iPad and HP Slate

[theeedude]

It still wouldn't cut it as sole home computing device, which is what I want, and I think these Android slates have a good shot at it without giving anything up in portability and at a similar price.
- VNC on 1080p display plugged into HDMI with USB mouse/keyboard plugged in is actually something I can do real work on.
- Full HD playback with USB HD, I can use it as HTPC.
- Full internet support including Flash & Java, no need to go to a laptop to render sites iPad can't. Also, plugged into 1080p display, can do it on a bigger screen.
- Webcam for video chat with family.
I am now in a very decluttering mode, so I would want something to actually replace my home laptop, not something in addition to it.

 

[QueBert]

Saying a device will be awesome after you jailbreak it does not really show quality in the walled garden design. It shows it's flaw.

I said it will be even better, devices typically get better once hacked. Why do people root Android? Oh, i forgot it's not an Apple device so that's not a check mark against it. If it never gets jailbroken it will still be an awesome device in my eyes.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I'd love to hear about aaaaaaaaaaall the things a Netbook can do that an iPhone/iPad can't

- Multitask
- Sit on a desk and still be watchable without a stand
- Use any USB device
- External Storage
- Run standard OS apps
- Webcam
- Read SD cards
- Change batteries
- Charge USB devices from it's battery
- etc

 

[QueBert]

- Multitask
- Sit on a desk and still be watchable without a stand
- Use any USB device
- External Storage
- Run standard OS apps
- Webcam
- Read SD cards
- Change batteries
- Charge USB devices from it's battery
- etc

1. fair enough
2. fair enough
3. fair enough
4. I can use my iPhone as external storage, I take a snap shot of the screen and it creates a folder that's readable by Explorer, I can drag and drop shit in it till my hearts content. Not sure if this works the same for the iPad, but I don't see why it wouldn't.
5. But it can run apps, I guess I could use the same argument to show how netbooks suck because they won't run Mac software? My WM 6.1 phone won't run RIM apps, but I don't consider that a strike, because it runs it's own shit. A netbook isn't going to run shit from the App store...
6. fair enough
7. fair enough
8. I don't know a single person who changes batteries, I suppose this would be useful for the 1% of the population who drains a battery and want to throw in a spare. My 1st gen Touch still has the original battery. I bought it a week after they came out. And the batteries still holding a charge fine. Don't think this applies at all to netbooks though, I mean who carries a spare netbook battery with them? I think for every 1,000 people who bitch about this, 1 (or less) actually have a spare battery.
9. fair enough

and for everything a netbook does an iPad doesn't, the same could be said in reverse. I'll agree the Netbook is more powerful but not to this retardly exaggerated magnitude people on here are making it out to be. A netbook will also be more powerful than an Android tablet when they finally come out. But for 95% of the shit the Android tablet will perform close to on par.

 

[speg]

VNC on 1080p display plugged into HDMI with USB mouse/keyboard plugged in is actually something I can do real work on.

Oh come on, if you're going to be plugging in all that stuff why are you using a tablet device at all? If you want to do real work, sit down at a desk. That sounds like the perfect job for a laptop.

A tablet is going to be an accessory device that is used casually around the house for checking email, surfing the web, etc.

 

[AstroManLuca]

A tablet is going to be an accessory device that is used casually around the house for checking email, surfing the web, etc.

That's what it seems like to me. I sometimes end up using my phone at home because my girlfriend is takes my desktop instead of using her own laptop. I guess I don't blame her; I wouldn't want to use her laptop either. And given the choice, I'd rather just use the phone if all I'm doing is killing time for a few minutes. Then again, her laptop is large and bulky and the battery is almost dead, so it's not as convenient as if I had a small laptop or a netbook.

She'd probably enjoy using a tablet (it might even get her to stop using my computer), but she needs whatever computer she has to be able to do 3D drafting.

And I'd probably enjoy a tablet for those situations too, but they're too rare for it to be worth it. Furthermore, since I already have a nice phone, there's really no need since I have mobile browsing covered. Yeah, an iPad would be much better for use at home where portability is not necessary, but that's not enough for it to be worth $500 to me. Probably not even worth $200 to me. I have a job and I am gone most of the time, and when I'm at home there's no reason I can't just quickly walk over to my computer to look something up or pull out my phone and use it instead.

The iPad (and all of its direct competitors) fall between a laptop and a phone in terms of portability, but they fall short of offering functionality that is significantly above what a phone offers. There are probably about 15 minutes a day when having a tablet would be a significant improvement over what I normally use.

 

[theeedude]

Oh come on, if you're going to be plugging in all that stuff why are you using a tablet device at all? If you want to do real work, sit down at a desk. That sounds like the perfect job for a laptop.

I am not going to be plugging it in all the time, most of the time I am fine in tablet mode surfing the web, playing Flash, etc. But sometime I would want to output to a larger display and plug in USB accessories, for work or maybe if I have friends over and I want to play an HD movie I have on my tablet for them. Having a 1080p HDMI and USB port already built in sure beats buying a second device just for this use.

A tablet is going to be an accessory device that is used casually around the house for checking email, surfing the web, etc.

That is iPad, better tablets will let you do all that and much more. They are perfectly capable of being sole computing devices for casual home users. Of course Apple would rather sell you a PowerBook, an Apple TV, an iPad, etc, so it's in their interest to perpetuate this neutered device as a secondary accessory. But it doesn't have to be if done properly.

 

[roguerower]

I'm looking forward to the Windows Courier (please dear god let it exist). Something like that would be a great machine. I would love to have a machine that I could take out on the jobsite when doing a QC walkthrough and make notes on the plans to indicate defective items, or write something down and have it since w/ google documents, or just a general overall tablet device that works.

 

[TheStu]

I am not going to be plugging it in all the time, most of the time I am fine in tablet mode surfing the web, playing Flash, etc. But sometime I would want to output to a larger display and plug in USB accessories, for work or maybe if I have friends over and I want to play an HD movie I have on my tablet for them. Having a 1080p HDMI and USB port already built in sure beats buying a second device just for this use.

That is iPad, better tablets will let you do all that and much more. They are perfectly capable of being sole computing devices for casual home users. Of course Apple would rather sell you a PowerBook, an Apple TV, an iPad, etc, so it's in their interest to perpetuate this neutered device as a secondary accessory. But it doesn't have to be if done properly.

You keep bringing up Flash, and that is fine, it is a weakness of Apple's devices (even full powered systems have trouble with it, a result of the rift between the powers), but in all honesty, what are you doing online that requires this much Flash?

Flash games: You can get plenty of free or cheap games on the App Store, and I want you to imagine playing all those Flash games with just your mouse, most of them are written for it.

Flash Ads: WooHoo, no more Flash Ads!

YouTube, Vimeo, et al: More and more of them are adding HTML5 playback which the iPhone/iPad can do, no problem. I realize that not all of them are, but the big players are, and that is where the bulk of watching takes place.

All Flash websites: Are generally trash to begin with, and you can often find the information you need (it is usually restaurants that use all Flash) elsewhere.

I am not trying to convince you. You had your mind made up long before the iPad went on sale that you weren't going to get one. And that is fine, I already made up my mind that I am not going to buy the non-existent Lenovo tablet thingy, I will almost certainly never buy anything from Alienware, or a 17" laptop, or a Wii. But, out of curiosity, just how much would your life have to change to accommodate a Flash free existence? I would imagine not much. I do it on OS X for the most part. AdBlock+ClickToFlash.

 

[theeedude]

You keep bringing up Flash, and that is fine, it is a weakness of Apple's devices (even full powered systems have trouble with it, a result of the rift between the powers), but in all honesty, what are you doing online that requires this much Flash?

Flash games: You can get plenty of free or cheap games on the App Store, and I want you to imagine playing all those Flash games with just your mouse, most of them are written for it.

Flash Ads: WooHoo, no more Flash Ads!

YouTube, Vimeo, et al: More and more of them are adding HTML5 playback which the iPhone/iPad can do, no problem. I realize that not all of them are, but the big players are, and that is where the bulk of watching takes place.

All Flash websites: Are generally trash to begin with, and you can often find the information you need (it is usually restaurants that use all Flash) elsewhere.

I am not trying to convince you. You had your mind made up long before the iPad went on sale that you weren't going to get one. And that is fine, I already made up my mind that I am not going to buy the non-existent Lenovo tablet thingy, I will almost certainly never buy anything from Alienware, or a 17" laptop, or a Wii. But, out of curiosity, just how much would your life have to change to accommodate a Flash free existence? I would imagine not much. I do it on OS X for the most part. AdBlock+ClickToFlash.

Why would I want to change my life to accommodate a device? I buy device to fit into my life, not the other way around.
I was reading http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2065242
It has a link to a nice Flash site, which I certainly don't consider trash at all.
Is it too much to ask that a $500 tablet be able to render it? This tablet is mainly a web browsing machine, they need to be able to render the web as it is now, not as Steve Jobs wants it to be. Is your idea that when someone is sitting on the couch browsing the web and they hit a page that uses Flash, then instead of the tablet just rendering it, the best thing is for them to do is get off the couch, turn on their computer, view the website, then go back to the couch? That doesn't seem very appealing to me. If I am going to go through this hassle, I'd rather just take my laptop to the couch and use it.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Why would I want to change my life to accommodate a device? I buy device to fit into my life, not the other way around.
I was reading http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2065242
It has a link to a nice Flash site, which I certainly don't consider trash at all.
Is it too much to ask that a $500 tablet be able to render it? This tablet is mainly a web browsing machine, they need to be able to render the web as it is now, not as Steve Jobs wants it to be. Is your idea that when someone is sitting on the couch browsing the web and they hit a page that uses Flash, then instead of the tablet just rendering it, the best thing is for them to do is get off the couch, turn on their computer, view the website, then go back to the couch? That doesn't seem very appealing to me. If I am going to go through this hassle, I'd rather just take my laptop to the couch and use it.

Agreed; at the same time, I see Apple fans talking up certain other capabilities the iPad has despite their not being especially useful.

One that I have seen tons of is Netflix streaming, and video playback in general. You get 12 hours of battery life even while playing videos. You can watch Netflix streaming. You can surf (some of) the internet. You can make presentations (but only at 1024x768 with no ability to preserve the aspect ratio).

Apple fans ask what Apple critics are doing that they need Flash so badly. But as a critic, I ask Apple fans, what are you doing that you watch so many bad movies on Netflix streaming? Do you just sit and watch videos all day long? And other than being perhaps more comfortable to use and having better battery life, does the iPad offer any advantages compared to a laptop?

I just don't see the iPad as being useful as anything except a geek toy.

 

[theeedude]

I am not sure it's more comfortable than laptop for Netflix. At least if you watch Netflix on a laptop you can leave it on table or a counter and have your hands free to have a drink or eat. With iPad, you have to sit there and hold this thing in front of you for 2 hours while you watch a movie. Not only can't it multitask, but it won't let you either 🙂 I think tablets are going to be good for interactive things like Flash apps, and maybe watching an occasional youtube clip, but watching full length movies on one sounds very uncomfortable, unless you happen to have an HDMI output with a TV to plug into it.

 

[TheStu]

Why would I want to change my life to accommodate a device? I buy device to fit into my life, not the other way around.
I was reading http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2065242
It has a link to a nice Flash site, which I certainly don't consider trash at all.
Is it too much to ask that a $500 tablet be able to render it? This tablet is mainly a web browsing machine, they need to be able to render the web as it is now, not as Steve Jobs wants it to be. Is your idea that when someone is sitting on the couch browsing the web and they hit a page that uses Flash, then instead of the tablet just rendering it, the best thing is for them to do is get off the couch, turn on their computer, view the website, then go back to the couch? That doesn't seem very appealing to me. If I am going to go through this hassle, I'd rather just take my laptop to the couch and use it.

I was asking rhetorically if you really used Flash so much in your daily life that the absence of it would really ruin things for you.

As for that site, yes, the cars are pretty, once I could actually see them. After waiting a minute for the entry to load, and then selecting my country, and then waiting for the next page to load, and then waiting for the images to load... That is why Flash is trashy. Not because it looks bad, that site was visually appealing, but because it is the most wide spread example of software gone bad. If I have a 10Mb/s connection, a 3.25GHz dual core, and 4GB of RAM, I really shouldn't be waiting for a few menus and 6 thumbnails to load should I?

My opinion is that Flash is a plague upon the web, one that was adopted very quickly and easily, and although there are some good things done with it, most of those same things can be done using non-flash technologies. I look forward to when Flash's grip on teh web starts to weaken (it already has, HTML5 on YouTube and Vimeo demonstrates this) and with IE9 moving more toward standards compliance, hopefully more web devs will start changing things around, much like how with the introduction of Firefox, fewer and fewer sites used proprietary ActiveX stuff.

The fact that the iPhone and iPod Touch (and yes, Android phones as well) are changing to web to a place that doesn't need Flash is evidence that it isn't an irreplaceable technology.

And to say that the entire thing is Steve Jobs' will, is just pig-headed. The best theory that I have heard regarding the lack of Flash on the iPhone (in addition to it running like crap and sucking down battery like nobody's business) is that Apple likes control (not Steve Jobs, Apple), and by not having Flash, they don't have a large glaring security hole, one that they cannot patch. They don't have a large glaring performance problem, one that they cannot patch. They don't have a large glaring power/heat problem, one that they cannot patch. You see what I am getting at? That almost certainly part of the reason that Apple doesn't allow Flash on the iPhone has less to do with not letting you play games or watch teh pr0nzors, and more to do with not letting in something that would get fairly low level hardware access, that they cannot control in the event that things go wrong. Apple is not going to put something onto the iPhone or iPad that would be that tied into the OS unless they knew that they could update it themselves.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

the hp slate sounds totally gay. its nothing but a netbook without a keyboard so it will be way more sluggish than an ipad and it will have the usual 1024x600 microscreen. and on top of that they want $800 for it.

 

[theeedude]

Well, if Apple can't do Flash robustly and power efficiently, then too bad, so sad, don't really care what their reasoning is or who made the call on this. I will get a device that can. I can always block Flash myself if I don't want to use it.
If there is no Flash in a couple years, maybe I'll reevaluate my decision, but for now iPad is deficient when it comes to web experience, and for a device whose primary use is web browsing, that's a big problem.

 

[slackerinabox]

One thing that's remarkable about the iPad is the build quality - it's rock solid, especially compared to your average netbook. It feels almost like a brick. Well, a flat, oversized brick. I worry about future slates being plasticy and lugging around a .5 inch slab of plastic seems like a recipe for disaster.

I think the iPad and tablet-atoms serve a very particular niche, and kudos to apple for making the niche seem far larger than it is. My hope is that the kindle 3 or 4 develops into an tablet like environment, with Qi's lcd/e-ink technology.. Or maybe motorola will put out a droid tablet running android - the droid's build quality is awesome.

 

[TheStu]

Well, if Apple can't do Flash robustly and power efficiently, then too bad, so sad, don't really care what their reasoning is or who made the call on this. I will get a device that can. I can always block Flash myself if I don't want to use it.
If there is no Flash in a couple years, maybe I'll reevaluate my decision, but for now iPad is deficient when it comes to web experience, and for a device whose primary use is web browsing, that's a big problem.

When you say Apple, are you referring to the iPhone or OS X? Also, what is your current cell phone? Is it a smart phone? Can it run Flash? Does running Flash on there drain the battery and/or run dog slow? From what I have read concerning Flash on other devices, it is usually a pretty terrible thing.

Furthermore, my understanding of the current netbook market is that unless a person has Ion in their netbook, then HD Flash is out of the question, and a standard YouTube video is not exactly a lovely situation. Maybe I am, and most of the reviews I have read are, wrong, that is always possible. But, if I am correct then most arguments regarding the iPad lacking Flash and netbooks not can be countered with this 'who cares, it sucks on your netbook anyway'.

Again, I am not trying to convince you, at this point I am just having fun with the argument 🙂

 

[theeedude]

When you say Apple, are you referring to the iPhone or OS X? Also, what is your current cell phone? Is it a smart phone? Can it run Flash? Does running Flash on there drain the battery and/or run dog slow? From what I have read concerning Flash on other devices, it is usually a pretty terrible thing.

Furthermore, my understanding of the current netbook market is that unless a person has Ion in their netbook, then HD Flash is out of the question, and a standard YouTube video is not exactly a lovely situation. Maybe I am, and most of the reviews I have read are, wrong, that is always possible. But, if I am correct then most arguments regarding the iPad lacking Flash and netbooks not can be countered with this 'who cares, it sucks on your netbook anyway'.

Again, I am not trying to convince you, at this point I am just having fun with the argument 🙂

I am not buying a tablet yet, I am talking about ARM based Android devices like Adam that are coming out this summer, not current Atom devices which I already said are evolutionary dead ends. These devices will have hardware accelerated HD Flash and 1080p playback but with cell-phone level power consumption. I want one of those to replace the laptop that I currently use at home. Not augment, replace completely. I don't play games, so if I can get full video and web experience with Flash and everything, I don't need a home laptop.

 

[TheStu]

I am not buying a tablet yet, I am talking about ARM based Android devices like Adam that are coming out this summer, not current Atom devices which I already said are evolutionary dead ends. These devices will have hardware accelerated HD Flash and 1080p playback but with cell-phone level power consumption. I want one of those to replace the laptop that I currently use at home. Not augment, replace completely. I don't play games, so if I can get full video and web experience with Flash and everything, I don't need a home laptop.

Well, since the Adam isn't released yet (and last I heard, had problems with its Tegra 2 chipset) then we can only speculate on its performance and whether or not it can replace your laptop.

But if it is running Android then it is not much better than the iPad when it comes to not being able to run desktop software, and in many cases could be worse. The large existing developer network that Apple has created with the App Store means there will (for the near future) be a surplus of apps availabe for Apple than for Android.

Plus, what version of Android will it run, will it be updateable? Will software created for older, other versions work on the Adam? That is one of my irritations with Android, the fragmentation.

 

[TheWart]

Here is an interesting account of a sysadmin guy who uses the iPad in lieu of his laptop

http://tugrik.livejournal.com/834583.html

 

[theeedude]

I don't really care about apps or desktop software, I mainly just use the web browser on my laptop. I do play some Flash games here and there, but not PC games. But it does need to be able to render all of the internet. Only apps I want are:

- Bittorrent client.
- Skype
- Google talk
- Acrobat
- VPN
- VNC

Android and new ARM chips are a very capable platform, of course it is possible that these other devices will disappoint, in which case I will just hold on to my laptop until they get their act together. But I can definitely see that iPad is not going to cut it for me, Apple is simply being too inflexible, excluding Flash is a boneheaded move that will keep a lot of people away, and it will come up in ALL of these iPad vs * discussions.

 

[UR2NVME]

what is better the iPad or the Archos 9.

I have seen mixed reviews.

 

[pm]

I thought this article was interesting.

HP preps its would-be iPad killer, the Slate

As far as this discussion goes, I think tablets are also particularly useful when travelling or commuting. Laptops are more using for doing work and creating "content" but a tablet could be more convienent for viewing content. If I have to watch a movie in a cramped economy airline seat, I'd rather watch it on a tablet than a laptop. I'd rather watch it on an iPhone than a laptop - I've tried both and laptops are just too cramped. If we are going on a car trip and I want to keep the kids entertained, I'd rather they play with a tablet than my laptop with all my work on it and a netbook is too complex for my small children to understand but they seem to know exactly how to run the games on my iPhone..

I can understand people who are not impressed with tablets and I understand their opinion... but I see their place in the eco-system and can think of some uses for a tablet... if they are cheap enough.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

The #1 problem with the iPad:

Doesn't support streaming porn.

No Spankwire, TnAFlix, Empflix, YouPorn, RedTube, etc.

Bah...

 

[QueBert]

Why would I want to change my life to accommodate a device? I buy device to fit into my life, not the other way around.
I was reading http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2065242
It has a link to a nice Flash site, which I certainly don't consider trash at all.
Is it too much to ask that a $500 tablet be able to render it? This tablet is mainly a web browsing machine, they need to be able to render the web as it is now, not as Steve Jobs wants it to be. Is your idea that when someone is sitting on the couch browsing the web and they hit a page that uses Flash, then instead of the tablet just rendering it, the best thing is for them to do is get off the couch, turn on their computer, view the website, then go back to the couch? That doesn't seem very appealing to me. If I am going to go through this hassle, I'd rather just take my laptop to the couch and use it.

This device is already a success, and headed to more sales and undoubtedly a 2nd generation model. Which could also be a success, I love that a device that could potential turn out to be the next evolution from a phone towards a netbook doesn't support Flash. This can only help motivate companies to make the move to HTML5. The next version of Flash will be compatible with the iPhone for gaming. Adobe already showcased a Mario Kart type game made in CS5 playing on an iPhone. For the rest of the content HTML5 is the way of the future. Apple's embracing the future, somebody has to lay the ground work to get people away from Flash.