Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
When asked about the basic question of Iraq falling apart, JEDIYoda says, "Does anyone honestly care???
We need to bring our troops home. That is the bottom line!!"
Of course it would be nice to have our troops home after an operation that was supposed to cost 50 billion tops, but the same oil that tempted the neocons into Iraq still tempts everyone else in the world. And if Iraq goes into a full blown civil war, its very likely we will dealing with something that can spread far past the borders of Iraq. And if it shuts down the Persian Gulf, it can put every oil based economy on the planet into a instant depression. And fixing that kind of a mess can make the sunk costs we already have in Iraq look like a mere pittance.
But the thing that now totally enrages me, regards the more recent direction of this thread, and that thesis that somehow we don't want our troops back because Iraq has put them on a power trip. And turned them into set of sociopaths unwelcome in a civilized society like the USA. Not only is that a totally morally bankrupt argument which I will address later, those critics may get their wish and many of those troops leaving Iraq may be sent to Afghanistan.
But in the grander scheme of things, war does damage human beings when survival becomes the criteria, regardless if those troops end up on the side of the victor or the vanguished, we welcomed home our troops after WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and we damn well should with Iraq also. I have many friends who are Vietnam vets, they may have gone to war with lots of illusions, but they came home sadder but wiser human beings. And most of the war damages turn within, to self destructive behaviors like depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, and the like. I am a somewhat passionate pacifist, I can hate the men who send our young off to die on their behalf, but I can't find it in my heart to hate out troops or their troops, being used as pawns.
We need to bring our troops home. That is the bottom line!!"
Of course it would be nice to have our troops home after an operation that was supposed to cost 50 billion tops, but the same oil that tempted the neocons into Iraq still tempts everyone else in the world. And if Iraq goes into a full blown civil war, its very likely we will dealing with something that can spread far past the borders of Iraq. And if it shuts down the Persian Gulf, it can put every oil based economy on the planet into a instant depression. And fixing that kind of a mess can make the sunk costs we already have in Iraq look like a mere pittance.
But the thing that now totally enrages me, regards the more recent direction of this thread, and that thesis that somehow we don't want our troops back because Iraq has put them on a power trip. And turned them into set of sociopaths unwelcome in a civilized society like the USA. Not only is that a totally morally bankrupt argument which I will address later, those critics may get their wish and many of those troops leaving Iraq may be sent to Afghanistan.
But in the grander scheme of things, war does damage human beings when survival becomes the criteria, regardless if those troops end up on the side of the victor or the vanguished, we welcomed home our troops after WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and we damn well should with Iraq also. I have many friends who are Vietnam vets, they may have gone to war with lots of illusions, but they came home sadder but wiser human beings. And most of the war damages turn within, to self destructive behaviors like depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, and the like. I am a somewhat passionate pacifist, I can hate the men who send our young off to die on their behalf, but I can't find it in my heart to hate out troops or their troops, being used as pawns.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
The troops were doing the assignments given to them.
There may have been a few bad apples - there are also a few bad apples in every phase of society.
Blame our politicians for the types of orders given - and many were conflicting.
First of all it was an Iraq proposal that the US Military withdraw from the Cities by the deadline, and President Bush was the one that agreed to the deal. It does not really matter because the troops are still just outside some of these locations and at any time the Iraqi's can still ask for help. Think of this as a trial run for the Iraqi Military. Sounds good to me.
SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
- 0
- 0
Though I dont agree with amdhunter's horseshit, we need to remember that people have freedom of choice. One should not hide behind 'orders' when deciding right from wrong. Whither one thinks it was right or wrong I'm not here to say.
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
Are you out of your mind?! There is no "hiding behind orders" or "freedom of choice" in the military. You want to know what that is called - MUTINY.
amdhunter - that comment is one of the worst I have ever seen in my life and I sincerely hope that you don't mean a single word of it.
SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
- 0
- 0
Mutiny doesn't mean anything to me. Its more words. If an order is hanius enough, good people will refuse it. Last time I checked, mutiny was defined by the people, and their power to vote for lawmakers and those lawmakers making just laws. So dont give me that horseshit.
Im not saying they should have or not, so take some personal responsibility. The soldiers are not numbers, they are people with their own morals too.
GeezerMan
Platinum Member
- Jan 28, 2005
- 2,146
- 26
- 91
Is this true? We still will have 130,000 troops there? What's the time line for those troops to come home?
Link
"Despite Tuesday's formal pullback, some U.S. troops will remain in the cities to train and advise Iraqi forces. U.S. troops will return to the cities only if asked. The U.S. military will continue combat operations in rural areas and near the border, but only with the Iraqi government's permission.
The U.S. has not said how many troops will be in the cities in advisory roles, but the vast majority of the more than 130,000 U.S. forces remaining in the country will be in large bases scattered outside cities. "
datalink7
Lifer
- Jan 23, 2001
- 16,765
- 6
- 81
Same here.
In fact, I would have felt totally comfortable walking through most of the neighborhoods I patrolled unarmed after my 15 month deployment. In the beginning? No. But by the end we had brought a lot of stability to the area. When we left they threw us a big banquet and many were crying, begging us to stay.
amdhunter has no clue as to what he is saying.
And yet Im slated to go back over towards the middle of next year. Sigh. When we're supposed to be all the way out the end of 2011.
You are so ignorant, its really sad. And I only see one "douchebag" here.
You are so ignorant, its really sad. And I only see one "douchebag" here.
That is how you feel about a group of people who risk their lives so you can continue to live in a free and democratic country? How about that they did not make the decision to go ruin Iraq and that they were simply following the orders of their jobs? These people serve their country for our safety and preservation of our lives as we know them. This shows your lack of maturity and any regard for our country. You must be one of these young dimwits who think you are entitled to safety, freedom, liberty and everything else we are afforded because we have people willing to lay their lives on the line so snotty nosed little turds like you can go on living your pathetic lives. :|
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
There was never once an order given to murder civilians or do anything that warranted complete disregard for an order.
You can disagree with the principle behind the war (whatever you believe the principle was/is), but do not fault the brave men and women who carry that out.
I don't even know what that means
...-Kevin
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