Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Appropriate notice has been forwarded to the appropriate authorities.
Appropriate notice has been forwarded to the appropriate authorities.
I wonder what you would say if some random country start pickung off US scientists.
Something is wrong with the world if you are in a 3rd world country have have to fear for your life for being educated instead of fulfilling the western cliché of being a dumb peasant
Something is wrong with the world if you are in a 3rd world country have have to fear for your life for being educated instead of fulfilling the western cliché of being a dumb peasant
Considering Hezbollah targetting cities and towns (shocker!!), Israel has shown a lot of restraint.
I'm not surprised that a hypocrite like you would advocate the status-quo, while if it happened to your town you'd be throwing tantrums like a two year old, demanding that Bush would take some action.
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,709
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Yeah it takes alot of restraint to drop cluster bombs on residential areas 72 hours before you know you are withdrawing from the region due to political pressure.
And dont forget Hezbollah wouldnt even exist right now if Israel didnt occupy Lebanon in the 80's.
But anyway, I'm glad to see that Israel was not actually behind this. Targetting civilians is bad, mmkay?
Usually there aren't any machine-guns and explosives under roads in residential areas, unless you're working with a different definition.
And Israel wouldn't have been in Lebanon if the PLO didn't establish a base of operation there in the 70's, but I know you don't consider such details relevant.
And Israel wouldn't have been in Lebanon if the PLO didn't establish a base of operation there in the 70's, but I know you don't consider such details relevant.
There's a reason why Hezbollah has media officers, which make sure that Western media gets only a part of the picture, and does not venture into certain areas.
Are you bitching about "bias" because you don't want to debate the presence of heavy armament in "residential" areas?
Moral superiority doesn't win the battle -- they should've cluster bombed them from the get-go.
Are you bitching about "bias" because you don't want to debate the presence of heavy armament in "residential" areas?
Moral superiority doesn't win the battle -- they should've cluster bombed them from the get-go.
- Aug 22, 2001
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The most vociferous contentions of late, are based upon remarks made by Iranian president Ahmadinejad in the past e.g. denying the Holocaust, quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini about how Israel must be wiped out from the map of the world, and stating that "God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism."
Obviously, their version of the "Axis of evil" speech, hasn't gone over well with the Brits, Israelis, or here in the U.S. Now, the race is on, as to wether Iran can get the nuke first, thus having a hand in the big game, or we bounce them right out of the casino before they can ante up. I'll be greatly surprised if W doesn't get a go ahead from God, to try to cripple their program before his admin is over. The damned rapture isn't going to happen by itself ya know!
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,389
- 29
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Yet another unjustified and unwarranted personal attack by Harvey. I wonder why it is the mods let this blatant violation of the rules to be ignored? Perhaps they just don't know about it.........
In any event, you are one disturbed individual Harvey. I see nothing in PJ's post giving any sign of approval of the tactics used. "interesting" /= approval.
However, I do see plenty of bloodlust in your post, so in the eyes of PJ's accuser, what does that make you?
Seek professional help Harvey.
Iran is a terrorist state. They have proven they support terrorism. They even sent their Army troops in with the Hezbolah to attack Isreal. Does not take much to put two and two together.
If lots of civilians die in Iran it will be their own fault for openly supporting terrorism and having their president say death to Isreal in public. In this world if you run around and say things like that you are inviting the world to do something about it. The only reason we have not is we dont want to cut off the world's Oil Supply.
Iran is playing a very dangerous game.
If lots of civilians die in Iran it will be their own fault for openly supporting terrorism and having their president say death to Isreal in public. In this world if you run around and say things like that you are inviting the world to do something about it. The only reason we have not is we dont want to cut off the world's Oil Supply.
Iran is playing a very dangerous game.
As said previously in the thread: The man was a scientist who--I'm going to make an assumption here--worked with dangerous materials. What if he was just poisoned accidentally doing his job?
This reminds me of when that engaged lady ran away to Canada b/c she was freaked out and the media latched on and figured she had been kidnapped or something. Turned out to be she just was freaked out and there was no crime.
Lets not jump to any conclusions here.
Also lets not equate the people who live there with their leaders. Some scientist is just doing his job probably making a living the only way he knows how. It is how he was educated, lets not walk around talking like assassinating scientists is a good idea.
Hell, think about this. In the cold war many Russian scientists were practically (or were) FORCED into working on weapons. Should we have killed them? Would that have been the moral thing to do?
This is Iran we are talking about here, not the most morally run contries in the world. How do we know what circumstances their nuclear scientists are working under. Lets not talk about killing the scientists as if it is a good thing.
If Mossad went and took out the Iranian president--well okay, I can totally understand that--the guy clearly wants Isreal destroyed. BUT THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY KILLING IRANIAN CIVILIANS ANY MORE THAN STALIN BEING CRAZY JUSTIFIED KILLING RUSSIAN CIVILIANS 60YRS AGO.
There is a point at which a nation needs to take the moral high ground, get other nations to see this moral high ground and either inspire or shame them into seeing the truth. We seem to have forgotten that in the past 10 years or so and it very much saddens me.
This reminds me of when that engaged lady ran away to Canada b/c she was freaked out and the media latched on and figured she had been kidnapped or something. Turned out to be she just was freaked out and there was no crime.
Lets not jump to any conclusions here.
Also lets not equate the people who live there with their leaders. Some scientist is just doing his job probably making a living the only way he knows how. It is how he was educated, lets not walk around talking like assassinating scientists is a good idea.
Hell, think about this. In the cold war many Russian scientists were practically (or were) FORCED into working on weapons. Should we have killed them? Would that have been the moral thing to do?
This is Iran we are talking about here, not the most morally run contries in the world. How do we know what circumstances their nuclear scientists are working under. Lets not talk about killing the scientists as if it is a good thing.
If Mossad went and took out the Iranian president--well okay, I can totally understand that--the guy clearly wants Isreal destroyed. BUT THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY KILLING IRANIAN CIVILIANS ANY MORE THAN STALIN BEING CRAZY JUSTIFIED KILLING RUSSIAN CIVILIANS 60YRS AGO.
There is a point at which a nation needs to take the moral high ground, get other nations to see this moral high ground and either inspire or shame them into seeing the truth. We seem to have forgotten that in the past 10 years or so and it very much saddens me.
Iran kills civilians every day by supporting terrorism. The bombs in Iraq are coming from Iran, and they are killing civilians. Iran does not care about civilians.
Good. Israeli did what it had to do. I'm sure if Iran was bordering the United States or Britain more would be done.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
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I susupect some of those denouncing assasinations. decrying blood lust etc, are doing so primarily becuase the thread was started was Prof John.
Relax, assasination is a high art form, and long practiced, in that region.
Most likely we can all join together and denounce assasination when practiced on a popular political figure - like Lebanons political leader killed by the Syrians.
The complaints are, properly, far more muted when it's someone developing large scale WMD like George Bull.
I see no difference here. Scientists who work in the development of such weapons make themselves targets, and they know it. Claiming to be a mere civilian fools no one (or very few).
And yes, we could have expected Einstein to be assasinated. I've no doubts Germany or Japan would have done so had they had the opportunity. Thta's surely part of the reason the project was so top secret.
Fern
Relax, assasination is a high art form, and long practiced, in that region.
Most likely we can all join together and denounce assasination when practiced on a popular political figure - like Lebanons political leader killed by the Syrians.
The complaints are, properly, far more muted when it's someone developing large scale WMD like George Bull.
I see no difference here. Scientists who work in the development of such weapons make themselves targets, and they know it. Claiming to be a mere civilian fools no one (or very few).
And yes, we could have expected Einstein to be assasinated. I've no doubts Germany or Japan would have done so had they had the opportunity. Thta's surely part of the reason the project was so top secret.
Fern
uhm both Hezbollah and Israel targeted cities and towns without a care who was in them.
this only happened after Israel decided to invade.
If the PM didn't act like an idiot, no civilians would have been killed and the violence would have continued to be military vs military.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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oh, so Hezbollah would have come out from hiding beneath civilian apartment buildings and homes? ya...right...
1) How could the situation have remained military vs. military when the Hezbollah itself is not a recognized state-sponsored military?
2) Better yet, what specific actions on Israel's part led to Hezbollah using Lebanese "citizens" as human shields?
3) What, specifically, could Israel have done differently to neutralize the Hezbollah threat once it was determined that Hez was hiding behind a human shield?
Aimster, you've obviously transformed into a Hezbollah fanboi, otherwise you would not be making clueless remarks.
Hezbollah has targetted towns in previous years as well, but I'm sure you'll tell me that it was a legitimate form of "resistance".
Hezbollah has targetted towns in previous years as well, but I'm sure you'll tell me that it was a legitimate form of "resistance".
Hezbollah was using nobody as human shields.
Israel was INVADING. It is their country and people are allowed to fight for their country. That is exactly what Hezbollah is.
The conflict between Israel and Hezbollah has always been military vs military. Guns Vs. Guns.
Hezbollah was not going around blowing up civilians. It was not going around murdering children. It was fighting Israeli military units and Israel was fighting Hezbollah as well.
You act as if Hezbollah started the conflict. The conflict was going on for years.
Hezbollah warned Israel never to invade Lebanon again. Israel didn't give a damn and decided to do it anyways. No cross out Israel, the idiot PM didn't give a damn. He is the Bush of the M.E.
Can you prove anything I said to be inaccurate or do you yet again want to blabber on about how great Israel is and anyone who attacks them is the enemy?
Yes Israel just sat there while Hezbollah launched rockets at them. Is that what you are saying?
It is not like Israel sent aircraft into Lebanon to bomb Hezbollah positions or send in troops to kill Hezbollah figthers. I mean Israel was the innocent one. Poor Israel.
poor Mother Israel.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
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right there is where you lose credibility with anyone who paid attention to the way in which Hebollah waged the war. Hezbollahs primary defensive tactic was their blending in with the civilian population and hiding their "soldiers" and weapons in, under, next to, or on top of civilian facilities.
Lebanon is NOT Hezbollah's country. The country has an established government and military. Hezbollah, rather, is a terrorist arm of the Iranian government.
AFAIC, Hezbollah are the ones who have invaded and occupied Lebanon.
which would be swell if Hez didn't go and hide all of their "military" personnel and weapons in, and amongst, the general population. Israel, on the other hand, brought their troops and equipment up on line, and started marching -- entirely separated from their own civilian population! That didnt seem to stop Hezbollah from lobbing rockets into Israel's civilian centers on an hourly basis!
I beg to differ. Blindly aiming powerful rockets at major Israeli cities, with little or no military presence, should very much be considered "blowing up civilians."
That is true of the action on the ground in the southern villages along the Israel/Lebanon border. However, Hezbollah was lobbing rockets into Haifa on an hourly basis; most of which were being fired from areas with a high concentration of civilians.
perhaps, but it was Hezbollah who initiated that round in the hostilities when they attacked and kidnapped several Israeli soldiers on Israeli soil. Then, once they realized that it was a HUGE tactical mistake, they refused to turn those hostages over to Israel's government.
Israel had every right to retaliate.
Their warning became null and void the second they decided to invade Israeli territory to attack and kidnap Israeli soldiers.
Once again, Hezbollah initiated that round of hostilities, so Israel had every right to retaliate.
Last year, Israel's biggest mistake was in not calling up their entire military and marching through Lebanon until every member of Hezbollah was wiped out. They could have then retreated and let Lebanon rebuild their nation without Hezbollah. As it stands, Hezbollah is simply regrouping and digging in deeper -- all in preparation for the next time Iran tells them to hit Israel.
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