Iraq 'first battle of a wider US war'

[Bigdude]

America, Let's Roll

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030520-wider-war01.htm

 

[konichiwa]

"America, Let's Roll" he says as if he has anything to do with it. Did anyone really doubt that Iraq was the first battle of a wider...scratch 'wider'...'neverending' war? As long as Bush&co. can persuade the American public to believe that their little kiddies going to school are in grave danger of a terrorist attack (ready.gov), they can continue this war forever, furthering their motives until the world comes to an end.

Or at least until 2008.

 

[Bigdude]

Or at least until 2008.

At least someone here knows Bush will win in 2004!

 

[Dari]

this is an ongoing policy. the longer they sit back and watch as we destroy our enemies, the easier the pickings will be. to be fair, global order was long overdue. it's time that bush junior is using what clinton setup, which were preceded by the hard works of bush senior and reagan.

 

[BOBDN]

So let me get this straight.

You people have no problem with the USA becoming the next great power to attempt to rule over the entire planet.

Is that an accurate statement?

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Bigdude

Or at least until 2008.

At least someone here knows Bush will win in 2004!

That's all you took away from my post? Tell mom your internet time is up, please.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: BOBDN
So let me get this straight.

You people have no problem with the USA becoming the next great power to attempt to rule over the entire planet.

Is that an accurate statement?

you're exaggerating a little, but, yeah, I have no problems with us being the preemminent power. It's better than being the weakest power or being equal to other nations. THe two latter options invite defeat easily.

 

[Commish]

Originally posted by: BOBDN
So let me get this straight.

You people have no problem with the USA becoming the next great power to attempt to rule over the entire planet.

Is that an accurate statement?

I guess we just assumed it was pretty obvious... I guess not. :beer:

 

[BOBDN]

Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

really?

again, you are going to the extreme. but it looks like you need to study history more.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

really?

again, you are going to the extreme. but it looks like you need to study history more.

Am I? And do I? Examples, or do you simply want to state your claim with no factual basis?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

really?

again, you are going to the extreme. but it looks like you need to study history more.

Am I? And do I? Examples, or do you simply want to state your claim with no factual basis?

I'm not going to do your homework for you. but, if I may ask, show me one nation that has expanded to greatness though love and peace. show me any great nation that has followed the Wheels of Fortunes motion by not harming the hairs of a single foreigner. show me any great empire/nation that hasn't expanded through war. show me any people that have capitulated without firing a single shot.

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

I understand the parallel you draw between the USA and past empires to suggest what may happen to the US if it wields its power to broadly. However, to be fair, we aren't rampaging through the world killing whomever we dislike. We are the first to try to garner international consensus. We are still a member of NATO, still the strongest proponent of the UN (would it continue to exist if the US rejected it? Most likely no). We aren't alone in our quest to destroy organized terrorism, either (no "rampaging") Most stable, industrialzed nations back our fight (even though some disagreed with the invasion of Iraq).

I've seen no evidence to suggest rampaging or jingoist intentions. We could have carpet bombed Iraqi and Afghani cities much like we did to Germany and Japan in WWII, but we didn't. We didn't have to at least attempt to pass 1441 in the Security Council.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

Great nations. Hmmmm

So we've won the cold war and become the world's only remaining super power to achieve what goals?

To use our might to force our will on every other sovereign nation on the planet. How long do you think we can last when the rest of the world becomes aware of our plans?

Check out Wolfowitz' 1991 Defence Planning Guidance or Kristol's Project for a New American Century.

These people are no more than latter day Genghis Khans.

Apologist? When I'm wrong I apologize. Pacifist? No, unfortunately I haven't achieved that level of consciousness yet. I still let people like you piss me off and although I try sometimes I don't react well. Weakling to the extreme? No, I'm no weakling. Don't make that mistake.

So you consider people weak who would rather live in peace than a state of permanent war? It takes a greater nation to use their power for good instead of bombing a third rate power back to the stone age under false pretences.

You have much to learn.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Taggart

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

I understand the parallel you draw between the USA and past empires to suggest what may happen to the US if it wields its power to broadly. However, to be fair, we aren't rampaging through the world killing whomever we dislike. We are the first to try to garner international consensus. We are still a member of NATO, still the strongest proponent of the UN (would it continue to exist if the US rejected it? Most likely no). We aren't alone in our quest to destroy organized terrorism, either (no "rampaging") Most stable, industrialzed nations back our fight (even though some disagreed with the invasion of Iraq).

I've seen no evidence to suggest rampaging or jingoist intentions. We could have carpet bombed Iraqi and Afghani cities much like we did to Germany and Japan in WWII, but we didn't. We didn't have to at least attempt to pass 1441 in the Security Council.

International concensus was not garnered for the current invasion in Iraq. We are indeed rampaging through the world effecting "regime change" as Bush and Co. see fit. We did bomb Iraq back to the stone age and now we're paying companies with connections to the Bush White House to rebuild what we've destroyed.

Where do we get the authority to use our military power to change governments throughout the world? Is the end product of years of diplomacy gun boat diplomacy? This is the best we can do?

There are never good results from this world domination scenario. Claiming to be the good guy or have God on your side doesn't change the end result for the people your bombs are killing or the nations they're destroying.

If this is the product of thousands of years of human evolution we all may as well move back into caves.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

Great nations. Hmmmm

So we've won the cold war and become the world's only remaining super power to achieve what goals?

To use our might to force our will on every other sovereign nation on the planet. How long do you think we can last when the rest of the world becomes aware of our plans?

Check out Wolfowitz' 1991 Defence Planning Guidance or Kristol's Project for a New American Century.

These people are no more than latter day Genghis Khans.

Apologist? When I'm wrong I apologize. Pacifist? No, unfortunately I haven't achieved that level of consciousness yet. I still let people like you piss me off and although I try sometimes I don't react well. Weakling to the extreme? No, I'm no weakling. Don't make that mistake.

So you consider people weak who would rather live in peace than a state of permanent war? It takes a greater nation to use their power for good instead of bombing a third rate power back to the stone age under false pretences.

You have much to learn.

if you could ask any preemminent power from the past, they will tell you that they were always in a permanent state of war. Look at my thread entitled "Un-official US foreign policy. a war every ten years." false pretences or not, the main reasons were american interests.

alas, you will never get it. you haven't the slightest idea what problems global leaders face. they are quite different from yours. as someone famously said, war is peace.

let's just agree to disagree.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

Maybe I'm misreading history but the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mongols, Chinese, Persians, Turks, British, French, etc. basically destroyed any opposition to their rule. That's what empire is all about really, domination of other peoples.

But I don't think the US should seek empire, nor do I think it is on the path of doing so.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

Maybe I'm misreading history but the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mongols, Chinese, Persians, Turks, British, French, etc. basically destroyed any opposition to their rule. That's what empire is all about really, domination of other peoples.

But I don't think the US should seek empire, nor do I think it is on the path of doing so.

you're right about the first part. but your opinion on the us becoming an empire is false. when you have soldiers in over a 110 countries, are the main defender of entire continents and regions, are the source of over a third of the global economy, and are the preemminent influence in media and politics, you are an empire.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

Great nations. Hmmmm

So we've won the cold war and become the world's only remaining super power to achieve what goals?

To use our might to force our will on every other sovereign nation on the planet. How long do you think we can last when the rest of the world becomes aware of our plans?

Check out Wolfowitz' 1991 Defence Planning Guidance or Kristol's Project for a New American Century.

These people are no more than latter day Genghis Khans.

Apologist? When I'm wrong I apologize. Pacifist? No, unfortunately I haven't achieved that level of consciousness yet. I still let people like you piss me off and although I try sometimes I don't react well. Weakling to the extreme? No, I'm no weakling. Don't make that mistake.

So you consider people weak who would rather live in peace than a state of permanent war? It takes a greater nation to use their power for good instead of bombing a third rate power back to the stone age under false pretences.

You have much to learn.

if you could ask any preemminent power from the past, they will tell you that they were always in a permanent state of war. Look at my thread entitled "Un-official US foreign policy. a war every ten years." false pretences or not, the main reasons were american interests.

alas, you will never get it. you haven't the slightest idea what problems global leaders face. they are quite different from yours. as someone famously said, war is peace.

let's just agree to disagree.

OMG, and you are accusing someone else of not getting it.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

Maybe I'm misreading history but the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mongols, Chinese, Persians, Turks, British, French, etc. basically destroyed any opposition to their rule. That's what empire is all about really, domination of other peoples.

But I don't think the US should seek empire, nor do I think it is on the path of doing so.

you're right about the first part. but your opinion on the us becoming an empire is false. when you have soldiers in over a 110 countries, are the main defender of entire continents and regions, are the source of over a third of the global economy, and are the preemminent influence in media and politics, you are an empire.

In how many of those countries are the soldiers there just because we have an embassy? Which continent(s) are we the "main defender"?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: BOBDN
Has anyone taken the time to realize this has all been tried many times before.........and never with good results?

wtf is wrong with you. great nations have risen...and fallen. no one here is denying that that won't happen to this country. what do you suggest, that we be more timid and avoid our responsibility to history? you are an apologist, pacifist, and weakling to the extreme.

So you'd rather be a warmongerer, a hawk, a jingoist and a nationalist and let America fall in far fewer years than otherwise? Check your history books, the empires that stayed around the longest aren't the ones who rampaged through the world killing whomever they disliked ...

Maybe I'm misreading history but the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mongols, Chinese, Persians, Turks, British, French, etc. basically destroyed any opposition to their rule. That's what empire is all about really, domination of other peoples.

But I don't think the US should seek empire, nor do I think it is on the path of doing so.

you're right about the first part. but your opinion on the us becoming an empire is false. when you have soldiers in over a 110 countries, are the main defender of entire continents and regions, are the source of over a third of the global economy, and are the preemminent influence in media and politics, you are an empire.

In how many of those countries are the soldiers there just because we have an embassy? Which continent(s) are we the "main defender"?

They are there to defend against the other soldiers stationed in a neighboring country.

 

[tcsenter]

We're going to rule the world!! HEE HEE!!!

Can I get a woot for world domination?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
We're going to rule the world!! HEE HEE!!!

Can I get a woot for world domination?

No, but a Sig Heil will do just as well.

Seriously, Bigdude is one of the better trollers here. I always find his posts curiously amusing. Probably a liberal coming up with the most outlandish things, then sitting back laughing as others to toe the line.