iPad mini 2 with Retina display may not ship in October

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Doesn't iSuppli have a history of pretty bad predictions? I think someone once accused them of just making crap up to spam link-bait because their record was so bad.
 

Trombe

Senior member
Jun 30, 2007
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I don't even get how this is possible at this point, the new Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HDX have practically the same screen density (~323 for these, ~324 for an iPad mini Retina), and one of them has been out for months.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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I wouldn't be completely shocked if the iPad mini 2 doesn't even get Retina.

That said, I would hope that it does, since the A6/A6X seems ripe for the iPad mini 2, and there are even supposed part leaks for a gold iPad mini 2 with fingerprint sensor.

http://m.donews.com/201309/1952261.shtm

91752680.jpg.450.jpg


That said, A6/A6X doesn't make sense in that context, since I don't think it has the walled fingerprint data repository, nor does it have the built-in encryption acceleration, both of which would be likely needed for a fingerprint sensor.

So maybe the iPad mini 2 would have downclocked A7 or A7X? Or else it just won't get a fingerprint sensor.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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I would. They had a year to figure it out how to do it.
They already know how to do it. Hell, they could have done it for the original iPad mini. They just didn't think it made sense at the time. May as well milk the public for non-Retina, esp. during a time when the non-Retina iPad 2 (non-mini) was still for sale.

However, I too am hopeful for a Retina iPad mini 2, and that's easier to implement CPU-wise since both the A6 line and the A7 line support Retina.

Probably the harder part to implement is the fingerprint sensor, and that may require A7.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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They already know how to do it. Hell, they could have done it for the original iPad mini. They just didn't think it made sense at the time.

Uh, the Mini only exists because of the sales of the 7in Kindles and N7s. The Mini was an afterthought knee jerk reaction from Apple, nothing more. Thats why its just an iPad 2 in a smaller chassis.

The Mini 2 will almost certainly be a retina-grade display.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
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I think macrumors said that that gold iPad mini is possibly a fake.

I don't think the mini 2 will have an A7, so that rules out Touch ID.

My prediction is this:
Mini 2 will have A6 retina, no touch ID.

iPad 5 will have A7X and touch ID.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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Besides artificial segmentation? Would it make sense for apple to use an a7 for the ipad mini instead of an a6x if they do choose to go retina with the ipad mini? It appears the a7 beats the a6x in most tests.

A6 Samsung 32 nm process. It has a die with an area of 97 mm2 (Iphone 5 processor)
A6X Samsung 32 nm process. It has a die with an area of 123 mm2 (Ipad 4 processor)
A7 Samsung 28 nm process. It has a die with an area of 102 mm2 (Iphone 5s processor.)

I am assuming the Apple Ipad Retina will some variant of the A7 which will probably get the name A7X

3304.5 Iphone 5s GL Benchmark 2.7 Fill Test (offscreen 1080p)
2068.1 Ipad4 GL Benchmark 2.7 Fill Test (offscreen 1080p)

68.20 Iphone 5s GL Benchmark 2.7 Triangle Throughput (offscreen 1080p)
128.5 Ipad4 GL Benchmark 2.7 Triangle Throughput (offscreen 1080p)

25.0 Iphone 5s GLBenchmark 2.7 T-Rex HD (offscreen 1080p)
16.0 Ipad4 GLBenchmark 2.7 T-Rex HD (offscreen 1080p)

57.0 Iphone 5s GLBenchmark 2.7 Egypt HD (offscreen 1080p)
50.0 Ipad4 GLBenchmark 2.7 Egypt HD (offscreen 1080p)
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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Wouldn't Apple rather not cannibalize the regular iPad's (5) sales? Sucks if you have been waiting for an iPad mini w/ higher res, but lots of product launches start with the top dogs for precisely that reason.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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Wouldn't Apple rather not cannibalize the regular iPad's (5) sales?
That's why it makes sense for the iPad to get A7 and possibly even TouchID. The mini would get neither. At most it'd get Retina, but I'm not 100% sure of that yet.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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I think macrumors said that that gold iPad mini is possibly a fake.

I don't think the mini 2 will have an A7, so that rules out Touch ID.

My prediction is this:
Mini 2 will have A6 retina, no touch ID.

iPad 5 will have A7X and touch ID.

I don't think an A6 retina in an ipad mini makes any sense since it's not powerful enough for the display. A retina iPad mini should have A6X, A7 or A7X. A6X with a half node die shrink (32nm to 28nm) would be sensible.

A non retina iPad mini with A7 and the fingerprint reader makes sense too.
----

I've been using my wife's ipad mini a bit lately and IMO it's a total dog performance wise compared to the ipad 4. iOS 7 emphasizes the difference in power between the twom
 

Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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Wouldn't Apple rather not cannibalize the regular iPad's (5) sales? Sucks if you have been waiting for an iPad mini w/ higher res, but lots of product launches start with the top dogs for precisely that reason.

That is called artificial segmentation. I purposefully said besides that ;)
 
Feb 19, 2001
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They already know how to do it. Hell, they could have done it for the original iPad mini. They just didn't think it made sense at the time. May as well milk the public for non-Retina, esp. during a time when the non-Retina iPad 2 (non-mini) was still for sale.

However, I too am hopeful for a Retina iPad mini 2, and that's easier to implement CPU-wise since both the A6 line and the A7 line support Retina.

Probably the harder part to implement is the fingerprint sensor, and that may require A7.
I agree regarding the retina for iPad Mini 2.

1) They don't want to cannibalize sales from the iPad 5.

2) How do they retina-ize the iPad Mini/iPad 2? It's gonna be the same resolution as the iPad 4/5? Maybe it could be a shrunk iPad 4. But how do they differentiate the iPad 5 from the Mini 2? Fingerprint scanner? Better camera (less important than on an iPhone)?

3) They can't do something in between doubling the resolution and staying at 1024x768 either. Maybe 1600x1200 would be nice.

4) Since everyone thinks Apple is stagnating, I highly doubt they would go for something that knocks it out of the park compared to the Nexus 7. I could be wrong though. Apple was awfully aggressive with its iPad 1 and 2 in terms of pricing despite having almost no competition. It's quite interesting how Apple was rather innovative in its early iPhone days even though Android posed little threat.

Edit: Who knows, maybe Apple will have a good competitor. That's good for the industry anyway because we want competition.
 
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Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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That is called artificial segmentation. I purposefully said besides that ;)

Part availability.

They just released their new iPhone and orders are already backed up and probably will be for at least another month. If there are any supply constraints on how many A7's are available, they would probably want to limit the number of devices that use the A7.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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I agree regarding the retina for iPad Mini 2.

1) They don't want to cannibalize sales from the iPad 5.

If they can avoid doing that, they would like to, but I think they've realized that it's better to cannibalize your own sales than to have someone else do it.

2) How do they retina-ize the iPad Mini/iPad 2? It's gonna be the same resolution as the iPad 4/5? Maybe it could be a shrunk iPad 4. But how do they differentiate the iPad 5 from the Mini 2? Fingerprint scanner? Better camera (less important than on an iPhone)?

One is a 10" tablet, the other is an 8" tablet. That's really all the differentiation that they need. I would imagine that the iPad (10") will have nicer hardware (better SoC, better camera, etc.) than the mini, but size is enough of a differentiating factor.

3) They can't do something in between doubling the resolution and staying at 1024x768 either. Maybe 1600x1200 would be nice.

They'll do it the same way that they did retina every other time: double the resolution and quadruple the pixel count. A retina iPad mini would have the same resolution as the iPhone, so it's not exactly difficult for them to procure screens.

4) Since everyone thinks Apple is stagnating, I highly doubt they would go for something that knocks it out of the park compared to the Nexus 7. I could be wrong though. Apple was awfully aggressive with its iPad 1 and 2 in terms of pricing despite having almost no competition. It's quite interesting how Apple was rather innovative in its early iPhone days even though Android posed little threat.

In the tablet space, they still don't have a lot of competition. Android on tablets is still not as good as it is on phones, and even though the OS itself is worlds better than it was two years ago, the apps are still seriously lacking and you still run into several that are just up-scaled versions of something designed for a phone.

Personally, I'd like to see them make something like Microsoft's Touch Cover, but I doubt that they will. The only other thing that they could really do to wow me would be to have some kind of hybrid display that has both an e-ink and LCD mode. Otherwise the best thing that they can do is improve their cloud offerings, which is one important area where they're clearly lagging behind.

Beyond that, there isn't much that they can add that most people would get excited about. It's just going to be smaller, lighter, more efficient, and slightly better in other ways from here on out.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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If they ship a Retina Mini, there would be no reason to pay $170 more for a full size iPad.

A 7"-8" form factor is the perfect balance between portability and screen size, and artificial segmentation be damned, nobody will care enough about A6X vs. A7X or that hokey Touch ID to buy the 10" version.

Mark my words.

OTOH, how could they not ship a Retina Mini? The 2013 Nexus 7 and Kindle HDX are delivering stellar Retina-killing screens at sub-$300 prices.
 
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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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My wife would buy a 10" iPad Retina over an 8" iPad mini Retina. I'd probably go with the mini but I do admit that having a bigger screen for a tablet is nice too. (We use an iPad 2 and a Nexus 7 (2012) in the house.)

Remember, Apple STILL sells lots of 10" iPad 2 non-Retinas. It's never been discontinued.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

BTW, there's nothing stopping Apple from increasing the price on an iPad mini Retina, say to US$349.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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If they ship a Retina Mini, there would be no reason to pay $170 more for a full size iPad.

I think there would be and I prefer having the larger screen size, but I agree that $170 for nothing other than a larger screen is asking too much.

A 7"-8" form factor is the perfect balance between portability and screen size, and artificial segmentation be damned, nobody will care enough about A6X vs. A7X or that hokey Touch ID to buy the 10" version.

I imagine that the iPad will have the following advantages over the iPad mini:

  • Larger Screen (That's a given, but the quality might be better as well)
  • More Storage (iPad would start at 16-32GB, vs. the mini starting at 8-16GB)
  • Better SoC (A7 vs A6X)
  • Touch ID (Not a big deal in my book, but I imagine Apple will talk about it in their commercials so some people will "have to have it")
  • More RAM (This seems the least likely to me, but still a possibility)
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
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I bet the full size iPad will have A7X and touch ID over the iPad mini to create separation. It's going to be tough deciding between the two.
 

chin311

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
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If the Mini doesn't get retina I'll def skip upgrading my Mini.

If anything might get the iPad 5 & sell the Mini. I like the Mini for its form factor but if they trim down those crazy bezels on the normal iPad I might bite.
 

Puddle Jumper

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Nov 4, 2009
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Given the competition the Mini has to get a serious upgrade that includes Retina. As it is now the Mini is by far the least competitive product Apple makes.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
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Poor Mini will be held back because of its bigger siblings. A shame because I think it's a great form factor for a tablet.
 

Silenus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2008
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Given the competition the Mini has to get a serious upgrade that includes Retina. As it is now the Mini is by far the least competitive product Apple makes.

I know someone who is not at all invested in the Apple ecosystem who just (happily) got the mini. When they told me I had to choke back what I was going to say....because TO ME of course...how can you even consider it when the 2013 Nexus 7 exists at $100 less. Just goes to show the power of that brand I guess. To be fair though...they do have plenty of tablet optimized apps..and games. And since she is going to use a lot for games, and her friends will almost all have iphones....it probably was the best (inevitable?) choice.
 
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Feb 19, 2001
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If they ship a Retina Mini, there would be no reason to pay $170 more for a full size iPad.

To me there's still a huge difference between a 7" tablet and a 10" tablet for viewing pleasure. I watched a whole season of Homeland on my Nexus 7 and it was meh at best. While it was easy to hold, I felt like the experience was limited with its small screen. On the Nexus 10, it felt like a laptop. I was definitely more immersed in the experience.

The N7 looks great on paper, but everytime I see it in person, it just feels too small. I prefer picking up the Nexus 10 in the morning to check a few emails and read Anandtech forums for these nonsensical debates :)