Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

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CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
This doesn't hold up to the surveilance that the US had from their satellite observations in that time frame.
We watched the area where the weaponry was kept like a hawk, 24/7 for years, and saw and tracked each
and every truck and ground vehicle that left that area until it reached it's destination.
Then we also watched each flight that left Iraq until it reached it's landing site.
Nothing was within the parameters that showed transportation of this type of material or equipment.
No 'chain of custody' of a truck or vehicle leving a weapons storage area and going to an airport and transfering a load,
no flight to a neighboring county and off-loading of suspicious cargo.

Another attempt to bullshit their way through and justify a false presentation of dubious fact.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This doesn't hold up to the surveilance that the US had from their satellite observations in that time frame.
We watched the area where the weaponry was kept like a hawk, 24/7 for years, and saw and tracked each
and every truck and ground vehicle that left that area until it reached it's destination.
Then we also watched each flight that left Iraq until it reached it's landing site.
Nothing was within the parameters that showed transportation of this type of material or equipment.
No 'chain of custody' of a truck or vehicle leving a weapons storage area and going to an airport and transfering a load,
no flight to a neighboring county and off-loading of suspicious cargo.

Another attempt to bullshit their way through and justify a false presentation of dubious fact.

What if, just one time, your beloved intelligence had their beacons turned off. What if, gasp, if it turns out, that it is NOT possible to monitor all global activities in realtime, all the time. Ever had a mouse get into your house? Did you see it? Everytime?

 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This doesn't hold up to the surveilance that the US had from their satellite observations in that time frame.
We watched the area where the weaponry was kept like a hawk, 24/7 for years, and saw and tracked each
and every truck and ground vehicle that left that area until it reached it's destination.
Then we also watched each flight that left Iraq until it reached it's landing site.
Nothing was within the parameters that showed transportation of this type of material or equipment.
No 'chain of custody' of a truck or vehicle leving a weapons storage area and going to an airport and transfering a load,
no flight to a neighboring county and off-loading of suspicious cargo.

Another attempt to bullshit their way through and justify a false presentation of dubious fact.
Don't waste your breath. The Bush fluffers here will never accept the truth (or even the mere possibility) that the Bush machine lied about the vast stockpiles of WMD and that, just maybe, they were destroyed long ago. Such a reality discredits their warmongering diatribes en masse and renders them politically vulnerable (although lying to America has been their M.O. for years).

(Just to paraphrase.)
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This doesn't hold up to the surveilance that the US had from their satellite observations in that time frame.
We watched the area where the weaponry was kept like a hawk, 24/7 for years, and saw and tracked each
and every truck and ground vehicle that left that area until it reached it's destination.
Then we also watched each flight that left Iraq until it reached it's landing site.
Nothing was within the parameters that showed transportation of this type of material or equipment.
No 'chain of custody' of a truck or vehicle leving a weapons storage area and going to an airport and transfering a load,
no flight to a neighboring county and off-loading of suspicious cargo.

Another attempt to bullshit their way through and justify a false presentation of dubious fact.
What if, just one time, your beloved intelligence had their beacons turned off. What if, gasp, if it turns out, that it is NOT possible to monitor all global activities in realtime, all the time. Ever had a mouse get into your house? Did you see it? Everytime?
Any evidence to support this? Any evidence to support the OP? If not, it's just another example of partisan wishful thinking, an unsubstantiated Bigfoot sighting with no basis in reality.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot classifies this story's credibility right up there with Bigfoot sightings.

Bushfans fairly reek of desperation on this one, and reveal themselves as delusionists, eagerly lapping up any bit of agitprop that will help to maintain their faith. Head on over to the Free Republic to witness them foaming at the mouth, chanting the usual glassy-eyed refrain.

The phenomenon is akin to mass hypnosis, and something P T Barnum would have recognized- "There's a sucker born every minute."
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think Saddam hid them on the dark side of the moon.
I too agree with Moonbeam that Saddam had a secert space program and used it to store WMDs on the on dark side of the moon.

Now, I've just got to get some newspaper to quote me on this and some stupid right-winger will post about it online...
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot classifies this story's credibility right up there with Bigfoot sightings.

Bushfans fairly reek of desperation on this one, and reveal themselves as delusionists, eagerly lapping up any bit of agitprop that will help to maintain their faith. Head on over to the Free Republic to witness them foaming at the mouth, chanting the usual glassy-eyed refrain.

The phenomenon is akin to mass hypnosis, and something P T Barnum would have recognized- "There's a sucker born every minute."
did you read the article at the link i posted in it entireity?

i don't think anyone here is saying what Sada said is unquestionably true, but he did say it along with Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, who told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

there is no fault in our questioning in light of such claims by these two officials.



 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
the logic of saying because we cant find any evidence of some action they just must have hid it well enough, therefore it must be true

please please, dont use that logic because it just simply isnt logic, its wishful thinking at best, not the first time this has been used and people just eating it up
 

Bobthelost

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,360
0
0
People tell lies. Get used to it, people who have something to gain lie like politicians, extensivly and often badly.

So, we have no supporting evidence to show these WMDs were moved to Syria, no reasons given for them to be shipped and no evidence of thier presence. There is also the issues with them being moved and the little fact that if the US gov thought they could prove that there were WMDs moved there it would have been shouted from the rooftops.

The same "brilliant" intelegence sources that said that the WMD were there managed to miss the transfer and destruction of the facilities for storage, research, design and manufacture. None of which have been found. That's the most telling bit, while a chem weapons plant is not all that different to a chem fertiliser plant the teams in Iraq will have ripped them all down to the fittings to look for any hint they were used for non legit jobs. Where are the people saying: "yes, i made WMD for sadam, here buy my book" imunity wouldn't be all that much to ask really would it?

No, it's more conspiraloonacy with no supporting evidence i'm afraid. Nothing to confirm it, plenty to discredit it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot classifies this story's credibility right up there with Bigfoot sightings.

Bushfans fairly reek of desperation on this one, and reveal themselves as delusionists, eagerly lapping up any bit of agitprop that will help to maintain their faith. Head on over to the Free Republic to witness them foaming at the mouth, chanting the usual glassy-eyed refrain.

The phenomenon is akin to mass hypnosis, and something P T Barnum would have recognized- "There's a sucker born every minute."
did you read the article at the link i posted in it entireity?

i don't think anyone here is saying what Sada said is unquestionably true, but he did say it along with Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, who told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

there is no fault in our questioning in light of such claims by these two officials.
An Israel General targeting Syria, who would have ever guessed.

 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
First, it was alleged that the Russians were complicit, and that the oh-so-evil wmd's were moved to Lebanon, the Bekaa valley- then they were moved to Syria in ambulances or trucks, or on camels, and now onboard commercial airliners, or ships circling at sea...

I like Moonbeam's hypothesis the best- ties it all together with Roswell, Aliens, and Area 51. Unless, of course, Bigfoot is an alien, and piloted the transfers himself...

How many times can the same conmen sucker the same cluster of eager and gullible marks? There's apparently no limit...

Reminds me of Battered Woman Syndrome... except that I have no sympathy whatsoever for the kind of chumpistry required to even consider such a proposition.
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,015
1
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Anyone with a brain sees through this propaganda. Go back to OT

Thats an extremely dumb thing to say. Neither of you have any proof, and somebody's BLOG is the least reliable source you could possibly get. Just because you WANT it to be true does not make it so. I don't like Bush and I didn't support the war, but that doesn't mean I have to hide my head in the sand and ignore the truth.

He definitely had them because they were seen and documented by UN inspectors. However, many of the ones that were POSITIVELY identified by the UN (and admitted to by the Iraqis) WERE NOT on the list Iraq handed over to the SC. When asked what became of them, Iraq didn't even lie and claim they'd destroyed them; they just refused to answer. So its not just intel speculation, it was confirmed by the UN and admitted by Iraq.

They certainly existed (not even open for debate), but what happened to them? Nobody knows, especially your blog, but common sense (which I realize is in short supply here) dictates that if Iraq HAD destroyed them, they would've said so in their defense before we invaded. So the ONLY thing we can say with any certainty is that they definitely existed and now they have either been moved or destroyed. Period.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
First, it was alleged that the Russians were complicit, and that the oh-so-evil wmd's were moved to Lebanon, the Bekaa valley- then they were moved to Syria in ambulances or trucks, or on camels, and now onboard commercial airliners, or ships circling at sea...

I like Moonbeam's hypothesis the best- ties it all together with Roswell, Aliens, and Area 51. Unless, of course, Bigfoot is an alien, and piloted the transfers himself...

How many times can the same conmen sucker the same cluster of eager and gullible marks? There's apparently no limit...

Reminds me of Battered Woman Syndrome... except that I have no sympathy whatsoever for the kind of chumpistry required to even consider such a proposition.
:thumbsup:

If I can offer one small clarification, I have it on good authority that Bigfoot is actually a Wookie, and that he took the missing WMDs in the Millennium Falcon, which they usually keep hidden at the secret XSA base in Atlantis. (The XSA is like a cross between the CIA and NSA, only it's double super-secret. Now that I've told all of you this, I'll have to kill you. Please remove your hands from your keyboards and wait patiently for the men in ultra-violet to knock on your door.)
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I wouldnt surprise me but we really dont have much proof.
There were known stockpiles that Iraq declared yet couldnt provide evidence of destruction. We know there are WMDs unaccounted for but have no idea where they are.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,192
44
91
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Listen to part of what Bush said about Iraqi WMD ifilm.

Try to find a citation from Powell's infamous UN speech.

Now let's assume every single gallon of biological and chemical weapons are secreted to Syria.

Now let's assume every single pound of potentially fissile material was also secreted to Syria.

What happened to weapons programs themselves? You know the weapons of mass destruction program related activities? Both Kay and Duelfer (sp?) found neither weapons NOR weapons programs. They came back with a great big ZERO. The US held every weapons expert they could find . . . several for more than a year. They were recently released . . . no charges and no weapons programs found.

Best evidence (which is overwelming) is that Saddam had a bunch of weapons in the 80s and early 90s. War with Iran used up a lot, the first Gulf War destroyed much of infrastructure, UN inspectors dismantled much that remained, and then Clinton/Blair beat him down through 1998.

Finally, Saddam said fux it. Why build crap if the Americans are just going to bomb it?! I will just build palaces, pay my stooges, and pretend I'm dangerous.


Much if not virtually all of our intelligence (and for foreign governments) was provided by people with agendas. Those agendas were dependent on creating a story that was convincing. These people knew that their Western handlers knew VERY little so ANY story they made up 1) couldn't be independently verified, 2) could easily be shopped to multiple governments, and 3) there's no consequence for a lying.

The OP cites various countries, intelligence agencies, and politicians but the information came from a VERY limited number of sources. In the most prominent cases, some foreign intelligence agencies heard the EXACT same intelligence as the US government and gave it ZERO credibility while the US then made multiple claims of substance.

Then of course, those marvelous aluminum tubes . . . where abundant information from the experts (Department of Energy) was totally ignored while the "on-message" fairy tale was repeated ad nauseum.


:thumbsup: Most rational/logical post in this thread.
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
Originally posted by: moshquerade
i have tried to accept that there were no WMD in Iraq even though our Intel had reported to the contrary, but something always bothered me about this conclusion, a nagging itch at the back of my mind. and that was the overwhelming belief by the world?s best intelligence agencies also that Saddam did indeed have stockpiles of WMD in the six months leading up to the war. the French, the British, the Germans, The Israeli?s, the United Nations (UNSCOM and IAEA), not to mention the CIA, DIA, and most politicians here in this country believed it too.

None of your sources concluded that Saddam had WMDs when DumbYa was pounding his war drum. They concluded that he may have HAD WMDs at some point in the past. Even the CIA tried to convince DumbYa that Iraq didnt have WMDs. From day one the administration wanted to go to Iraq. Would evidence sway this "steadfast leader?"
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot classifies this story's credibility right up there with Bigfoot sightings.

Bushfans fairly reek of desperation on this one, and reveal themselves as delusionists, eagerly lapping up any bit of agitprop that will help to maintain their faith. Head on over to the Free Republic to witness them foaming at the mouth, chanting the usual glassy-eyed refrain.

The phenomenon is akin to mass hypnosis, and something P T Barnum would have recognized- "There's a sucker born every minute."
did you read the article at the link i posted in it entireity?

i don't think anyone here is saying what Sada said is unquestionably true, but he did say it along with Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, who told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

there is no fault in our questioning in light of such claims by these two officials.

there's also no fault in not believing him. here is a man with political motivations, who hasn't even worked in the saddam regime for years. add to the fact that this story was printed in a not so reputable newspaper compared with the WSJ of NYT, and i have serious doubts that it's true. honestly, it's hard to separate any truth in there from the lies, so we should wait for more sources.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: compuwiz1

What if, just one time, your beloved intelligence had their beacons turned off. What if, gasp, if it turns out, that it is NOT possible to monitor all global activities in realtime, all the time. Ever had a mouse get into your house? Did you see it? Everytime?


There is a satellite coming over ther North Pole evey 4 minutes that downloads it's information to a ground station for analysis.
Before it flys South ovet the South Pole it has been given it's instruction for it's next lap as to what to look at.
The cascade is 15 satellites per hour, 360 satellites each day - continuous coverage day and night.
We can tell the diferenct between a grapefruit and a soccer ball, a man walking or riding a bicycle.
At night it can tell if the vehicles are front engine or rear engine, and it can tell what was parked where
during the daytime in a night sensor shot of an empty parking lot - 12 hours later.
We can see everything that happens - even down to some depths within the earth's upper surface crust levels.
It's good enough to see and find oil deposits underground, and discern ore deposits as well.
It can spot, register and measure surface changes on the planet less than 1/8" - up, down, and sideways.

My 'Beloved Intelligence' never sleeps, and teams of hundreds of people pour over it day and night with a microscope to analyze the data.

The data analisys is not the flaw, it's the selective introduction of infromation that people want to present
especially when the data says otherwise.

Paranoids selling fear at a fire sale is what I'm seeing from these clowns.


 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,934
10,817
147
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Paranoids selling fear at a fire sale is what I'm seeing from these clowns.
And mosh sucks from this dirty, used straw because he wants to. Your source is full of it, mosh. Try another circus.

 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
They certainly existed (not even open for debate), but what happened to them? Nobody knows, especially your blog, but common sense (which I realize is in short supply here) dictates that if Iraq HAD destroyed them, they would've said so in their defense before we invaded. So the ONLY thing we can say with any certainty is that they definitely existed and now they have either been moved or destroyed. Period.

Most of your post is utter nonsense, but there is motivation for Saddam to not explain that he destroyed weapons (if he did. You should remember that we had weapons inspectors in Iraq when DumbYa told them to leave because he was about to bomb the country to sh!t). The man is a lunatic. That is, he is a man who should NOT be trusted. All intelligence says, "sure, he had weapons once, in the past, but not anymore." And you want to believe what Saddam tells the world community? More koolaid for you...
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
0
0
Originally posted by: Velk
Assuming he had them, what is the motive for Saddam shipping his WMDs to Syria ?

As opposed to say, using them on the invading army ?

I am not sure he would put the same value on embarassing Bush as some of the posters here.


:thumbsup: A voice of reason & logic. Thank you.

Here's a secret... Saddam had nothing. If he had anything, he would have used it against an invading army trying to kill him.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,531
605
126
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Originally posted by: Velk
Assuming he had them, what is the motive for Saddam shipping his WMDs to Syria ?

As opposed to say, using them on the invading army ?

I am not sure he would put the same value on embarassing Bush as some of the posters here.


:thumbsup: A voice of reason & logic. Thank you.

Here's a secret... Saddam had nothing. If he had anything, he would have used it against an invading army trying to kill him.

Or he moved them in 2002. Let inspectors in to avoid an invasion. Was reassured by France and Russia that no invasion would happen....well Bush invaded anyway!!

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Originally posted by: Velk
Assuming he had them, what is the motive for Saddam shipping his WMDs to Syria ?

As opposed to say, using them on the invading army ?

I am not sure he would put the same value on embarassing Bush as some of the posters here.


:thumbsup: A voice of reason & logic. Thank you.

Here's a secret... Saddam had nothing. If he had anything, he would have used it against an invading army trying to kill him.
Only if they were ready for use.

 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
Mosh cannot see his own bias in all of this. He desperately wants to believe that Iraq did have massive stockpiles of WMD's because without them everything else falls apart.

We have no direct evidence or factual data to support the notion that Iraq had WMD's. Until such evidence is produced, it's best we not speculate on anything.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Nice try

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/27/112247/570
So the #2 man in Saddam Hussein's Air Force knows for sure that 2 Boeing aircraft had their seats removed and the planes filled with unspecified WMD in yellow barrels in 2002.

Georges Sada is an Assyrian Christian who was born in Iraq. It's true he was once a high-ranking officer in Saddam's Air Force but he retired in 1986.

In 1990, Saddam hired him back (right before the Persian Gulf War) because of his "ability to organize the air force" but Sada was fired less than a year later. Got it? He was not an official in Saddam's military, government or anything else after 1990.

Sada is basing his statement on un-named pilots who allegedly flew these two airplanes in 2002. And you can be sure he will never name them. It's the allegation that's the thing.

Sada was also on conservative talkshow Hannity & Colmes yesterday, also claiming the same unsubstantiated bull about Saddam flying out his WMD as part of the media blitz orchestrated by his publicist.

Sada became a born-again Christian after he was retired from the Air Force in 1986. He has been active with religious groups ever since. He is the president of the National Presbyterian Church in Baghdad and chairman of the Assembly of Iraqi Evangelical Presbyterian Churches.

He's also worked closely with Coventry Cathedral in Britain, particularly their International Center for Reconciliation, part of their international ministry. The ICR is headed up by Andrew White, who spent a lot of time in Israel and is now the Anglican vicar of Baghdad.

According to a cache of the the ICR's website, Georges Sada has been working in Iraq on their behalf for 5 years. And the cache comes from 2004, which puts Georges Sada being active in Iraq back as far as 1999.

Sada was a strong supporter of the 2003 invasion and later became a spokesperson for Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. In July 2004, Sada said this on Allawi's behalf:
"If [a guerrilla] was in opposition against the Americans, that will be justified because it was an occupation force," the spokesman, Georges Sada, said yesterday. "We will give them freedom."

So Sada is an evangelical Christian who also managed to get a top job in the post-Saddam government.


Sada meanwhile is going to meet the Senate Armed Services Committee next week. I'll see if I can't keep track of this to see what he says.

What's hilariously ironic is that Sada saved the lives of some American POW's in 1991 because mistreating them would be in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

As expected, the rightwing blogs are falling over themselves to link to old quotes from people who "suspected" Iraq had shipped its WMD to Syria.

But it's the NY Sun who accurately guesses why Sada's revelation is now surfacing:
The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a U.N. investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the U.N. investigation.

The State Department is allowing the "Syrian National Council" to meet in DC again, which is the Syrian version of Chalabi's old outfit the Iraqi National Congress, which received some 33 million dollars from the American taxpayers.

Want to see what the Syrian National Council's agenda is?

"We are not looking for reform in Syria. We want a complete change in the regime in Syria," Mohammed Aljbaili said at a press conference June 6. He described the Syrian regime under President Bashar Assad as "one of the most totalitarian rules in the world."

The Washington-based council will coordinate with opposition groups inside and outside Syria to promote democratic change in the country, according to a statement issued by the council's executive committee. In addition to Aljbaili, the other members of the executive committee are Najib Alghadban, Hussam Aldairi, Mohammed Alkhawam and Abd Almuhaymen Alsibai.

"A democratic government in Syria is likely to preserve the national interest of Syria better than any other regime," said Alghadban.

Imagine just for one minute if a group of American "dissidents" were meeting in Damascus to openly advocate the overthrow of the American government. Just imagine that for one second.

And the drum beat of war goes on...

Typical liberal, discrediting the person, not the information at hand.