Iraq is a TICKING TIMEBOMB what are we waiting FOR?????

[Bollocks]

Originally posted by: dszd0g
I would like to add that I find it sad, that most Europeans I talk to are well aware of most of these things that I am writing about. However, I have only come across a few Americans who are. What is common knowledge in Europe is kept from the average American.

I am not sure how many of you saw the letter to Americans sent by a Canadian saying how sick we all are that we can sit around watching TV when our government does all these terrible things. I really think it's because the rest of the world knows we do all these terrible things, but the average American has this idealistic vision of our country that is portrayed by our media that shows us as the saviour of the world.

I bet when the average person on these forums reads what I am writing here, they won't believe it. The average American has been brainwashed into not believing it, they can't view their own country as the horror it really is.

I plan on emigrating next year.

I have 2 engineering degrees and have enough points for any country.

I am interested in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

I am now choosing between NZ and Canada...

USA appealed - excellent pay, low cost of living, open spaces... but I decided that I didn't like the USA's brand of government and capitalism.

 

[aswedc]

I'll add my vote to the can't-believe-people-fall-for-this-crap catagory. Just because Bush told you 50 times Iraq is oh so dangerous they are ready to use a nuke on us now? There is NO evidence Iraq is any more dangerous than dozens of other similar rogue countries. Plus, a invasion would probably require some urban combat to avoid Iraqi civilian casualties and would kill dozens of US soldiers.

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: Bollocks

I plan on emigrating next year.

I have 2 engineering degrees and have enough points for any country.

I am interested in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

I am now choosing between NZ and Canada...

USA appealed - excellent pay, low cost of living, open spaces... but I decided that I didn't like the USA's brand of government and capitalism.

I would consider leaving if most of my family wasn't local to me. I don't like the idea of running away from problems though, I don't think I could bring myself to do it. I will continue to educate (not really the right word) as many people as I can and hope more Americans start questioning are government.

It scares me how many Americans are willing to give up their rights for a false peace of mind against terrorism.

Sorry for the cliche', but "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

We have a government that is labeling citizens "enemy combatants" and taking away their rights and holding them with out a trial. We have secret military courts who are actually scared enough to reveal their existance because they are scared by what John Ashcroft is doing. Isn't that bad when our own secret government organizations are scared by our government? We are turning into 1984 with government programs like TIPS and Rewards for Justice. We can't buy stamps without the American flag without being questioned by police and postal inspectors.

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: aswedc
I'll add my vote to the can't-believe-people-fall-for-this-crap catagory. Just because Bush told you 50 times Iraq is oh so dangerous they are ready to use a nuke on us now? There is NO evidence Iraq is any more dangerous than dozens of other similar rogue countries. Plus, a invasion would probably require some urban combat to avoid Iraqi civilian casualties and would kill dozens of US soldiers.

Even Bush has said that if we go into Iraq we will be looking at casualties like we did in Vietnam. Military leaders say that it would require the administration to lie to the population the same way too. The only reason we stayed in Vietnam as long as we did is it took us a while to realize we were being lied to. We forget so quickly.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Why haven't we attacked Iraq yet? Because we are waiting for the next bad thing to happen so that we can then tell all the peacenik self righteous hippy tree loving freaks who care more about making pants out of hemp than they do making the world a safer place to shut up, stay out of the way, and go fvck themselves while we deal with the problem as it should be dealt with. Sorry folks but sometimes you just have to kill people and blow sh1t up in order to make the world a better place.

Were you stroking your c0ck when you wrote that? Moron.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

I'd like to think of it this way, we fight b/c he has weapons of mass destruction and may use them. well, what do you think he's going to use on us if we get into a war??? the dang nukes he's building!

 

[Moonbeam]

Conservative Republicanism, based so much on fear, is a pretty weak force at the ballot box without enemies, so as long as we have them we will need enemies, and we will invent them if we have to. A fearful mind is a mind that cannot think.

We just watched the Yogoslavs self destruct because a few ploiticians there knew the fear route to power. They whipped themselves into a nationalistic fever, got into office and are not before the Hague. Thank God we're not like that. Right?

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: res1bhmg
Iraq is a ticking timebomb blah blah blah blah blah...

If Bush is right, and Saddam along with his weapons of mass destruction are posing a threat to his neighbors and overall stability in the region, then why do all the countries in the region (minus the US satellite nation, AKA Israel) oppose military action against Iraq?

Or maybe Bush knows that the strength of both his Presidency and his party would falter during peacetime.

you gotta be kidding me...

the arab countries, already a piece of shiit, would have tens of thousands of iraqi citizens flooding to their respective countries. as for isreal, well iraq would at the very least launch scud missiles their way as they did during desert storm.

the question is simple. is their any doubt that saddam would use weapons of mass destruction if he obtained them and is he close to obtaining them? well if you look at his record, invading kuwait, using biological weapons on his own people, launching scud missles into isreal, firing at US planes, etc..... the answer is simple - yes he would use these weapons if he got them. and at the very least he is trying his @ss off to obtain these weapons.

we should all thank clinton for this mess for it was he that was ball-less and let the weapon inspectors be pushed around and grabbed his ankles at every opportunity. i remember when suddam massed his tanks near the kuwaity border, several years into clintons first term i believe, and to avoid another war clinton reduced sanctions on iraq.... quite pathetic. gawd damn clinton was pathetic

 

[arod]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Why haven't we attacked Iraq yet? Because we are waiting for the next bad thing to happen so that we can then tell all the peacenik self righteous hippy tree loving freaks who care more about making pants out of hemp than they do making the world a safer place to shut up, stay out of the way, and go fvck themselves while we deal with the problem as it should be dealt with. Sorry folks but sometimes you just have to kill people and blow sh1t up in order to make the world a better place.

Were you stroking your c0ck when you wrote that? Moron.

I totally agree with shinerburke, what kind of proof do you want the rest on NYC nuked? Going into Iraq now would be a "preventative measure", theres no doubt in anybodys mind that if saddam ever got something he wouldnt hesitate to use it. And most likely he does but he cant get it over here right now.... Its only a matter of time before somebody gets some kind of device whether it be a nuclear device or some biological stuff. Were going to turn into the next isreal where your not even safe walking down the street.

 

[Moonbeam]

Gee arod, maybe you didn't notice your number could be up an any minute from an infinity of causes. Why not go for broke, nuke the entire world. You never know who might be plotting to bring in that suite case nuke. hey better nuke everybody but you. The anthrax source from the attack we did experience came form our own weapons labs. Who are you that others should die because you are afraid.

 

[shiner]

Were you stroking your c0ck when you wrote that? Moron.

No, your Mom was taking care of that for me. Asshat.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I have a hunch Pakistan is developing weapons of mass distruction. It's a ticking timebomb. What are we waiting for?

I have a hunch North Korea is ....

I have a hunch China is ....

Pakistan has detonated very small nuclear warheads and have yet to develop the missile that will launch them...that being said, they probably have 5 times as many terrorists operating in their country than Iraq does. The only difference is, their puppet ruler, is not a psycho nutjob that sells or gives away its weapons of mass destruction unlike the French, China or Russia to dangerous countries. I would not really be surprised if Osama was in some supporters home now in Pakistan sipping Latte and reading the Wall Street Journal. Pakistan is divided into 10% who like the US, 40% who tolerate us, and the other half either hate us and do nothing about it or join various cults to perpetrate the widespread misteachings of Allah and teach how to kill unarmed people the best way.

North Korea....well like Iraq, they would rather have nuclear capability and watch half its population starve in the process, but then again we maintain a presence just south of there to keep them on their toes.

China...we have an understanding, they don't mess with us and we won't mess with them.....incidents involving disappearing hard drives and "observation" planes excluded. Out of the list that you provided though, China is the only country that can not be considered a third world country and I'd trust them alot more than I would trust any of the others...

 

[NFS4]

Why do I have the image of FettsBabe spinning and jumping around in a circle with a tight, revealing shirt on like Jennifer Love Hewitt in "I Know What You Did Last Summer?"

"What are you waiting for, huh??!! What are you waiting forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!"

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Were you stroking your c0ck when you wrote that? Moron.

No, your Mom was taking care of that for me. Asshat.

That makes you a MotherFvcker, Scatmonkey.

 

[shiner]

That makes you a MotherFvcker, Scatmonkey.

I'd rather be that than a ropesmoker like you.

Now, if you don't have anything intelligent to add to this thread please leave. I'm sure there is a re-run of Three's Company on somewhere that you can watch. Just remember, Susan Sommers doesn't really love you no matter hard hard you wish for it.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

That makes you a MotherFvcker, Scatmonkey.

I'd rather be that than a ropesmoker like you.

Now, if you don't have anything intelligent to add to this thread please leave. I'm sure there is a re-run of Three's Company on somewhere that you can watch. Just remember, Susan Sommers doesn't really love you no matter hard hard you wish for it.

FYI Everybody The following is an intellegent addition to this thread Originally posted by: shinerburke

No, your Mom was taking care of that for me. Asshat.

Thanks for turning up, ShinerBurp.

 

[dawks]

Again, in the most simple form,
"OMG, I think that guy Jimbo there is going to buy a knife and kill frank"
"how do you know?"
"Just a hunch"
"Ok then, we should kill him now, before he kills the other guy"
-------------
I can then give a more sharp example..
"Hey, that race of people there, they arent like us, they arent 'perfect'. I think we should wipe them out"
"Why?"
"Because I dont like them" (lots of propaganda follows..)
(Start killing millions of jews)

We dont really have any reason for doing it.. we'll just do it because it feels right.


For the most part, the americans see Bush in his fancy offices talking about how big and scarey Saddam is.. They dont really get much more exposure then that. Im sure the Europeans are getting a much broader story then that. Which is why support is much lower elsewhere.

Hopefully some Americans will one day learn they cant just go around beating everyone up. There are more then just Americans on this planet.

 

[dexvx]

I think you guys are missing the point on why everyone is delaying action against Iraq. You (Shinerburke) are also making countries such as France and Cananda for making valid points. What happens AFTER you defeat him? Whos going to keep tens of thousands of troops in Iraq for peacekeeping? What happens to the oil? What happens to the Kurds (who want an independant nation that will make ANOTHER power vacuum in the middle east similar to the Palestinians vs Isreal)? What happens to Iraq as a NATION? Who is willing to spend tens of BILLIONS of $$ to help Iraq recover (look what happened to Afganistan right after the US pulled out in the late 1980s)?

Those after effects are the issues that need to be ironed out. They are more important for long term stability, not the short term, we kick yo @$$ and leave you to be. I think the 2 key issues are money (its going to cost a lot of $$ in the long run), peacekeeping troops, and the Kurds (I think the biggest issue actually).

Going in stupidly without thinking about the long term consequence is just stupid. Look what happened to Afghanistan in the late 1980s. The US helped them, pulled out, and all hell broke loose.

 

[dexvx]

I might have to add that NO ONE in the US government knows the aftermath or what they're going to do after this campaign.

Paraphrasing one of the interviews:

France: Whats going to happen to the Iraqi people?
Bush Aide: I dunno.
France: Whos going to keep the peacekeepers?
Bush Aide: I suppose the US will do the bulk of the peacekeeping.
France: How many peacekeepers will there be?
Bush Aide: No idea.
France: Whos going to pick up the cost of the peacekeepers?
Bush Aide: No idea.
France: How long will they be there?
Bush Aide: No idea.
France: What about the Kurds? They want an independant nation and Turkey is strongly opposed?
Bush Aide: We'll see about that after Saddam is dead.
France: What if you find no significant weapons of mass destruction?
Bush Aide: There will be.
France: Who will be in control of the oil reserves?
Bush Aides: We'll iron that out later.

 

[shiner]

No, your Mom was taking care of that for me. Asshat.

You might want to point out that my post was in response to your post calling me a moron.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: justint

Originally posted by: shinerburke
I've never met anyone in the military who joined thinking they may never see action. We do have a voluntary military here and the people that join know there is always a chance they will be called to go to war. Could we take out Saddam and his staff? Only if we were to get lucky and catch him at a site and bomb the hell out of it. Getting close enough to him for a traditional assassination attempt is nearly impossible. He has purged all those around him that he has even .000000001% of a doubt about their loyalty. The man killed one of his own sons just because he thought he wanted to take over. It takes a truly ruthless and evil bastard to do something like that. It would be nice if we could just put a bullet through his head but that is highly unlikely to happen.

Shinerburke,

Saddam Hussein killed his son?? That is news to me. He has two sons, one of whom is a certified sociopath, but he has never killed any of his children to my knowledge. Could you elaborate on that statement? Sources??

I must warn you, when Shinerburke makes a fool of himself on these forums, he'll claim it was someone else logging onto his PC, not himself. He's done this before.

 

[shiner]

I must warn you, when Shinerburke makes a fool of himself on these forums, he'll claim it was someone else logging onto his PC, not himself. He's done this before.

I love how you keep bringing something up that happened one time many, MANY months ago just so you can try and discredit me. I apologized for the incident you are referring to and explained what happened. Those that know me on these forums will tell you that the post you are bringing up was WAY out of character for me. You can either accept my explanation and apology and move on or you can continue to bring it up time and again whenever you disagree with me. How about you try to contribute something for once and not just sit on the sidelines and throw mud?

As for Hussein killing his son, I was mistaken it was his son in law. Still takes a pretty evil and twisted bastard to do something like that.

 

[lowtech1]

1. We know firsthand how devastating these weapons are.

No we don?t, because we only observed. The only people that really know are the Japanese.

2. We know how much nuclear weapons can destabilize regions. Why do you think the US and USSR have been working for years to help eliminate a lot of the stockpiles of nukes.

It is a common thing for governments/armies to dispense their old stockpiles because ammos degrade as time goes by. It could be that nuclear weapons radiation can stay in the soil/air for a long period of time that may affect everyone globally. And, it could be that the government uses as a political propaganda ploy when nuclear weapons can?t be dispose in the traditional way by dropping them randomly on their neighbours.

That is extremely unsettling when you have these crazy bastards on TV bragging about wanting to use the nukes.

You can say the same thing regard Hitler, Stalin, Kissinger, Hussein, Bush, etc? I have to a greed with you, but we are in no better position to dictate to the rest of the world when the American people made a stupid idiot into a President.

With someone like Hussein who has gassed his own populace

Again I will have to iterate my previous post. Why don?t we bomb the Chinese when they have done just as mush atrocities to their own people & neighbours? Like a scrounge we are, the Chinese give us cheap labours & make us monies therefore we will turn a blind eye, because money is still money and a little blood on it not going to make it go bad.

I don't know about you, but the last thing I want to do is live in fear of a gas, nuke, or biological attacks on my city or country.

A bit of sensational journalism is not going to stop me from wanting to travel, because I might as well hide in my home & bunker the exits. School shooting, drive by shooting, bne, gas stop hold up, kidnapping & rape is a common concurrent thing your life, but does it make you want to go Rambo on everyone that you don?t like?



I?m assuming that you are a little more diplomatic to your neighbors than your aggressive political stance. It might be better to talk & invite your rowdy neighbor over to your pristine yard for a beer, because you have a bigger gun & you don?t like him.

 

[shiner]

No we don?t, because we only observed. The only people that really know are the Japanese.

And thank God that President Truman had the sense to use the A-Bomb against Japan. If he hadn't a LOT more lives would have been lost on both sides.

It is a common thing for governments/armies to dispense their old stockpiles because ammos degrade as time goes by. It could be that nuclear weapons radiation can stay in the soil/air for a long period of time that may affect everyone globally. And, it could be that the government uses as a political propaganda ploy when nuclear weapons can?t be dispose in the traditional way by dropping them randomly on their neighbours.

We are destroying them and lowering our stockpiles for several reasons. The two most important being
1. The Cold War is over and the doctrine of M.A.D. is no longer needed therefore we need less missiles.
2. Maintaining all those nukes was expensive and we no longer need to due so thanks to reason #1.

You can say the same thing regard Hitler, Stalin, Kissinger, Hussein, Bush, etc? I have to a greed with you, but we are in no better position to dictate to the rest of the world when the American people made a stupid idiot into a President.

Again I will have to iterate my previous post. Why don?t we bomb the Chinese when they have done just as mush atrocities to their own people & neighbours? Like a scrounge we are, the Chinese give us cheap labours & make us monies therefore we will turn a blind eye, because money is still money and a little blood on it not going to make it go bad.

Normally I'm all for beating down people like that, but in the case of China I think engagement is the best policy. We can and are winning them over slowly but surely thanks to capitalism. Good old McDonald's, Levis, and Coke will bring about the downfall of the Communists there at a much cheaper human cost than a military campaign would. It's just too bad more countries can't be dealt with that way.

A bit of sensational journalism is not going to stop me from wanting to travel, because I might as well hide in my home & bunker the exits. School shooting, drive by shooting, bne, gas stop hold up, kidnapping & rape is a common concurrent thing your life, but does it make you want to go Rambo on everyone that you don?t like?

It does me. If we could rid the world of the scum who typically do those types of things the world would be a much nicer place. I do agree though that you cannot live your life in fear.

 

[VFAA]

Iraq is a TICKING TIMEBOMB what are we waiting FOR?????

Sanity.