 

[RedBeard]

... Depressing read indeed...

 

[zorrt]

So....is it a good game? Didn't seem to get that great of a review by gamespot.

Don't like his comment bout bioshock, its a game with steep requirements and was released on console before PC so would could explain why it did better. But yea, why do people complain about a game they've pirated? Just stupid.

 

[skace]

TQ was a great Diablo-style game, yes.

 

[BladeVenom]

Titan Quest got a 77% average at Metacritic.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
He makes some good points.
One problem with piracy he didn't touch on is the cracks for games that are released.
People like to use the nocd version of the game executeable but need to realize that if they are experiencing problems with the game, it could be related to that file.

A new game comes out. Soon after, a crack is released. People use it instead of the original file and the game becomes unstable. The developer gets all the bad PR about the game being poorly coded. Gamers need to realize that the people who release cracks do not have the games source code and can and do make mistakes in creating these cracks.


Price of the game may seem like a simple thing, just lower it.
Wrong .
How much do you think the developer gets off each sale ?
75%, 50%, 25% ?

Its often 15% or lower.
So lowering the price of the game from the usual 49.95 to 19.95 , leaves the developer with about 3.00 off each copy sold.

They need to develop games for the pc that can be direct boot from the dvd.
Similar to the way the linux livecd concept works.
That bypasses windows, drivers installed, virus/spyware, and can help combat piracy.

I've made such a cd with quake , so I know the concept can work.

I think they should sell the games with a USB hardware key, like many much more expensive pieces of software come with. Tie the software key to the hardware key. Much easier than messing with the CD/DVD every time the end user wants to play also.