Hmm, I wonder where they got those Kornet missiles from?
GPS jammers, night vision goggles, and now this
GPS jammers, night vision goggles, and now this
Iraq has used Russian made anti-tank missiles to knock out two M1-A1 tanks
- Thread starter friedpie
- Start date
Your subject line and that article is very misleading.
They didn't really "knock out" our tanks.
We were attacked from behind in a sandstorm and the tanks got hit in the back. The engines in those tanks got hit, but the crews were unharmed. It sounds like the tanks were otherwise ok, but the engines will need to be replaced.
They didn't really "knock out" our tanks.
We were attacked from behind in a sandstorm and the tanks got hit in the back. The engines in those tanks got hit, but the crews were unharmed. It sounds like the tanks were otherwise ok, but the engines will need to be replaced.
Probably free. Russia probably sees this as an opportunity to do some actual battlefield testing and slipped Iraq some missiles so they can examine the results.
From reading that article, those sound like some serious weapons. I would be worried even if I was in an M1-A1........
You want the link, then you find it.
I'm sick of people demanding links for *everything*. It has become a tactic of some people... Disagree with what someone says? Demand a link for everything they say... that'll slow them down.
DO A SEARCH!
The hit was most likely from the back as that is one of the soft spots on the M1-A1. This would really only take out the engine.
Damn, the entire setup weighs 63 pounds. Thats a big load to be carrying around, how old is this missile system anyway?
Ok friedpie, this is the last time that I do somebody else's homework by providing a link:
The tank was hit from behind in the engine.
And here's the text from the story:
Taking advantage of sandstorms that grounded Apache attack helicopters that would otherwise have provided air cover for the convoy, Iraqi forces believed to be a Republican Guard commando battalion repeatedly attacked with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns and small-arms fire. Some of the engagements were hit-and-run. Some involved troops dug in several hundred yards on either side of the road.
During a climactic encounter late Tuesday, the convoy was attacked by hundreds of soldiers. U.S. forces called in airstrikes, and counterattacked and killed most of the attackers. But when the smoke cleared, two Abrams tanks ? virtually impregnable, 70-ton behemoths ? had been shot in their soft spot, a rear grille covering the engine. Miraculously, the tanks? four-man crews escaped in both cases, a testament to the Abrams?s design, which puts a premium on protecting crew members.
As I quite correctly stated in my previous post, the story that you posted was misleading. The Russian missile did not do as the article claimed, which is cutting through the thick armor and killing the crew inside. The tank was not knocked out, the thick armor was not defeated, the tank is still fine, it just needs engine work.
The tank was hit from behind in the engine.
And here's the text from the story:
Taking advantage of sandstorms that grounded Apache attack helicopters that would otherwise have provided air cover for the convoy, Iraqi forces believed to be a Republican Guard commando battalion repeatedly attacked with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns and small-arms fire. Some of the engagements were hit-and-run. Some involved troops dug in several hundred yards on either side of the road.
During a climactic encounter late Tuesday, the convoy was attacked by hundreds of soldiers. U.S. forces called in airstrikes, and counterattacked and killed most of the attackers. But when the smoke cleared, two Abrams tanks ? virtually impregnable, 70-ton behemoths ? had been shot in their soft spot, a rear grille covering the engine. Miraculously, the tanks? four-man crews escaped in both cases, a testament to the Abrams?s design, which puts a premium on protecting crew members.
As I quite correctly stated in my previous post, the story that you posted was misleading. The Russian missile did not do as the article claimed, which is cutting through the thick armor and killing the crew inside. The tank was not knocked out, the thick armor was not defeated, the tank is still fine, it just needs engine work.
It's not like you were an eyewitness there, it's common courtesy to post a link if you're going to say something is fact. Most people aren't going to play "hunt for the article" to find whatever source you read.
It's just that you make these statements sounding as though you have inside info about what's going on over there. As if you were there. When you make these statements, you should say it like: reports say... OR according to...
Otherwise you sound like a BSer.
It's common courtesy to do a search before you ask a question. On almost every forum I got on, the #1 peeve from people is that people won't do their own homework. So everyone says "search... Search...SEARCH!" They even go as far as to make cute little animated .gifs that say Search
But there's only one of me, and hundreds of people that can possibly demand links. If I had to accomodate everyone's requests the time searching would seriously add up. It would really speed things up if people would just do their own little bit of research before asking me to do it for them.
All its good then. The armor of those Abrams is proven to really work well to protect the crew, even at its weakest spot. The T-72 will be a moving death trap for the Iraqis when come face to face with the Abrams.
If I'm posting on the internet all day on Anandtech forums, that should tip people off that I'm not currently on the battlefield. I'm probably watching TV and reading the news like everyone else.
I'm sure most people know how to do a search, all they have to do it look up what I said.
For instance, I originally saw the report on TV, but I did a search so I could find a link to show that guy so his lazy ass could click it and read it.
From now on, I'm just going to tell people to Search for the information they want.
Dude, that's not really how debates work... if you want to present an arguement or a position you have to back it up with factual data and sources. You can't just say it's true and then tell everyone to look for the evidence themselves... that's really lame. You DON'T have to provide a link to a source, but don't be surprised if people call you on it.
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,303
- 15
- 81
Either way you look at it, it's a big deal because there is a weapons system in the field that's designed to penetrate explosive reactive armor. Is this a surprise to anyone? Armor versus offensive means to penetrate armor has been a constant arms race throughout history, with a lot of smart people on all sides of the ideological spectrum working on it. The M1A1 can't remain invulnerable forever.
B.S
I have spent many hours in MIA1 tanks, the article is B.S.
I am not saying that they didn't take out a tank or two or that they couldn't.
The MI tanks have a few weakness in them, which I will not say what they are.
I have spent many hours in MIA1 tanks, the article is B.S.
I am not saying that they didn't take out a tank or two or that they couldn't.
The MI tanks have a few weakness in them, which I will not say what they are.
I read about the Kornet missile system on World Net Daily. An article there suggests that the Iraqi's obtained at least 1000 Kornet missiles. The russian website regarding Iraw states the following:
US experts at the coalition command headquarters studied the cases of destroyed and damaged M1A2 tanks and various APCs. The conclusion was that without a doubt the Iraqis do possess modern anti-tank weapons but so far use them on a ?very limited scale.?Only three tanks have been hit by guided weapons which destroyed these tanks with the first hit. The rest of the tanks were destroyed with more standard weapons. Some of the most common causes [of destroyed armor] include: anti-tank guns (about 40% of all hits), man-portable rocket-propelled grenade launchers (25% of hits), and landmines (25% of hits). Effectiveness of anti-tank artillery has been particularly high. ?Impacts by high-velocity projectiles do not always destroy the tank and its crew. However, in 90% of all cases the tank is disabled and the crew is forced to abandon the tank on the battlefield???says the report that was distributed to the commanders of the forward units for analysis.
Link to Russian Site (provides a daily analysis--accuracy is definately questionable) but here is the link
DEBKA has an article discussing the KORNET. The relevant portion states:
Their most effective weapon was one unanticipated by US tank troops: a Russian-made Kornet AT-14 ATGM laser wire-guided anti-tank missile capable of penetrating 1100 to 1200 millimeters of steel armor protected by explosive armor at a distance of 3.5 km. This formidable direct-fire weapon is fitted on the fast-moving Nissen trucks driven by the guerrillas. The Kornet?s drawbacks are that, to keep its sights locked on target, it must remain stationary after firing; moreover, its wire-guided missiles cannot be fired over trees, power lines or water, because the wire will snag and break disabling the guidance system. The Kornet will therefore lose effectiveness as US tanks approach the canals and power lines around Baghdad. However, in the open desert, the Kornet is helping Iraqi forces equalize the advantages of superior American weapons. It is credited with disabling a number of heavy American Abrahm-1 tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier of the US 3d Division fighting in the central region around Nasiriya.
The missile and instructors for its use, DEBKAfile intelligence sources report, were provided by an old friend of Saddam Hussein, President Aleksander Lukashenko of Belarus. It was sent to over through Iraq?s primary smuggling route across Syria. The CIA is investigating reports that Russian President Vladimir Putin may have given the nod to the delivery.
Link to Debka Article Discussing in part the Kornet missile system
Remember a while back, the syrians made a deal with russians to purchase numerous military hardware. Now put that in context with the warnings from Rumsfeld and Powell.
Link for Russian sale of military hardware to Syria
US experts at the coalition command headquarters studied the cases of destroyed and damaged M1A2 tanks and various APCs. The conclusion was that without a doubt the Iraqis do possess modern anti-tank weapons but so far use them on a ?very limited scale.?Only three tanks have been hit by guided weapons which destroyed these tanks with the first hit. The rest of the tanks were destroyed with more standard weapons. Some of the most common causes [of destroyed armor] include: anti-tank guns (about 40% of all hits), man-portable rocket-propelled grenade launchers (25% of hits), and landmines (25% of hits). Effectiveness of anti-tank artillery has been particularly high. ?Impacts by high-velocity projectiles do not always destroy the tank and its crew. However, in 90% of all cases the tank is disabled and the crew is forced to abandon the tank on the battlefield???says the report that was distributed to the commanders of the forward units for analysis.
Link to Russian Site (provides a daily analysis--accuracy is definately questionable) but here is the link
DEBKA has an article discussing the KORNET. The relevant portion states:
Their most effective weapon was one unanticipated by US tank troops: a Russian-made Kornet AT-14 ATGM laser wire-guided anti-tank missile capable of penetrating 1100 to 1200 millimeters of steel armor protected by explosive armor at a distance of 3.5 km. This formidable direct-fire weapon is fitted on the fast-moving Nissen trucks driven by the guerrillas. The Kornet?s drawbacks are that, to keep its sights locked on target, it must remain stationary after firing; moreover, its wire-guided missiles cannot be fired over trees, power lines or water, because the wire will snag and break disabling the guidance system. The Kornet will therefore lose effectiveness as US tanks approach the canals and power lines around Baghdad. However, in the open desert, the Kornet is helping Iraqi forces equalize the advantages of superior American weapons. It is credited with disabling a number of heavy American Abrahm-1 tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier of the US 3d Division fighting in the central region around Nasiriya.
The missile and instructors for its use, DEBKAfile intelligence sources report, were provided by an old friend of Saddam Hussein, President Aleksander Lukashenko of Belarus. It was sent to over through Iraq?s primary smuggling route across Syria. The CIA is investigating reports that Russian President Vladimir Putin may have given the nod to the delivery.
Link to Debka Article Discussing in part the Kornet missile system
Remember a while back, the syrians made a deal with russians to purchase numerous military hardware. Now put that in context with the warnings from Rumsfeld and Powell.
Link for Russian sale of military hardware to Syria
If I recall right Bagdad Bob made a statement early on that they had a secret weapon to use against us, I took that to mean Chem or Bio but he may have been referring to this.
No matter, they are going down big time, they will all die if they continue to fight.
The thre thread should have read "Disabled"
Bleep
No matter, they are going down big time, they will all die if they continue to fight.
The thre thread should have read "Disabled"
Bleep
This happened last week. We also lost a couple bradleys to RPG rounds. As well as we lost a M1A1 in a gulch when it collapsed a bridge. Two trucks got stuck in ditches as well.
They did take out two tanks from behind. It was in urban fighting, a toyota pickup with these said missles attached to them, got the two M1A1's from behind, and took the tanks out of service, they are done for, for this war atleast. All crewmen were safe, although one had to struggle for a few minutes to crawl his way out of the drivers position. I posted a USAToday link in some other thread.
They did take out two tanks from behind. It was in urban fighting, a toyota pickup with these said missles attached to them, got the two M1A1's from behind, and took the tanks out of service, they are done for, for this war atleast. All crewmen were safe, although one had to struggle for a few minutes to crawl his way out of the drivers position. I posted a USAToday link in some other thread.
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