Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
i have tried to accept that there were no WMD in Iraq even though our Intel had reported to the contrary, but something always bothered me about this conclusion, a nagging itch at the back of my mind. and that was the overwhelming belief by the world?s best intelligence agencies also that Saddam did indeed have stockpiles of WMD in the six months leading up to the war. the French, the British, the Germans, The Israeli?s, the United Nations (UNSCOM and IAEA), not to mention the CIA, DIA, and most politicians here in this country believed it too.

so no WMD were found and now Bush has even conceded the Intel reports were wrong, but what say you about this?


Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a U.N. investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the U.N. investigation.

The State Department recently granted visas for self-proclaimed opponents of Mr. Assad to attend a "Syrian National Council" meeting in Washington scheduled for this weekend, even though the attendees include communists, Baathists, and members of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group to the exclusion of other, more mainstream groups.

Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

"I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

"Saddam realized, this time, the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada said. "They handed over the weapons of mass destruction to the Syrians."

Mr. Sada said that the Iraqi official responsible for transferring the weapons was a cousin of Saddam Hussein named Ali Hussein al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali." The Syrian official responsible for receiving them was a cousin of Bashar Assad who is known variously as General Abu Ali, Abu Himma, or Zulhimawe.
http://www.nysun.com/article/26514?page_no=1
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
i have tried to accept that there were no WMD in Iraq even though our Intel had reported to the contrary, but something always bothered me about this conclusion, a nagging itch at the back of my mind. and that was the overwhelming belief by the world?s best intelligence agencies also that Saddam did indeed have stockpiles of WMD in the six months leading up to the war. the French, the British, the Germans, The Israeli?s, the United Nations (UNSCOM and IAEA), not to mention the CIA, DIA, and most politicians here in this country believed it too.

so no WMD were found and now Bush has even conceded the Intel reports were wrong, but what say you about this?

Certainly interesting, a lot of speculation has been made that this is exactly what happened to the WMDs. While not so certain about this, and doubts remain, it is still possible that this did occur although it would be nice to have some corroborating intel to support this claim.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Nice try

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/27/112247/570
So the #2 man in Saddam Hussein's Air Force knows for sure that 2 Boeing aircraft had their seats removed and the planes filled with unspecified WMD in yellow barrels in 2002.

Georges Sada is an Assyrian Christian who was born in Iraq. It's true he was once a high-ranking officer in Saddam's Air Force but he retired in 1986.

In 1990, Saddam hired him back (right before the Persian Gulf War) because of his "ability to organize the air force" but Sada was fired less than a year later. Got it? He was not an official in Saddam's military, government or anything else after 1990.

Sada is basing his statement on un-named pilots who allegedly flew these two airplanes in 2002. And you can be sure he will never name them. It's the allegation that's the thing.

Sada was also on conservative talkshow Hannity & Colmes yesterday, also claiming the same unsubstantiated bull about Saddam flying out his WMD as part of the media blitz orchestrated by his publicist.

Sada became a born-again Christian after he was retired from the Air Force in 1986. He has been active with religious groups ever since. He is the president of the National Presbyterian Church in Baghdad and chairman of the Assembly of Iraqi Evangelical Presbyterian Churches.

He's also worked closely with Coventry Cathedral in Britain, particularly their International Center for Reconciliation, part of their international ministry. The ICR is headed up by Andrew White, who spent a lot of time in Israel and is now the Anglican vicar of Baghdad.

According to a cache of the the ICR's website, Georges Sada has been working in Iraq on their behalf for 5 years. And the cache comes from 2004, which puts Georges Sada being active in Iraq back as far as 1999.

Sada was a strong supporter of the 2003 invasion and later became a spokesperson for Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. In July 2004, Sada said this on Allawi's behalf:
"If [a guerrilla] was in opposition against the Americans, that will be justified because it was an occupation force," the spokesman, Georges Sada, said yesterday. "We will give them freedom."

So Sada is an evangelical Christian who also managed to get a top job in the post-Saddam government.


Sada meanwhile is going to meet the Senate Armed Services Committee next week. I'll see if I can't keep track of this to see what he says.

What's hilariously ironic is that Sada saved the lives of some American POW's in 1991 because mistreating them would be in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

As expected, the rightwing blogs are falling over themselves to link to old quotes from people who "suspected" Iraq had shipped its WMD to Syria.

But it's the NY Sun who accurately guesses why Sada's revelation is now surfacing:
The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a U.N. investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the U.N. investigation.

The State Department is allowing the "Syrian National Council" to meet in DC again, which is the Syrian version of Chalabi's old outfit the Iraqi National Congress, which received some 33 million dollars from the American taxpayers.

Want to see what the Syrian National Council's agenda is?

"We are not looking for reform in Syria. We want a complete change in the regime in Syria," Mohammed Aljbaili said at a press conference June 6. He described the Syrian regime under President Bashar Assad as "one of the most totalitarian rules in the world."

The Washington-based council will coordinate with opposition groups inside and outside Syria to promote democratic change in the country, according to a statement issued by the council's executive committee. In addition to Aljbaili, the other members of the executive committee are Najib Alghadban, Hussam Aldairi, Mohammed Alkhawam and Abd Almuhaymen Alsibai.

"A democratic government in Syria is likely to preserve the national interest of Syria better than any other regime," said Alghadban.

Imagine just for one minute if a group of American "dissidents" were meeting in Damascus to openly advocate the overthrow of the American government. Just imagine that for one second.

And the drum beat of war goes on...
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: moshquerade
i have tried to accept that there were no WMD in Iraq even though our Intel had reported to the contrary, but something always bothered me about this conclusion, a nagging itch at the back of my mind. and that was the overwhelming belief by the world?s best intelligence agencies also that Saddam did indeed have stockpiles of WMD in the six months leading up to the war. the French, the British, the Germans, The Israeli?s, the United Nations (UNSCOM and IAEA), not to mention the CIA, DIA, and most politicians here in this country believed it too.

so no WMD were found and now Bush has even conceded the Intel reports were wrong, but what say you about this?

Certainly interesting, a lot of speculation has been made that this is exactly what happened to the WMDs. While not so certain about this, and doubts remain, it is still possible that this did occur although it would be nice to have some corroborating intel to support this claim.
yeh, i am not 100% sold on this, but i still find it hard to buy that our Intel could be so faulty.
and moving the WMD as such would make sense.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

Nice job attack the source, not the information. :roll:
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
If this is true, and our intelligence services have not been incompetent bunglers in the middle east, then why haven't our services noticed anything about WMD in Syria?

With nothing but his word, we have nothing.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

Nice job attack the source, not the information. :roll:
as if conjur wouldn't have done the same :laugh:

conjur's source says and he bolded it: "Sada is basing his statement on un-named pilots who allegedly flew these two airplanes in 2002. And you can be sure he will never name them. It's the allegation that's the thing."

Sada says in the NYSun: ""I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq."

see how conjur's blog site is trying to slant things? obviously Sada is not going to name the pilots involved for safety reasons. he has expressed a fear for his life and his family's lives too due to release of this information.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

It's not about DIScrediting...the guy has no credit to begin with. He was not a government official at the time of alleged "secreting", and he has not provided a shred of proof. Oh, and he hasn't said anything until now, right around the time he's going around trying to sell his book.

Needless to say, this doesn't mean he is lying, he could in fact be right. But on the one hand we have had years to look for evidence that the WMDs were there, and we have found zip. And on the other hand, we have some dude with no credibility saying something totally opposite. All else being equal, I'll believe the other story if you don't mind. If he get's some actual evidence of some kind, I'd be more than happy to listen. But right now he's kind of like the Swift Boat Vets of Iraqi WMDs.

Needless to say, that doesn't help your "nagging itch", but perhaps you'll just have to live with it until all the details come out. Maybe everyone involved is an incompetent moron. Maybe Bush applied political pressure to our intelligence agencies to generate analysis that supported him. Maybe Saddam really DID have WMDs, and somehow he managed to hide them from us.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If this is true, and our intelligence services have not been incompetent bunglers in the middle east, then why haven't our services noticed anything about WMD in Syria?

With nothing but his word, we have nothing.
click on the link i provided in the first post and read the whole article.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

Nice job attack the source, not the information. :roll:
as if conjur wouldn't have done the same :laugh:

conjur's source says and he bolded it: "Sada is basing his statement on un-named pilots who allegedly flew these two airplanes in 2002. And you can be sure he will never name them. It's the allegation that's the thing."

Sada says in the NYSun: ""I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq."

see how conjur's blog site is trying to slant things? obviously Sada is not going to name the pilots involved for safety reasons. he has expressed a fear for his life and his family's lives too due to release of this information.

Actually, YOU are the one slanting things. You're providing an excuse for Sada, or a reason if you prefer. But whatever the reason he's not providing the names, he's still not providing the names, which means we have no way of verifying his story. Whether this is because he's lying or trying to protect people, it doesn't matter. We don't have any way to validate what he's saying, he's making a claim with no proof to back it up.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If this is true, and our intelligence services have not been incompetent bunglers in the middle east, then why haven't our services noticed anything about WMD in Syria?

With nothing but his word, we have nothing.
click on the link i provided in the first post and read the whole article to see the laughable BS I spread.
fixed

---------------------------------
A pattern of personal attacks is starting to develop

If it continues, this will be locked

Mod

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

Nice job attack the source, not the information. :roll:
as if conjur wouldn't have done the same :laugh:

conjur's source says and he bolded it: "Sada is basing his statement on un-named pilots who allegedly flew these two airplanes in 2002. And you can be sure he will never name them. It's the allegation that's the thing."

Sada says in the NYSun: ""I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq."

see how conjur's blog site is trying to slant things? obviously Sada is not going to name the pilots involved for safety reasons. he has expressed a fear for his life and his family's lives too due to release of this information.

Actually, YOU are the one slanting things. You're providing an excuse for Sada, or a reason if you prefer. But whatever the reason he's not providing the names, he's still not providing the names, which means we have no way of verifying his story. Whether this is because he's lying or trying to protect people, it doesn't matter. We don't have any way to validate what he's saying, he's making a claim with no proof to back it up.
i would like the names too, as i've already stated i am not 100% sold on this.

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If this is true, and our intelligence services have not been incompetent bunglers in the middle east, then why haven't our services noticed anything about WMD in Syria?

With nothing but his word, we have nothing.
click on the link i provided in the first post and read the whole article to see the laughable BS I spread.
fixed
you are pathetic.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

Nice job attack the source, not the information. :roll:
as if conjur wouldn't have done the same :laugh:

conjur's source says and he bolded it: "Sada is basing his statement on un-named pilots who allegedly flew these two airplanes in 2002. And you can be sure he will never name them. It's the allegation that's the thing."

Sada says in the NYSun: ""I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq."

see how conjur's blog site is trying to slant things? obviously Sada is not going to name the pilots involved for safety reasons. he has expressed a fear for his life and his family's lives too due to release of this information.

Actually, YOU are the one slanting things. You're providing an excuse for Sada, or a reason if you prefer. But whatever the reason he's not providing the names, he's still not providing the names, which means we have no way of verifying his story. Whether this is because he's lying or trying to protect people, it doesn't matter. We don't have any way to validate what he's saying, he's making a claim with no proof to back it up.
i would like the names too, as i've already stated i am not 100% sold on this.

Fair enough, but I don't see why you're sold at all. Sure, it helps explain some things, but it's a convenient explanation, not a well supported one.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Anyone with a brain sees through this propaganda. Go back to OT


------------------------------------------------------
Personal attacks are starting to develop

Mod

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: conjur
Anyone with a brain sees through this propaganda. Go back to OT
i think anyone with a brain would like to discuss this topic civilly, and OT is not the place for this topic. that is why i brought it here.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: moshquerade
nice try what? your blogger site wants to discredit this guy?

Nice job attack the source, not the information. :roll:
mosh's pathetic m.o.


But thats exactly the same thing the author of that dailykos story did when he attacked the source (sada) without actually presenting any facts that contradict his story.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: conjur
Anyone with a brain sees through this propaganda. Go back to OT
i think anyone with a brain would like to discuss this topic civilly, and OT is not the place for this topic. that is why i brought it here.

:thumbsup: