-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Iraq is a TICKING TIMEBOMB what are we waiting FOR?????
- Thread starter FettsBabe
- Start date
StattlichPassat
Banned
I'm right behind you- I've been wondering the same thing! :disgust:
michaelh20
Senior member
Iraq is not the only country that has/will have nuclear and biological weapons. We can't invade them all get favorable governments in their place.
Is it worth killing 10's of thousands of civillians (my guess only mind you, but certainly we would kill many more civillians in Iraq than Afghanistan) for what we *think* they *might* do? Also ponder the reaction of the rest of the Arab/Muslim world to these kinds of casulties. All the talking heads in the world can not make this reality go away.
I also think it's tremendously wrong to say that we don't need real hard evidence before we take as drastic a measure as invading and overthrowing a government. The more Bush and company speak, the more obvious it has become that they don't really have hard evidence linking Iraq & terrorists.
This is all IMHO
Is it worth killing 10's of thousands of civillians (my guess only mind you, but certainly we would kill many more civillians in Iraq than Afghanistan) for what we *think* they *might* do? Also ponder the reaction of the rest of the Arab/Muslim world to these kinds of casulties. All the talking heads in the world can not make this reality go away.
I also think it's tremendously wrong to say that we don't need real hard evidence before we take as drastic a measure as invading and overthrowing a government. The more Bush and company speak, the more obvious it has become that they don't really have hard evidence linking Iraq & terrorists.
This is all IMHO
Iraq is a ticking timebomb blah blah blah blah blah...
If Bush is right, and Saddam along with his weapons of mass destruction are posing a threat to his neighbors and overall stability in the region, then why do all the countries in the region (minus the US satellite nation, AKA Israel) oppose military action against Iraq?
Or maybe Bush knows that the strength of both his Presidency and his party would falter during peacetime.
If Bush is right, and Saddam along with his weapons of mass destruction are posing a threat to his neighbors and overall stability in the region, then why do all the countries in the region (minus the US satellite nation, AKA Israel) oppose military action against Iraq?
Or maybe Bush knows that the strength of both his Presidency and his party would falter during peacetime.
michaelh20
Senior member
>If Bush is right, and Saddam along with his weapons of mass destruction are posing a threat to his >neighbors and overall stability in the region, then why do all the countries in the region (minus the US >satellite nation, AKA Israel) oppose military action against Iraq?
This is what I see also. I'm not saying Iraq isn't dangerous or potentially so, just that what "regime change" is quite a euphamism for the carnage that is sure to come from it *plus* we will be doing it even before we can rightly say we've been wronged by Iraq.
I can't image Iraq attacking us directly -- that would be insane, I could imagine them helping others do it.
This is what I see also. I'm not saying Iraq isn't dangerous or potentially so, just that what "regime change" is quite a euphamism for the carnage that is sure to come from it *plus* we will be doing it even before we can rightly say we've been wronged by Iraq.
I can't image Iraq attacking us directly -- that would be insane, I could imagine them helping others do it.
thawolfman
Lifer
pics? or links? Anything...seriously 😕
StattlichPassat
Banned
😕
StageLeft
No Lifer
Exactly and that's why I'm not really for this given what I know now (obviously not the entire picture). If it was one thing? Sure, fuel up the jets and lets get some popcorn and watch the smart bombs fall but it sets an impossible precident - one which the US cannot possibly continue in the future as Iraq is merely one of many sh*ty nations that have or will have weapons of mass destruction.
Check out the last few paragraphs.
Thu, September 5, 2002
Analysts: Iraqi drones are for biowarfare
THE WASHINGTON POST
In the waning hours of Operation Desert Fox in 1998, a British missile sheared off the top of a military hangar in southern Iraq and exposed a closely guarded secret. Plainly visible in the rubble was a new breed of Iraqi drone aircraft - one that defense analysts now believe was specially modified to spread deadly chemicals and germs.
Up to 12 of the unmanned airplanes were spotted inside the hangar, each fitted with spray nozzles and wing-mounted tanks that could carry up to 80 gallons of liquid anthrax. If flown at low altitudes under the right conditions, a single drone could unleash a toxic cloud engulfing several city blocks, a top British defense official concluded. He dubbed them "drones of death."
Today, Iraq's drones loom even larger as the Bush administration weighs a possible new strike against Saddam Hussein. The United States and Britain have said that Saddam is working to obtain chemical, biological and possibly nuclear weapons. A key unanswered question is whether Iraq has the means to deliver such weapons.
According to U.S. and allied intelligence officials and U.N. documents, Iraq has worked with apparently mixed success to diversify a patchwork collection of delivery vehicles that now includes not only Scud missiles, which it launched during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, but also a variety of novel machines for spraying pathogens and poisons from aircraft. Iraq deployed but never used chemical and biological weapons in the 1991 war.
The military significance of the threat posed by such an arsenal remains less clear. Drones are easy to shoot down, and it is far from certain that an aircraft-mounted chemical or biological attack would work - especially against troops, experts familiar with the weapons systems note. Iraq's missile industry, which struggled to tame the unreliable Scud before the 1991 war, is hobbled by U.N. trade sanctions, which are now in their 12th year.
But at minimum, the analysts agree, Iraq's expanded capabilities appear to offer new ways to terrorize civilian populations, including the cities of Israel, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, among others which could bear the brunt of Iraqi retaliation.
"These aircraft are intended to fly below radar so the Israelis can't detect them - the Iraqis themselves have said so," said a British biowarfare expert who investigated Iraq's experiments with aircraft-mounted biological weapons. "From that altitude, you can do a lot of damage over a very large area."
The delivery systems believed to be available for such an attack include at least some of the drones targeted in the British raid four years ago. The L-29 aircraft, as the drones are known, are one of at least three types of pilotless planes Iraq has tested for use in biological and chemical attacks, according to U.S. intelligence officials and U.N. documents.
In addition, Iraq is known to have converted crop-dusting gear into a germ-spraying device mounted on helicopters, U.N. files show. It also has developed biowarfare "drop tanks" that can be mounted on Iraq's fastest fighter aircraft.
These little-noticed innovations - many of them discovered by U.N. weapons inspectors in Iraq - supplement an established Iraqi ballistic-missile program that Pentagon officials say is slowly being rebuilt after being nearly destroyed in previous U.S.-led attacks.
The CIA and the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency say they believe that Iraq's missile arsenal now includes two types of short-range missiles and a small number of medium-range Scuds that Iraq's military managed to hide from U.N. inspectors after the Gulf War. In addition, they say, Iraq probably retains dozens of missile warheads and possibly many more rockets and artillery shells that were filled with biological or chemical weapons years ago.
Big gaps exist in the West's knowledge of each of these programs.
The unknowns are critically important, because they bear directly on the central question in the Iraq debate: whether Iraq's weapons of mass destruction pose a significant threat to the United States and its allies.
The precise nature of Iraq's arsenal of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons is also unclear. The CIA maintains that Iraq has residual stocks of biological and chemical weapons it manufactured before the 1991 war. U.S. intelligence officials also say they believe that Iraq is secretly trying to acquire new weapons, referring to accounts by Iraqi defectors and satellite photos showing old weapons factories being rebuilt. Iraq's progress in acquiring nuclear weapons is uncertain. Former U.N. inspectors say that Iraq was only months away from making a crude nuclear device when Operation Desert Storm began.
Before inspections abruptly ended in 1998, U.N. officials crisscrossed Iraq searching for a rumored new drone that could carry biological and chemical munitions. Not a shred of evidence turned up until Dec. 17 of that year, when British Tornado jets swooped over Iraq's Talil air base southeast of Baghdad and reaped an intelligence bonanza.
Photos of the ruined base showed rows of the new drones, which Iraq had hidden inside a hangar at the remote base. The aircraft were identified as Czech-made L-29s, a light trainer jet Iraq had bought years ago and converted to unmanned flight. The tanks for spraying biological and chemical agents appeared to be an Iraqi adaptation.
Thu, September 5, 2002
Analysts: Iraqi drones are for biowarfare
THE WASHINGTON POST
In the waning hours of Operation Desert Fox in 1998, a British missile sheared off the top of a military hangar in southern Iraq and exposed a closely guarded secret. Plainly visible in the rubble was a new breed of Iraqi drone aircraft - one that defense analysts now believe was specially modified to spread deadly chemicals and germs.
Up to 12 of the unmanned airplanes were spotted inside the hangar, each fitted with spray nozzles and wing-mounted tanks that could carry up to 80 gallons of liquid anthrax. If flown at low altitudes under the right conditions, a single drone could unleash a toxic cloud engulfing several city blocks, a top British defense official concluded. He dubbed them "drones of death."
Today, Iraq's drones loom even larger as the Bush administration weighs a possible new strike against Saddam Hussein. The United States and Britain have said that Saddam is working to obtain chemical, biological and possibly nuclear weapons. A key unanswered question is whether Iraq has the means to deliver such weapons.
According to U.S. and allied intelligence officials and U.N. documents, Iraq has worked with apparently mixed success to diversify a patchwork collection of delivery vehicles that now includes not only Scud missiles, which it launched during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, but also a variety of novel machines for spraying pathogens and poisons from aircraft. Iraq deployed but never used chemical and biological weapons in the 1991 war.
The military significance of the threat posed by such an arsenal remains less clear. Drones are easy to shoot down, and it is far from certain that an aircraft-mounted chemical or biological attack would work - especially against troops, experts familiar with the weapons systems note. Iraq's missile industry, which struggled to tame the unreliable Scud before the 1991 war, is hobbled by U.N. trade sanctions, which are now in their 12th year.
But at minimum, the analysts agree, Iraq's expanded capabilities appear to offer new ways to terrorize civilian populations, including the cities of Israel, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, among others which could bear the brunt of Iraqi retaliation.
"These aircraft are intended to fly below radar so the Israelis can't detect them - the Iraqis themselves have said so," said a British biowarfare expert who investigated Iraq's experiments with aircraft-mounted biological weapons. "From that altitude, you can do a lot of damage over a very large area."
The delivery systems believed to be available for such an attack include at least some of the drones targeted in the British raid four years ago. The L-29 aircraft, as the drones are known, are one of at least three types of pilotless planes Iraq has tested for use in biological and chemical attacks, according to U.S. intelligence officials and U.N. documents.
In addition, Iraq is known to have converted crop-dusting gear into a germ-spraying device mounted on helicopters, U.N. files show. It also has developed biowarfare "drop tanks" that can be mounted on Iraq's fastest fighter aircraft.
These little-noticed innovations - many of them discovered by U.N. weapons inspectors in Iraq - supplement an established Iraqi ballistic-missile program that Pentagon officials say is slowly being rebuilt after being nearly destroyed in previous U.S.-led attacks.
The CIA and the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency say they believe that Iraq's missile arsenal now includes two types of short-range missiles and a small number of medium-range Scuds that Iraq's military managed to hide from U.N. inspectors after the Gulf War. In addition, they say, Iraq probably retains dozens of missile warheads and possibly many more rockets and artillery shells that were filled with biological or chemical weapons years ago.
Big gaps exist in the West's knowledge of each of these programs.
The unknowns are critically important, because they bear directly on the central question in the Iraq debate: whether Iraq's weapons of mass destruction pose a significant threat to the United States and its allies.
The precise nature of Iraq's arsenal of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons is also unclear. The CIA maintains that Iraq has residual stocks of biological and chemical weapons it manufactured before the 1991 war. U.S. intelligence officials also say they believe that Iraq is secretly trying to acquire new weapons, referring to accounts by Iraqi defectors and satellite photos showing old weapons factories being rebuilt. Iraq's progress in acquiring nuclear weapons is uncertain. Former U.N. inspectors say that Iraq was only months away from making a crude nuclear device when Operation Desert Storm began.
Before inspections abruptly ended in 1998, U.N. officials crisscrossed Iraq searching for a rumored new drone that could carry biological and chemical munitions. Not a shred of evidence turned up until Dec. 17 of that year, when British Tornado jets swooped over Iraq's Talil air base southeast of Baghdad and reaped an intelligence bonanza.
Photos of the ruined base showed rows of the new drones, which Iraq had hidden inside a hangar at the remote base. The aircraft were identified as Czech-made L-29s, a light trainer jet Iraq had bought years ago and converted to unmanned flight. The tanks for spraying biological and chemical agents appeared to be an Iraqi adaptation.
shiner
Lifer
Why haven't we attacked Iraq yet? Because we are waiting for the next bad thing to happen so that we can then tell all the peacenik self righteous hippy tree loving freaks who care more about making pants out of hemp than they do making the world a safer place to shut up, stay out of the way, and go fvck themselves while we deal with the problem as it should be dealt with. Sorry folks but sometimes you just have to kill people and blow sh1t up in order to make the world a better place.
ThePresence
Elite Member
Tell us how you really feel.
I agree with u, btw.
XMan
Lifer
Article from AP and Fox News:
"Part of the new intelligence on Iraq gathered by the Bush administration to present to Congress includes additional information on how dangerously close Saddam Hussein has come to developing a nuclear weapon, Fox News has learned.
Other sources told Fox News that, in addition, there is new intelligence that Saddam has developed new means to deliver chemical and biological weapons and finally that there is intelligence information indicating that Saddam's regime has been in contact with Al Qaeda
before and after the 9/11 terror attacks."
Full Text
"Part of the new intelligence on Iraq gathered by the Bush administration to present to Congress includes additional information on how dangerously close Saddam Hussein has come to developing a nuclear weapon, Fox News has learned.
Other sources told Fox News that, in addition, there is new intelligence that Saddam has developed new means to deliver chemical and biological weapons and finally that there is intelligence information indicating that Saddam's regime has been in contact with Al Qaeda
before and after the 9/11 terror attacks."
Full Text
shiner
Lifer
A quote by General George S. Patton. It applies to this situation just as well as it did to WWII
"We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home." - General George S. Patton in his address to the Third Army
Full Text of the speech
"We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home." - General George S. Patton in his address to the Third Army
Full Text of the speech
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Shinerburke,
How much death have you seen? I mean close up and personal. How many have you killed, or seen killed? I don't mean pushing a button. That is a video game.
Even the friggin generals in GW1's admininistration arent for this. Eagleburger, who you may consider one of those hippy liberal types. I think he makes good sense and many here ought to listen.
How much death have you seen? I mean close up and personal. How many have you killed, or seen killed? I don't mean pushing a button. That is a video game.
Even the friggin generals in GW1's admininistration arent for this. Eagleburger, who you may consider one of those hippy liberal types. I think he makes good sense and many here ought to listen.
Random Variable
Lifer
We're waiting for more excuses to not remove Saddam's regime from power.
shiner
Lifer
Well I was at the Oklahoma City Bombing within a couple oh hours of it happening. Saw many dead then and had to walk over dead bodies on my way to help retrieve the colors from the USMC office there. Personally I have never killed anyone but would have no problems doing so. There have been occasions when I have had to pull my sidearm one someone but as of yet I haven't had to actually fire.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
