Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Think again about who is going to build this "strong nation" . Nice strawman building, too. Not one liberal on this board ever said or implied they wanted the election to fail. How WAS is going to fail anyway Condor? Like no one was going to show up? Too bad these brave, brave people did not have the courage to do this THEMSELVES a long, long time ago. Remember while you repugs are high 5'ing each other like you actually won a prize, that a thousand+ Amercans died for this, show them some respect and put your partisan tripe on the back burner for one day.
The only way for these people to not have died in vane is for this election to work, for the IRAQI people to START STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES, and with our help and THEIR own police, security, etc, make these insurgants a distant memory. Then get our boys and girls the hell out of there.for those who have fallen.
Liberals have done nothing but give the impression that they want this election to fail, this war to fail, and for America to fail. They are the most negative and miserable group of human beings that exist in the world today. As a matter of fact, I can't think of one truly positive and happy liberal. They want this election to fail because they want BUSH to fail. If Bush fails, then they're happy. They are so wrapped up in their own anger they don't care about the Iraqis. They really don't care about the soilders either. They continuously make statements thath demoralize the troops, continuously making statements about how we shouldn't get too excited about this election because it will fail, continuously make statements that the insurgents that BEHEAD people, and KILL THEMSELVES ALONG WITH OTHERS, are only a political opposition group that has rights just like the Iraqi people.
It is the liberals like you that say that the Iraqi people and soilders (I assume) will have died in vain if this election fails. B.S.! No one fighting for freedom has died in vain. They died for a cause they believe in, something you obviously don't respect or understand. You need to take a long look at yourself and ask yourself if anyone should have died for any of the rights you have in this life. Do you think that every battle that was fought for your rights was won right away? When you're fighting for something sometimes you have to get up again and again until freedom prevails. I can only assume you're a quitter. You're one of those people who just wants to give up and be able to say these people died in vain if this election doesn't work. Who are YOU to decide that these people died in vain? Who are YOU? A nobody. A nobody that is so miserable with your own life, you can't stand to see President Bush suceed, you can't stand to see the Iraqi people suceed, and you can't stand to hear that people like you are just as bad as the insurgents. The reason you can't stand sucess, is because your probably nothing but a big failure yourself.
So, of these two groups, who has killed more Iraqis?
1. The US.
2. The insurgents.
My problem is not with conservatives, but bloodthirsty asses who sell democracy at the point of a gun. I think both groups get off on the bloodletting. I believe nothing excites them so much as the thought of blowing up "terrorists" whether they are such or not. Collateral damage is a nice catch all phrase for a child leaning over a dead parent because your President wanted it to be.
It isn't democracy most of us oppose, but your patriotic fervor and you animalistic desire to convert or kill. I know why you are happy. It's because you are getting to murder, and don't even have to do it yourself.
At least have the courage to get up close and personal and stick the knife in yourself.
Winston, I'm not stupid enough to stick the knife in myself that the many that voted for Kerry threatened to do when he lost the election. You see, I'm a sane person. Do you know what that word means? If you look it up in the dictionary, you will see that you do not fit that description. The insurgents, many former Saddam thugs killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Do you remember hearing about the mass graves, the torture chambers, and the plastic shredders that were used to shred Iraqi people? Hmm. I wonder who the bad guys are? The Iraqi people were not forced by gun to vote. Many families dressed in their finest clothes to go vote. What about the chilldren that SADDAM killed? What about the parents of the children that SADDAM killed? Why don't we ever hear any outrage about that?
I assure you that there is no animalistic desire to convert or kill within myself. I think Saddam may have had an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. I think the insurgents who beheaded innocent contractors with dull knives have an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. If people or conservatives like me had this desire you so speak of, do you think people like you would exist in America? I don't think so. You have obviously watched too many movies in your lifetime and your perspective of reality is skewed.
You're statements are so funny! Thanks for laugh! You people crack me up!
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I'm sure we've killed more "Iraqis" -but you must remember that the Iraqis we do target and do kill are trying to kill our troops. If you want to claim "innocent" Iraqis - then fine. The body count from their election day was close to 50 from what I've read. Yep, that wasn't us - that was done by those who oppose the Iraqi people actually having a say.
Oh, and this idea that we are imposing democracy at the end of a gun is pure drivel. Removing an oppressive regime and then providing security so the people of the country can actually have a say in their leadership is not "imposing". Ofcourse I suppose I'm a bit biased because I actually believe people want to be free and have the right to have a say...
CsG
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Think again about who is going to build this "strong nation" . Nice strawman building, too. Not one liberal on this board ever said or implied they wanted the election to fail. How WAS is going to fail anyway Condor? Like no one was going to show up? Too bad these brave, brave people did not have the courage to do this THEMSELVES a long, long time ago. Remember while you repugs are high 5'ing each other like you actually won a prize, that a thousand+ Amercans died for this, show them some respect and put your partisan tripe on the back burner for one day.
The only way for these people to not have died in vane is for this election to work, for the IRAQI people to START STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES, and with our help and THEIR own police, security, etc, make these insurgants a distant memory. Then get our boys and girls the hell out of there.for those who have fallen.
Liberals have done nothing but give the impression that they want this election to fail, this war to fail, and for America to fail. They are the most negative and miserable group of human beings that exist in the world today. As a matter of fact, I can't think of one truly positive and happy liberal. They want this election to fail because they want BUSH to fail. If Bush fails, then they're happy. They are so wrapped up in their own anger they don't care about the Iraqis. They really don't care about the soilders either. They continuously make statements thath demoralize the troops, continuously making statements about how we shouldn't get too excited about this election because it will fail, continuously make statements that the insurgents that BEHEAD people, and KILL THEMSELVES ALONG WITH OTHERS, are only a political opposition group that has rights just like the Iraqi people.
It is the liberals like you that say that the Iraqi people and soilders (I assume) will have died in vain if this election fails. B.S.! No one fighting for freedom has died in vain. They died for a cause they believe in, something you obviously don't respect or understand. You need to take a long look at yourself and ask yourself if anyone should have died for any of the rights you have in this life. Do you think that every battle that was fought for your rights was won right away? When you're fighting for something sometimes you have to get up again and again until freedom prevails. I can only assume you're a quitter. You're one of those people who just wants to give up and be able to say these people died in vain if this election doesn't work. Who are YOU to decide that these people died in vain? Who are YOU? A nobody. A nobody that is so miserable with your own life, you can't stand to see President Bush suceed, you can't stand to see the Iraqi people suceed, and you can't stand to hear that people like you are just as bad as the insurgents. The reason you can't stand sucess, is because your probably nothing but a big failure yourself.
So, of these two groups, who has killed more Iraqis?
1. The US.
2. The insurgents.
My problem is not with conservatives, but bloodthirsty asses who sell democracy at the point of a gun. I think both groups get off on the bloodletting. I believe nothing excites them so much as the thought of blowing up "terrorists" whether they are such or not. Collateral damage is a nice catch all phrase for a child leaning over a dead parent because your President wanted it to be.
It isn't democracy most of us oppose, but your patriotic fervor and you animalistic desire to convert or kill. I know why you are happy. It's because you are getting to murder, and don't even have to do it yourself.
At least have the courage to get up close and personal and stick the knife in yourself.
Winston, I'm not stupid enough to stick the knife in myself that the many that voted for Kerry threatened to do when he lost the election. You see, I'm a sane person. Do you know what that word means? If you look it up in the dictionary, you will see that you do not fit that description. The insurgents, many former Saddam thugs killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Do you remember hearing about the mass graves, the torture chambers, and the plastic shredders that were used to shred Iraqi people? Hmm. I wonder who the bad guys are? The Iraqi people were not forced by gun to vote. Many families dressed in their finest clothes to go vote. What about the chilldren that SADDAM killed? What about the parents of the children that SADDAM killed? Why don't we ever hear any outrage about that?
I assure you that there is no animalistic desire to convert or kill within myself. I think Saddam may have had an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. I think the insurgents who beheaded innocent contractors with dull knives have an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. If people or conservatives like me had this desire you so speak of, do you think people like you would exist in America? I don't think so. You have obviously watched too many movies in your lifetime and your perspective of reality is skewed.
You're statements are so funny! Thanks for laugh! You people crack me up!
Little girl I have killed for this country. Close and personal. You disregard your countries responsibility by point to the actions of another. Let me tell you I have seen families grieve over their dead. Do you think it's all clean and neat? You exist in america because of people like me who have done the dirty work. Let me tell you most of us would do it again, but would much rather achieve the ends by much less than full scale war. So when you start preaching about thing you have no knowlege of, I suggest you consider what you say to that mother holding her dead child because they got caught in a firefight. Going to hand them a Jeb in '08 sticker?
There are alternatives to what we have. Only a scoundrel would be proud of being "the war President" That is the marker of failure and shame. We did not have to proceed as we did, but you go on thinking we did. The rest of us will carry on nicely, thank you.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
- 33
- 81
Wow. Such a contrast to all the doom and gloom being reported by ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN! You know the LIBS hate this kind of good news!
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Think again about who is going to build this "strong nation" . Nice strawman building, too. Not one liberal on this board ever said or implied they wanted the election to fail. How WAS is going to fail anyway Condor? Like no one was going to show up? Too bad these brave, brave people did not have the courage to do this THEMSELVES a long, long time ago. Remember while you repugs are high 5'ing each other like you actually won a prize, that a thousand+ Amercans died for this, show them some respect and put your partisan tripe on the back burner for one day.
The only way for these people to not have died in vane is for this election to work, for the IRAQI people to START STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES, and with our help and THEIR own police, security, etc, make these insurgants a distant memory. Then get our boys and girls the hell out of there.for those who have fallen.
Liberals have done nothing but give the impression that they want this election to fail, this war to fail, and for America to fail. They are the most negative and miserable group of human beings that exist in the world today. As a matter of fact, I can't think of one truly positive and happy liberal. They want this election to fail because they want BUSH to fail. If Bush fails, then they're happy. They are so wrapped up in their own anger they don't care about the Iraqis. They really don't care about the soilders either. They continuously make statements thath demoralize the troops, continuously making statements about how we shouldn't get too excited about this election because it will fail, continuously make statements that the insurgents that BEHEAD people, and KILL THEMSELVES ALONG WITH OTHERS, are only a political opposition group that has rights just like the Iraqi people.
It is the liberals like you that say that the Iraqi people and soilders (I assume) will have died in vain if this election fails. B.S.! No one fighting for freedom has died in vain. They died for a cause they believe in, something you obviously don't respect or understand. You need to take a long look at yourself and ask yourself if anyone should have died for any of the rights you have in this life. Do you think that every battle that was fought for your rights was won right away? When you're fighting for something sometimes you have to get up again and again until freedom prevails. I can only assume you're a quitter. You're one of those people who just wants to give up and be able to say these people died in vain if this election doesn't work. Who are YOU to decide that these people died in vain? Who are YOU? A nobody. A nobody that is so miserable with your own life, you can't stand to see President Bush suceed, you can't stand to see the Iraqi people suceed, and you can't stand to hear that people like you are just as bad as the insurgents. The reason you can't stand sucess, is because your probably nothing but a big failure yourself.
for the trollette. Go hide back under your rock. Post links to any threads where any liberal here stated that a failed election would mean a loss for George Bush. Get over yourself. You pugs have been waiting on the edge of your chairs for the 30th of January to roll around so you could toss sh!t at a bunch of strawmen that you have built up that simply don't exist. And I am sure all the dead soldiers would like to thank you for informing us all they all died fighting for what they believe in. You lost any credibility after that partisan tripe. So happy to know "Michelle" speaks for them all. Grow up.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Ooh, I like you.
You're right - people want this election to fail and Iraq to fall solely because they dislike President Bush. They can B.S. about not liking his 'agenda' or 'cowboy policies' or whatnot, but it boils down to a sophormoric dislike for the individual - and it shows in every disparaging comment made.
IMO, not a one of those soldiers died in vain for the cause for democracy and freedom from the Hussein regime in Iraq. I think you're right on that count.
IMO, the refusal to take the long view on these events is triggered by partisanship. If you believe in democracy, what alternative is really there but to tout it internationally? We're all ideologues, and once in a while you are forced to fight for your beliefs. I wonder at the thought processes of those who don't agree with this. Democracy won't naturally succeed just because it's a better system than the rest. You occasionally have to put some elbow grease into it. That can mean war, it can mean death, it can mean short term losses in the quest for long term success. As Americans, frankly, the lot of you are target numero uno for those opposed to democratic ideals. Nice fluffy words and conferences and dialogue won't solve every problem you're faced with. So wise the fsck up.
I'll dispute one of your points though. There are plenty of upbeat, constructively-thinking liberals out there in the world. It's just that the party in opposition, no matter which of the two it is, seems to have this divine pledge to act like middle-aged preschoolers. The whining is incessant and only stops for the period of time their talking heads are in power. Democrats, Republicans, left, right, they're all the same in this. Come next election, we may well see another role reversal.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
First off, I'm quite sure she is no "little girl" as she seems quite educated and knowledgeable from the posts of hers I've read.
Next, just because you've "killed for this country" doesn't mean your answer is the right answer, nor does it mean our answer is wrong.
No, we don't WANT WAR - but we will support it when necessary. I'm not going to go back and rehash my stance on why it was necessary because I've done so a hundred times and my position has been quite consistent since the first stage of this engagement with Saddam in '91. Your blatant disregard for the failings of Saddam is appalling but not surprising. It seems that in people's desperation to hate Bush - they want to overlook the person responsible for this whole issue - Saddam. He failed to act - Bush didn't.
Sure, there are always alternatives and options other than WAR - they were tried for how many years? Exactly...
No, we didn't have to proceed like we did, but we damn well shouldn't have continued to turn an appeasing blind eye to Saddam.
CsG
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Think again about who is going to build this "strong nation" . Nice strawman building, too. Not one liberal on this board ever said or implied they wanted the election to fail. How WAS is going to fail anyway Condor? Like no one was going to show up? Too bad these brave, brave people did not have the courage to do this THEMSELVES a long, long time ago. Remember while you repugs are high 5'ing each other like you actually won a prize, that a thousand+ Amercans died for this, show them some respect and put your partisan tripe on the back burner for one day.
The only way for these people to not have died in vane is for this election to work, for the IRAQI people to START STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES, and with our help and THEIR own police, security, etc, make these insurgants a distant memory. Then get our boys and girls the hell out of there.for those who have fallen.
Liberals have done nothing but give the impression that they want this election to fail, this war to fail, and for America to fail. They are the most negative and miserable group of human beings that exist in the world today. As a matter of fact, I can't think of one truly positive and happy liberal. They want this election to fail because they want BUSH to fail. If Bush fails, then they're happy. They are so wrapped up in their own anger they don't care about the Iraqis. They really don't care about the soilders either. They continuously make statements thath demoralize the troops, continuously making statements about how we shouldn't get too excited about this election because it will fail, continuously make statements that the insurgents that BEHEAD people, and KILL THEMSELVES ALONG WITH OTHERS, are only a political opposition group that has rights just like the Iraqi people.
It is the liberals like you that say that the Iraqi people and soilders (I assume) will have died in vain if this election fails. B.S.! No one fighting for freedom has died in vain. They died for a cause they believe in, something you obviously don't respect or understand. You need to take a long look at yourself and ask yourself if anyone should have died for any of the rights you have in this life. Do you think that every battle that was fought for your rights was won right away? When you're fighting for something sometimes you have to get up again and again until freedom prevails. I can only assume you're a quitter. You're one of those people who just wants to give up and be able to say these people died in vain if this election doesn't work. Who are YOU to decide that these people died in vain? Who are YOU? A nobody. A nobody that is so miserable with your own life, you can't stand to see President Bush suceed, you can't stand to see the Iraqi people suceed, and you can't stand to hear that people like you are just as bad as the insurgents. The reason you can't stand sucess, is because your probably nothing but a big failure yourself.
So, of these two groups, who has killed more Iraqis?
1. The US.
2. The insurgents.
My problem is not with conservatives, but bloodthirsty asses who sell democracy at the point of a gun. I think both groups get off on the bloodletting. I believe nothing excites them so much as the thought of blowing up "terrorists" whether they are such or not. Collateral damage is a nice catch all phrase for a child leaning over a dead parent because your President wanted it to be.
It isn't democracy most of us oppose, but your patriotic fervor and you animalistic desire to convert or kill. I know why you are happy. It's because you are getting to murder, and don't even have to do it yourself.
At least have the courage to get up close and personal and stick the knife in yourself.
Winston, I'm not stupid enough to stick the knife in myself that the many that voted for Kerry threatened to do when he lost the election. You see, I'm a sane person. Do you know what that word means? If you look it up in the dictionary, you will see that you do not fit that description. The insurgents, many former Saddam thugs killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Do you remember hearing about the mass graves, the torture chambers, and the plastic shredders that were used to shred Iraqi people? Hmm. I wonder who the bad guys are? The Iraqi people were not forced by gun to vote. Many families dressed in their finest clothes to go vote. What about the chilldren that SADDAM killed? What about the parents of the children that SADDAM killed? Why don't we ever hear any outrage about that?
I assure you that there is no animalistic desire to convert or kill within myself. I think Saddam may have had an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. I think the insurgents who beheaded innocent contractors with dull knives have an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. If people or conservatives like me had this desire you so speak of, do you think people like you would exist in America? I don't think so. You have obviously watched too many movies in your lifetime and your perspective of reality is skewed.
You're statements are so funny! Thanks for laugh! You people crack me up!
Little girl I have killed for this country. Close and personal. You disregard your countries responsibility by point to the actions of another. Let me tell you I have seen families grieve over their dead. Do you think it's all clean and neat? You exist in america because of people like me who have done the dirty work. Let me tell you most of us would do it again, but would much rather achieve the ends by much less than full scale war. So when you start preaching about thing you have no knowlege of, I suggest you consider what you say to that mother holding her dead child because they got caught in a firefight. Going to hand them a Jeb in '08 sticker?
There are alternatives to what we have. Only a scoundrel would be proud of being "the war President" That is the marker of failure and shame. We did not have to proceed as we did, but you go on thinking we did. The rest of us will carry on nicely, thank you.
You've killed for this country? Was it worth it? You've done the dirty work for my freedom? People like my father and my husband have done a lot of the dirty work for people like you too, little man.
I find it funny that someone like you accuses me of having an animalistic desire to CONVERT or KILL, and then connect my happiness with the Iraqi people voting as stemming from a desire to murder, PREPOSTEROUS! I've seen people grieve over their dead, as well. A lot of us have. Don't presume you're the only one who has experienced this hardship. What do you say to the child who has lost their raped and tortured mother at the hands of Saddam? What do you say to the families of the 300,000.00 + dead that Saddam was responsible for? You think there was a better way to handle this? Tell me.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
*nods*
It really is quite simple. War if necessary, but not necessarily war. To be frank, if you believe this war is about providing Haliburton with contracts or a cheap price on oil, you are most certainly a moron. This is most primarily about stopping something before it gets started. You want to perch up high in your little backwoods country and crow about your hate for the West and how you wish it would be destroyed? Better think twice because that crap isn't going to be tolerated anymore. Free speech can kiss my ass when it's calling for the destruction of me, my country and my way of life.
If this war was fought under Gore, probably about 1% of you would actually have been against it. It's blatantly obvious that you're rising to a new height in whining solely because it's the partisan thing to do. Don't think that's not obvious.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
ROFL. Look who pipes up when I mention Bush fluffers and mindless parrots. False alarm Rip, you can crawl back under your bridge. I was talking about a different troll.
Any chance of Michelle, et al, documenting her (?) claim that "Liberals have done nothing but give the impression that they want this election to fail, this war to fail, and for America to fail."? Any chance of one of the few remaining reasoned righties here denouncing her attack for the BS that it is? You can damn well bet they'd be all over the left for making a similarly broad and dishonest slur.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
And once more you ignore the fact that other means to achieve a desired goal do not always mean the most extreme. I know that Saddam was a brutal petty dictator, like many before him. I EXPECT people like him to do as he did. Saddam killed the Iraqis he did, and we killed the Iraqis we did. Saddam MADE us do it? Really? Saddam was so powerful that he could force the US to attack and kill tens of thousands to get one man?
No we have the blood of innocents on our hands. Saddam should burn in hell, as all who caused this war.
Appeasment? You been reading SF books? We had him locked in a box. We needed to "appease" him as much as a hamster in a cage, and he was that much of a threat to us.
Sorry pal, don't duck it. We decided that killing innocent Iraqis was worth it. We made the calculated decision to launch a first strike war for no reason other than to get rid of Saddam. The justification was lacking so WMDs were dragged up as certainties. Failing this, it's Liberation!
Well I hope they truely get liberated and we get the hell out and leave these poor people alone.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Don't feed the home schooled backwoods troll. No sense in arguing with a teenage boy that pretends to be a girl.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
We aren't responsible for what he says. You attacked me and the libs here in general. Waiting for links....
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Isn't it odd that the ones that want the troops to come home and stop dying are the ones blamed for "wishing more dead" and hoping Iraq implodes because it satisfies the secret agenda we have? Like Iraq succeeding or failing makes Bush look any better or worse.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Michelle
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Think again about who is going to build this "strong nation" . Nice strawman building, too. Not one liberal on this board ever said or implied they wanted the election to fail. How WAS is going to fail anyway Condor? Like no one was going to show up? Too bad these brave, brave people did not have the courage to do this THEMSELVES a long, long time ago. Remember while you repugs are high 5'ing each other like you actually won a prize, that a thousand+ Amercans died for this, show them some respect and put your partisan tripe on the back burner for one day.
The only way for these people to not have died in vane is for this election to work, for the IRAQI people to START STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES, and with our help and THEIR own police, security, etc, make these insurgants a distant memory. Then get our boys and girls the hell out of there.for those who have fallen.
Liberals have done nothing but give the impression that they want this election to fail, this war to fail, and for America to fail. They are the most negative and miserable group of human beings that exist in the world today. As a matter of fact, I can't think of one truly positive and happy liberal. They want this election to fail because they want BUSH to fail. If Bush fails, then they're happy. They are so wrapped up in their own anger they don't care about the Iraqis. They really don't care about the soilders either. They continuously make statements thath demoralize the troops, continuously making statements about how we shouldn't get too excited about this election because it will fail, continuously make statements that the insurgents that BEHEAD people, and KILL THEMSELVES ALONG WITH OTHERS, are only a political opposition group that has rights just like the Iraqi people.
It is the liberals like you that say that the Iraqi people and soilders (I assume) will have died in vain if this election fails. B.S.! No one fighting for freedom has died in vain. They died for a cause they believe in, something you obviously don't respect or understand. You need to take a long look at yourself and ask yourself if anyone should have died for any of the rights you have in this life. Do you think that every battle that was fought for your rights was won right away? When you're fighting for something sometimes you have to get up again and again until freedom prevails. I can only assume you're a quitter. You're one of those people who just wants to give up and be able to say these people died in vain if this election doesn't work. Who are YOU to decide that these people died in vain? Who are YOU? A nobody. A nobody that is so miserable with your own life, you can't stand to see President Bush suceed, you can't stand to see the Iraqi people suceed, and you can't stand to hear that people like you are just as bad as the insurgents. The reason you can't stand sucess, is because your probably nothing but a big failure yourself.
So, of these two groups, who has killed more Iraqis?
1. The US.
2. The insurgents.
My problem is not with conservatives, but bloodthirsty asses who sell democracy at the point of a gun. I think both groups get off on the bloodletting. I believe nothing excites them so much as the thought of blowing up "terrorists" whether they are such or not. Collateral damage is a nice catch all phrase for a child leaning over a dead parent because your President wanted it to be.
It isn't democracy most of us oppose, but your patriotic fervor and you animalistic desire to convert or kill. I know why you are happy. It's because you are getting to murder, and don't even have to do it yourself.
At least have the courage to get up close and personal and stick the knife in yourself.
Winston, I'm not stupid enough to stick the knife in myself that the many that voted for Kerry threatened to do when he lost the election. You see, I'm a sane person. Do you know what that word means? If you look it up in the dictionary, you will see that you do not fit that description. The insurgents, many former Saddam thugs killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Do you remember hearing about the mass graves, the torture chambers, and the plastic shredders that were used to shred Iraqi people? Hmm. I wonder who the bad guys are? The Iraqi people were not forced by gun to vote. Many families dressed in their finest clothes to go vote. What about the chilldren that SADDAM killed? What about the parents of the children that SADDAM killed? Why don't we ever hear any outrage about that?
I assure you that there is no animalistic desire to convert or kill within myself. I think Saddam may have had an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. I think the insurgents who beheaded innocent contractors with dull knives have an animalistic desire to CONVERT and KILL. If people or conservatives like me had this desire you so speak of, do you think people like you would exist in America? I don't think so. You have obviously watched too many movies in your lifetime and your perspective of reality is skewed.
You're statements are so funny! Thanks for laugh! You people crack me up!
Little girl I have killed for this country. Close and personal. You disregard your countries responsibility by point to the actions of another. Let me tell you I have seen families grieve over their dead. Do you think it's all clean and neat? You exist in america because of people like me who have done the dirty work. Let me tell you most of us would do it again, but would much rather achieve the ends by much less than full scale war. So when you start preaching about thing you have no knowlege of, I suggest you consider what you say to that mother holding her dead child because they got caught in a firefight. Going to hand them a Jeb in '08 sticker?
There are alternatives to what we have. Only a scoundrel would be proud of being "the war President" That is the marker of failure and shame. We did not have to proceed as we did, but you go on thinking we did. The rest of us will carry on nicely, thank you.
You've killed for this country? Was it worth it? You've done the dirty work for my freedom? People like my father and my husband have done a lot of the dirty work for people like you too, little man.
I find it funny that someone like you accuses me of having an animalistic desire to CONVERT or KILL, and then connect my happiness with the Iraqi people voting as stemming from a desire to murder, PREPOSTEROUS! I've seen people grieve over their dead, as well. A lot of us have. Don't presume you're the only one who has experienced this hardship. What do you say to the child who has lost their raped and tortured mother at the hands of Saddam? What do you say to the families of the 300,000.00 + dead that Saddam was responsible for? You think there was a better way to handle this? Tell me.
Many had ideas how this could have been handled differently. Saddam could have been so tightly locked down he could hardly breathe. We did it with the no fly zone. We could have extended that principle and choke him. We could have tried at least. No, got to have our little war. However you once again miss the point that because someone kills the innocent, it does not justify doing the same.
So your argument is "well it could be worse kid. Saddam could have done it instead of me." I know what Saddam did. I know what we did too. You think in terms of Good US vs Bad them. Well sometimes both sides do things they should not. Saddam? Hell, any of us could have gladly put a bullet in his brain. The problem is who elses brains do you have to blow up to get his? Doesn't matter much? Well your attitude says so. As long as Saddam kills 300,000 it's ok to kill 30k.
Was it worth it for me? Hmm... that depends on the day. Often after reading generalizations about people who have sincere doubts when marching into countries guns blazing I think not.
Far as your father and husband go, we'll call it even. You personally havent done a damn thing.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
"The nations in the Middle East are independent, except for Iraq, which began the 20th century under Ottoman occupation and is now beginning the 21st century under American occupation.
Iraq could very well be another Algeria, where the French won the military battle for Algiers, but ultimately lost the political battle for Algeria.
Despite the clear lesson of history, the President stubbornly clings to the false hope that the turning point is just around the corner.
The ending of the rule of Saddam Hussein was supposed to lessen violence and bring an irresistible wave of democracy to the Middle East. It hasn?t. Saddam Hussein?s capture was supposed to quell the violence. It didn?t. The transfer of sovereignty was supposed to be the breakthrough. It wasn?t. The military operation in Fallujah was supposed to break the back of the insurgency. It didn?t."
"We all hope for the best from Sunday?s election. The Iraqis have a right to determine their own future. But Sunday?s election is not a cure for the violence and instability. Unless the Sunni and all the other communities in Iraq believe they have a stake in the outcome and a genuine role in drafting the new Iraqi constitution, the election could lead to greater alienation, greater escalation, and greater death ? for us and for the Iraqis."
Quotes from Ted.
Iraq could very well be another Algeria, where the French won the military battle for Algiers, but ultimately lost the political battle for Algeria.
Despite the clear lesson of history, the President stubbornly clings to the false hope that the turning point is just around the corner.
The ending of the rule of Saddam Hussein was supposed to lessen violence and bring an irresistible wave of democracy to the Middle East. It hasn?t. Saddam Hussein?s capture was supposed to quell the violence. It didn?t. The transfer of sovereignty was supposed to be the breakthrough. It wasn?t. The military operation in Fallujah was supposed to break the back of the insurgency. It didn?t."
"We all hope for the best from Sunday?s election. The Iraqis have a right to determine their own future. But Sunday?s election is not a cure for the violence and instability. Unless the Sunni and all the other communities in Iraq believe they have a stake in the outcome and a genuine role in drafting the new Iraqi constitution, the election could lead to greater alienation, greater escalation, and greater death ? for us and for the Iraqis."
Quotes from Ted.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Um, as a card-carrying member of the Canadian Liberal party, why would I be?Originally posted by: umbrella39
You offened by it? Hits too close to home? Too bad.
By all means, keep the sig! It's a helpful identifier for those abject tools that reside in P&N.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Anyone here want to stand up and admit voting for this guy? TK has needed to STFU for many years, he is not the mouthpeice of Liberal America and blaming us all for his words is not surprising, really...
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Originally posted by: yllus
Um, as a card-carrying member of the Canadian Liberal party, why would I be?Originally posted by: umbrella39
You offened by it? Hits too close to home? Too bad.
By all means, keep the sig! It's a helpful identifier for those abject tools that reside in P&N.
Plan on keeping it for quite some time. Thanks.
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