Iran may start a war with Israel

[Lemon law]

Maybe FresgGearDude somewhat puts his finger on one contention with, "I know you like to believe that suicide bombers, bus bombs, rocket attacks, mortar shellings on civilians arent terrorist acts, 99.9% of the real world would disagree with you."

In all due respects FreshgearDude, I do not disagree with you, they are acts of Palestinian terrorism against Israel, even if they are largely ineffective.

But what that seemingly ignores, is why Palestinians do not love the State of Israel, the very state that stole their land and possessions and make them into third class citizens in the land of their own birth.

So there are two sides to this story, Israel would have us believe that Palestinians hate Israeli Jews simply because of antisemitism, while Israel has also been saying it will grant them fair treatment when Palestinians renounce violence. The huge reality test problem with that Israeli propaganda line is that the good Palestinians in the West Bank ruled by Fatah have received no such concessions from Israel after renouncing violence, and in fact are rewarded by more Israeli settlement and regimentation as time goes on.

So what we really have here is Israel being attacked by Palestinian terrorists because Israel robbed them while Israel says we are being unfairly attacked by terrorists. Both sides are sticking to their insistence the other side is the bad guys, and so has this mess gone for 62 years while the problem, instead of getting smaller over time , gets bigger and more explosive by the day.

Truth be told, IMHO, its mostly bad behavior on all sides, and the longer we wait to solve the problem, the harder and more intractable it becomes.

 

[cubby1223]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/world/09iran.html?hp

Of course one can pretend it's completely unrelated to the Gaza situation, but Russia and TURKEY are meeting with Iran now. Whatever unity there was for serious sanctions seems to be crumbling. Was it worth blocking humanitarian aid to Gaza? That's for Israel to decide.

You write such things as if you actually believe there was unified support of sanctions on Iran prior to the Gaza-bound hate boat.

 

[cubby1223]

Truth be told, IMHO, its mostly bad behavior on all sides, and the longer we wait to solve the problem, the harder and more intractable it becomes.

And you write such things as if you think it is a problem we are capable solving, just so long if we, as an outside influence, just dedicate ourselves enough to solving it.

How's that hopey-changey thing working out for ya?

 

[Lemon law]

I believe cubby1223 is basically correct in saying, "You write such things as if you actually believe there was unified support of sanctions on Iran prior to the Gaza-bound hate boat. "

But as I follow the various reports from the UN, it does look like the US backed Iranian sanctions may tighten some, including new Sanctions against Iranian banks and Iranian flagged merchant vessels.

Time will tell and in only a few days, and not a done deal yet. I for one think cheer leading for any side will accomplish nothing. But to pretend Iranian sanctions are not linked to the Gaza blockade problems may be a total fools game.

 

[nageov3t]

why does Russia give a shit about Gaza?

 

[Jhhnn]

And you write such things as if you think it is a problem we are capable solving, just so long if we, as an outside influence, just dedicate ourselves enough to solving it.

How's that hopey-changey thing working out for ya?

Well, one thing's for sure- unconditional US support for Israel won't tend to moderate their behavior, bet on that...

 

[Noobtastic]

Time will tell and in only a few days, and not a done deal yet. I for one think cheer leading for any side will accomplish nothing. But to pretend Iranian sanctions are not linked to the Gaza blockade problems may be a total fools game.

What does Gaza and Iran have anything to do with each other?

This attack on Israel over Gaza is merely a lightening rod, used to enable Iran to develop nukes and also shield the crimes committed by the Muslim states.

The blockade is sanctioned by international law, in fact it is demanded.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Maybe FresgGearDude somewhat puts his finger on one contention with, "I know you like to believe that suicide bombers, bus bombs, rocket attacks, mortar shellings on civilians arent terrorist acts, 99.9% of the real world would disagree with you."

In all due respects FreshgearDude, I do not disagree with you, they are acts of Palestinian terrorism against Israel, even if they are largely ineffective.

But what that seemingly ignores, is why Palestinians do not love the State of Israel, the very state that stole their land and possessions and make them into third class citizens in the land of their own birth.

So there are two sides to this story, Israel would have us believe that Palestinians hate Israeli Jews simply because of antisemitism, while Israel has also been saying it will grant them fair treatment when Palestinians renounce violence. The huge reality test problem with that Israeli propaganda line is that the good Palestinians in the West Bank ruled by Fatah have received no such concessions from Israel after renouncing violence, and in fact are rewarded by more Israeli settlement and regimentation as time goes on.

So what we really have here is Israel being attacked by Palestinian terrorists because Israel robbed them while Israel says we are being unfairly attacked by terrorists. Both sides are sticking to their insistence the other side is the bad guys, and so has this mess gone for 62 years while the problem, instead of getting smaller over time , gets bigger and more explosive by the day.

Truth be told, IMHO, its mostly bad behavior on all sides, and the longer we wait to solve the problem, the harder and more intractable it becomes.

Its not israel's fault that unstable opposing parties rule the gaza strip and west bank.

Each cant grant a fully brokered deal that will agree with the other.

We cant have peace talks with the West Bank and expect gaza to just follow along.

Oh and by the way, the Israeli hatred around the world isnt anti-semitism, because using that term includes the arabs themselves.

its more Jew-hatred.

saudi arabia, lebanon, syria, iran, etc all teach hatred of jews and israel in their children's curriculum.

I recall a video of a a lebanese woman who immigrated to the US and now supports israel completely. she explained how she was taught to hate israel and showed a book, published in saudi arabia. I am currently looking for it again to prove to you

 

[cubby1223]

Well, one thing's for sure- unconditional US support for Israel won't tend to moderate their behavior, bet on that...

And a reversal, unconditional U.S. support for Palestine against Israel, would probably in Iran's minds prove them right and further embolden them. Iran is going to do what Iran wants to do and will take anything we do and spin it to their advantage.

 

[Jhhnn]

And a reversal, unconditional U.S. support for Palestine against Israel, would probably in Iran's minds prove them right and further embolden them. Iran is going to do what Iran wants to do and will take anything we do and spin it to their advantage.

Yeh- like that'll happen any time RSN. Your comment is an absurdity.

 

[cubby1223]

Yeh- like that'll happen any time RSN. Your comment is an absurdity.

Nope. It goes to show that Iran is going to do what Iran wants to do. The comment explained for those with comprehension deficiencies, is that we as Americans should do what we think is right, not what we think will best appease our enemy.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nope. It goes to show that Iran is going to do what Iran wants to do. The comment explained for those with comprehension deficiencies, is that we as Americans should do what we think is right, not what we think will best appease our enemy.

Nor should we do what will appease our friends, either, when we think they're not acting in our best interests.

 

[CKent]

Maybe FresgGearDude somewhat puts his finger on one contention with, "I know you like to believe that suicide bombers, bus bombs, rocket attacks, mortar shellings on civilians arent terrorist acts, 99.9% of the real world would disagree with you."

In all due respects FreshgearDude, I do not disagree with you, they are acts of Palestinian terrorism against Israel, even if they are largely ineffective.

But what that seemingly ignores, is why Palestinians do not love the State of Israel, the very state that stole their land and possessions and make them into third class citizens in the land of their own birth.

So there are two sides to this story, Israel would have us believe that Palestinians hate Israeli Jews simply because of antisemitism, while Israel has also been saying it will grant them fair treatment when Palestinians renounce violence. The huge reality test problem with that Israeli propaganda line is that the good Palestinians in the West Bank ruled by Fatah have received no such concessions from Israel after renouncing violence, and in fact are rewarded by more Israeli settlement and regimentation as time goes on.

So what we really have here is Israel being attacked by Palestinian terrorists because Israel robbed them while Israel says we are being unfairly attacked by terrorists. Both sides are sticking to their insistence the other side is the bad guys, and so has this mess gone for 62 years while the problem, instead of getting smaller over time , gets bigger and more explosive by the day.

Truth be told, IMHO, its mostly bad behavior on all sides, and the longer we wait to solve the problem, the harder and more intractable it becomes.

Only one of those sides ritually punishes women for the crime of being female. Only one of those sides decided that it was the fault of people halfway around the world, most of whom weren't born in 1948, much less care either way, and slaughtered 3,000 of them. Only one side specifically targets women, children and other civilians in their attacks, then shields themselves with their own women & children to get the bleeding heart support when the media spreads the story.

It seems pretty clear who the bad guys are.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe we need to take a close look at the FreshGearDude Contention of, "I recall a video of a a lebanese woman who immigrated to the US and now supports israel completely. she explained how she was taught to hate israel and showed a book, published in saudi arabia. I am currently looking for it again to prove to you"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Far from calling you a liar FreshGearDude, I instead say don't bother. But then again why shouldn't I say, if you feel froggie, go right ahead.

Just if you think for one mad moment that the view of just one person in Lebanon can speak for the entire nation of Lebanon with its many million population, you are nuttier than a fruitcake and can prove exactly nothing in so doing.

But if you want to prove that all mid-east nations, including Israel, have somewhat state sponsored biased education systems, you will not get much argument from me. The problem becomes is that it becomes a two edged sword, and shows both the Muslim and Israeli Jewish Educational systems help perpetuate hatreds. And these biased educational systems are just another dimension perpetuating conflict and hatreds in the mid-east.

But if we wnt to talk about aggregate numbers you may not like this this Fact. Just prior to the 2005 Israeli incursion into Lebanon, net Lebanese approval of Hezbollah stood at about 25%. Israel hoped Hezzbollah would be blamed by Lebanese for causing Israel to invade. And instead, after Israel invaded, Lebanese net approval of Hezzbollah tripled to 75%. And now Hezzbollah even has a recognized part in Lebanese government.

 

[Atreus21]

Only one of those sides ritually punishes women for the crime of being female. Only one of those sides decided that it was the fault of people halfway around the world, most of whom weren't born in 1948, much less care either way, and slaughtered 3,000 of them. Only one side specifically targets women, children and other civilians in their attacks, then shields themselves with their own women & children to get the bleeding heart support when the media spreads the story.

It seems pretty clear who the bad guys are.

This.

 

[nageov3t]

On 12 July 2006, in an incident known as Zar'it-Shtula incident, the Hezbollah initiated diversionary rocket attacks on Israeli military positions near the coast and near the Israeli border village of Zar'it,[10] while another Hezbollah group crossed from Lebanon into Israel and ambushed two Israeli Army vehicles, killing three Israeli soldiers and seizing two.[62][63]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Lebanese_conflict#2006_Lebanon_War


Lemon, in your seemingly infinite wisdom, how do you propose Israel should have responded to being attacked?

 

[Nemesis 1]

The can go back where they came from.

Thats exactly what they did in 1947. That got us to were we are today . I know arab history well. There as bad as the Britts.

 

[Noobtastic]

only one of those sides ritually punishes women for the crime of being female. Only one of those sides decided that it was the fault of people halfway around the world, most of whom weren't born in 1948, much less care either way, and slaughtered 3,000 of them. Only one side specifically targets women, children and other civilians in their attacks, then shields themselves with their own women & children to get the bleeding heart support when the media spreads the story.

It seems pretty clear who the bad guys are.

qft.

 

[The Green Bean]

Don't you have more pressing concerns in your own backyard? You Paks make stabbing and buggering each other in the back look like a national sport.

This thread is not about Pakistan. However, I would support any similar move carried out by us (sending aid to Palestine backed by Naval vessels)

 

[The Green Bean]

so... they can go back to Israel?

From Wiki

In the early years of the state, the Labor Zionist movement led by Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion dominated Israeli politics.[82][83] These years were marked by an influx of Holocaust survivors and Jews from Arab lands, many of whom faced persecution in their original countries.[84] Consequently, the population of Israel rose from 800,000 to two million between 1948 and 1958.[85] Most arrived as refugees with no possessions and were housed in temporary camps known as ma'abarot; by 1952, over 200,000 immigrants were living in these tent cities.[86] The need to solve the crisis led Ben-Gurion to sign a reparations agreement with West Germany that triggered mass protests by Jews angered at the idea of Israel accepting financial compensation from Germany for the Holocaust.[87]

 

[Red Dawn]

This thread is not about Pakistan. However, I would support any similar move carried out by us (sending aid to Palestine backed by Naval vessels)

You guys have a Navy? Oh yeah, shit floats.

 

[The Green Bean]

You guys have a Navy? Oh yeah, shit floats.

We even have a few nuclear armed subs so you better be careful

 

[Jhhnn]

Its not israel's fault that unstable opposing parties rule the gaza strip and west bank.

Each cant grant a fully brokered deal that will agree with the other.

The first statement isn't true at all. Israel and the US armed and encouraged Fatah to attempt a coup against the democratically elected Hamas govt. Fatah's strength has always been in the west bank, Hamas' in Gaza. They split the Pals quite intentionally, reinforced it with a lockdown of Gaza.

The second statement is true, and is exactly what the Israelis set out to create- another excuse for non-negotiation and non-settlement wrt the Pals...

The american public being easily manipulated by Israeli propaganda is nothing new- it's something they count on...

 

[MotF Bane]

We even have a few nuclear armed subs so you better be careful

Two diesel attack submarines that can at best carry anti-shipping missiles, which may or may not be able to be equipped with nuclear warheads.

 

[K1052]

This thread is not about Pakistan. However, I would support any similar move carried out by us (sending aid to Palestine backed by Naval vessels)

So after Israel sinks the mighty Pakistani and Iranian navies what then?