Iran ready to build nuclear weapon, analysts say

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse
Continued sanctions

Like the ones imposed on Iraq? That aided in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, many of them children? And would we be enforcing them in a similar fashion?

Have you read/heard anything that indicates that current sanctions on Iran are causing the Iranians to starve? Blaming the deaths of Iraqi citizens on the sanctions is somewhat intellectually dishonest. Saddam Hussein was a completely different animal... he was an evil son of a bitch who seemed to draw most of his own self-worth and power based solely on the amount of suffering he could cause his own people. The Iranian leadership isn't like that at all, which is why I still have hope for the diplomatic efforts and international pressure...

Hot air really. If they really want them, "pressure" isn't going to change their mind, and certainly won't prevent them from building.

Perhaps not... maybe the pressure needs to be ramped up a bit. Maybe it's all futile, and we should just prepare for the inevitable war between Israel and Iran...

Fine with me, but I am NOT willing to send them money/aid/whatever at the cost of taxpayers.

I agree.

Trade agreements would most likely be ok.

I agree.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

I am saying, they will have the capabilities to do it soon, or already.

A country that actively supports "wiping a country off the face of the earth" whether it be making conferences on it, or by funding 2 terrorist organizations, should never get nuclear power.

Right, and I'm asking you what you think they will do with this capability. I'm not a big fan of Iran getting nukes either, but I know why I think that and I bet it's very different than why you do. Your posts seem to indicate that you think they would use these weapons on Israel (or anyone else for that matter). I'm wondering why you think this.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

I am saying, they will have the capabilities to do it soon, or already.

A country that actively supports "wiping a country off the face of the earth" whether it be making conferences on it, or by funding 2 terrorist organizations, should never get nuclear power.

Right, and I'm asking you what you think they will do with this capability. I'm not a big fan of Iran getting nukes either, but I know why I think that and I bet it's very different than why you do. Your posts seem to indicate that you think they would use these weapons on Israel (or anyone else for that matter). I'm wondering why you think this.

Given the rhetoric by the Iran leader (which seems tobe blessed by the leadership - noone is challenging his words) and the support (financial/weaponry) to states/groups thtare sworn to destroy Israel; Israel has the justification to be nervous.

If there was now support, then it could be construed as hot air.

 

[mafia]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I said specifically, not broadly. If you don't want to take out the time to type the details to substanciate[-edit] your argument, so be it, but I have no interest in addressing such vagary.

How much more details do you need.

Everyone else on the board knows what the dates/incidents refer to.

You asked about first strikes against Israel and I listed the dates that it happened
For dates that may have been vague, I also listed the incident.

I don't need any more details, but I am not going put effort into addressing your arguments unless you are willing to put the effort into fleshing them out, meaning filling in all of the five Ws. Granted, if you bothered to include all that, you'd tear down much of your argument yourself.

first strike - 48
Arab armies attack Israel when independence was declared.
Why - because they did not want Israel to exist
Result - Asses kicked, Arabas cry to UN for protection and promise to be good.
Arabs also ignore the Palestinians.

first strike - 56
Arab armies attack Israel thinking that they could succeed with Russian technology.
Why - who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Asses kicked, Arabas cry to UN for protection and promise to be good.
Arabs also ignore the Palestinians.

first strike - 73
Arab armies again attach Israel on the Jewish holy day hoping for a suprise that would allow them tosucceed where they failed before.
Why - same as before
Results - Same as above

Preemptive strike - 67
Arab armies mass to attack Israel. egype closes the suez in an international act of war
Israel preempts
Why - who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Asses kicked, Arabas cry to UN for protection and promise to be good.
Arabs also ignore the Palestinians.


Munich - Arab supported terrorist (PLO) attack the Olympics and target only the Israeli contiguent
Why- who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Only Israel Olypmians are executed

Entebbe - Arab supported terrorist (PLO) hijack an AirFrance flight from Tel-Aviv, take it to Africa and threaten to kill passengers.
Why- who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Israelli commandos rescue without any support for the world. Condemnation on the attack from the Communist & Arab block for attacks on a foriegn territory.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please identify issues where Israel has attacked countries without provocation, threaten to extermination them, broke treaties again and again.

Where has Israel gone and executed civilians at world functions; Where has Israel had people hijack ariliners?

It seems as if the Palestinians and Arabs have the edge on first strikes against opponents.
none of my above examples on first strikes have it been an isolated group; but a well planned operations with plenty of state backing.

You can defend the Palestinians by stating that they had the right to attack and/or had been provoked.

However, the UN authorized Israel and attacks identified by the Palestinians an the Arabs will be difficult for you to justifiy to a non-rabib Arab supporter.

You may also choose to state that I did not provide all the details that you asked; part because there is no need to dig up all the details - they are out there, but contradict your rose colored views.


Start a new thread if you choose to continue this debate. Otherwise we are hijacking this thread.

Lest we forget that Israel has done the first major strike. They are one of the youngest civlization in the region, (May 14, 1948) and were put there by British and Americans. Fleeing Europe from Hitlers rein of power, the Jewish people all migrated to the land which is now known as Israel. Those that did not go to Israel most likely ended up in the United States. To the Palestinians who origanally lived in that area had their land taken away by the Jewish people. Lets not forget that ever since Israel was created, it always had problems. Every neighbor has had a war conflict with them. Maybe because they took the land in the first place. (Sorry but I just had to write this I know you said start a new thread sorry again! )



Let say hypothetically that Iran did launch a nuclear missle to Israel and it did explode in the middle of Tel Aviv. I don't really think the U.S. would counter that by launching another nuke at Iran. That would show a bad example and would be very in-humane. U.S. would only launch a missle if Iran would launch it directly at United States. What the U.S. would do instead is execute a full blown invasion of Iran. Which is of course where the draft would come in. To be honest, I wouldn't really want thousands of our soldiers sacrificing their lives for Israel, a country which everybody in the Middle East hates.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: mafia
Lest we forget that Israel has done the first major strike. They are one of the youngest civlization in the region, (May 14, 1948) and were put there by British and Americans. Fleeing Europe from Hitlers rein of power, the Jewish people all migrated to the land which is now known as Israel. Those that did not go to Israel most likely ended up in the United States. To the Palestinians who origanally lived in that area had their land taken away by the Jewish people. Lets not forget that ever since Israel was created, it always had problems. Every neighbor has had a war conflict with them. Maybe because they took the land in the first place. (Sorry but I just had to write this I know you said start a new thread sorry again! )

Let say hypothetically that Iran did launch a nuclear missle to Israel and it did explode in the middle of Tel Aviv. I don't really think the U.S. would counter that by launching another nuke at Iran. That would show a bad example and would be very in-humane. U.S. would only launch a missle if Iran would launch it directly at United States. What the U.S. would do instead is execute a full blown invasion of Iran. Which is of course where the draft would come in. To be honest, I wouldn't really want thousands of our soldiers sacrificing their lives for Israel, a country which everybody in the Middle East hates.

For real?! :roll:

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Which is why even if Iran ever does develop nuclear weapons, they would only serve as a deterrent, just as they do in any other nation.

so what are you smokin...you are smarter than that...my God!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
When you pull your head out of the sand, you may find that the Palestinians and the Arabs have wanted to destroy Israel.

Plenty of first strikes agaisnt Israel, yet none have suceeded. but ist shows that Israel should not trust those thatstate that they are against them.

If you care to list the first strikes against Israel you elude to specifically, I'd be happy to tear your argument down.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
The Iranians have no concerns about the Palestians and the PR agasint them if they were to take out Israel would not matter vs the acolades from the Muslim world.

Rather, you have concerns about the millions of people you dismiss as "the Palestians" and hence are incapable of comprehending the concerns of others.

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Go back and re-read what I said, only things relevant in your reply was saying Iran is not willing to take the PR backlash from nuking Israel which I consider a non issue as there will be no more Iran and their leaders know this, biggest question to me is who is in charge and are they suicidal?

My response was all in regard to what you wrote. As for your question, see what Lemon law wrote, and don't just read it, come to terms with it.

*sigh*
If that's your answer you're added to my mental list of people to ignore on this sub forum.

You must rememner young Jedi that Snowman only resonds to questions without truly answering them! His strength is too talk in reference to his own reality!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Gotta say Brovane is about 100% correct. Israel has managed to derail the nuclear ambitions of Syria and Iraq, but Iran is just to big, too far away, and too smart to allow Israel to bully them.

As long as Iran stays in compliance with the IAEA, any Israeli crying, bitching, and moaning will amount to Israeli crying, bitching, and moaning. Its going to take Israeli nukes to destroy the deeply buried
Iranian facilities, something impossible to justify as a preemptive strike. And after crying wolf over Iraqi WMD, Israel and the USA have zero credibility with the IAEA, who have had it up to their eyeballs with panic mongers.

as if thats going to stop Israel from going after Iran...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: mafia

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I said specifically, not broadly. If you don't want to take out the time to type the details to substanciate[-edit] your argument, so be it, but I have no interest in addressing such vagary.

How much more details do you need.

Everyone else on the board knows what the dates/incidents refer to.

You asked about first strikes against Israel and I listed the dates that it happened
For dates that may have been vague, I also listed the incident.

I don't need any more details, but I am not going put effort into addressing your arguments unless you are willing to put the effort into fleshing them out, meaning filling in all of the five Ws. Granted, if you bothered to include all that, you'd tear down much of your argument yourself.

first strike - 48
Arab armies attack Israel when independence was declared.
Why - because they did not want Israel to exist
Result - Asses kicked, Arabas cry to UN for protection and promise to be good.
Arabs also ignore the Palestinians.

first strike - 56
Arab armies attack Israel thinking that they could succeed with Russian technology.
Why - who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Asses kicked, Arabas cry to UN for protection and promise to be good.
Arabs also ignore the Palestinians.

first strike - 73
Arab armies again attach Israel on the Jewish holy day hoping for a suprise that would allow them tosucceed where they failed before.
Why - same as before
Results - Same as above

Preemptive strike - 67
Arab armies mass to attack Israel. egype closes the suez in an international act of war
Israel preempts
Why - who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Asses kicked, Arabas cry to UN for protection and promise to be good.
Arabs also ignore the Palestinians.


Munich - Arab supported terrorist (PLO) attack the Olympics and target only the Israeli contiguent
Why- who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Only Israel Olypmians are executed

Entebbe - Arab supported terrorist (PLO) hijack an AirFrance flight from Tel-Aviv, take it to Africa and threaten to kill passengers.
Why- who knows the Arab leadership mind.
Result - Israelli commandos rescue without any support for the world. Condemnation on the attack from the Communist & Arab block for attacks on a foriegn territory.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please identify issues where Israel has attacked countries without provocation, threaten to extermination them, broke treaties again and again.

Where has Israel gone and executed civilians at world functions; Where has Israel had people hijack ariliners?

It seems as if the Palestinians and Arabs have the edge on first strikes against opponents.
none of my above examples on first strikes have it been an isolated group; but a well planned operations with plenty of state backing.

You can defend the Palestinians by stating that they had the right to attack and/or had been provoked.

However, the UN authorized Israel and attacks identified by the Palestinians an the Arabs will be difficult for you to justifiy to a non-rabib Arab supporter.

You may also choose to state that I did not provide all the details that you asked; part because there is no need to dig up all the details - they are out there, but contradict your rose colored views.


Start a new thread if you choose to continue this debate. Otherwise we are hijacking this thread.

Lest we( who is we? Who do you think you are speaking for?) forget that Israel has done the first major strike. <-------That`s as stoopid a statement as there is to make!! Idiotic too and with no supporting proof other than a hypothesis from you....sad




They are one of the youngest civlization in the region, (May 14, 1948) and were put there by British and Americans. Fleeing Europe from Hitlers rein of power, the Jewish people all migrated to the land which is now known as Israel. Those that did not go to Israel most likely ended up in the United States. To the Palestinians who origanally lived in that area had their land taken away by the Jewish people. Lets not forget that ever since Israel was created, it always had problems. Every neighbor has had a war conflict with them. Maybe because they took the land in the first place. (Sorry but I just had to write this I know you said start a new thread sorry again! )



Let say hypothetically that Iran did launch a nuclear missle to Israel and it did explode in the middle of Tel Aviv. I don't really think the U.S. would counter that by launching another nuke at Iran. That would show a bad example and would be very in-humane. U.S. would only launch a missle if Iran would launch it directly at United States. What the U.S. would do instead is execute a full blown invasion of Iran. Which is of course where the draft would come in. To be honest, I wouldn't really want thousands of our soldiers sacrificing their lives for Israel, a country which everybody in the Middle East hates.

 

[Lemon law]

JEDIYoda may be correct that mere logic and rationality may not apply, " as if thats going to stop Israel from going after Iran... "

But fortunately, some matters of logistics do prevent any effective Iranian strikes. Because the Iranian nuclear strikes are deeply buried, its going to take very heavy bunker busting bombs to even scratch them.
And the Israeli air force does not any planes capable of lifting bunker busters.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
JEDIYoda may be correct that mere logic and rationality may not apply, " as if thats going to stop Israel from going after Iran... "

But fortunately, some matters of logistics do prevent any effective Iranian strikes. Because the Iranian nuclear strikes are deeply buried, its going to take very heavy bunker busting bombs to even scratch them.
And the Israeli air force does not any planes capable of lifting bunker busters.

Bunkers require external access.
I would suspect that this is where Israel would target the ordance.
Seal them off from the outside. Collapse the tunnels and air shafts as well as the utility feeds.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Lemon law
JEDIYoda may be correct that mere logic and rationality may not apply, " as if thats going to stop Israel from going after Iran... "

But fortunately, some matters of logistics do prevent any effective Iranian strikes. Because the Iranian nuclear strikes are deeply buried, its going to take very heavy bunker busting bombs to even scratch them.
And the Israeli air force does not any planes capable of lifting bunker busters.

Bunkers require external access.
I would suspect that this is where Israel would target the ordance.
Seal them off from the outside. Collapse the tunnels and air shafts as well as the utility feeds.

Correct. One does not necessarily need to hit the actual facility. Destroying support infrastructure, access, supplies, personnel perhaps, can be as effective as actually destroying the facilty.

If the facility cannot be used even if undamaged, then it is no longer a threat.