Interesting Slate article on the Republicans' continuing descent into self parody

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Fern
Republicans now endorse the judicial nominee filibuster!

Yes, that's one way to look at it.

The other is:

Dems who insisted upon the validity of the filibuster while in the minority now complain bitterly about it when in the majority. Hypocrisy?

Jeesh, they've got 58 seats (with 59 likely upon Franken being seated) in Congress and they can't pick up 2 'R votes' with the likes of Olympia Snowe, Collins and Specter etc?

Just how non-mainstream are these nominees?

With such a huge majority, any vote is merely ceremonial, thus the only vote Repub get in a filibuster. And they can only afford to lose 1 of their votes or they can't even do that. (and they can't even afford to lose even 1 vote if Fraken is seated)

I find it really hard to believe Obama can't nominate someone who is acceptible to at least 2 Repubs.

It sure can't be over abortion, several Repub Senators are pro-choice.

So what's the complaint with these nominees? Does anybody know?

Otherwise, not a big deal IMO; the Dems will soon have 59 votes anyway.

Fern

Except I see no evidence of the Democrats trying to remove the ability of the GOP to filibuster. Do you have any support for that? If not, then the two sides are not even remotely equal.

Nominees? Did you read the article? He's only nominated one so far. As for the extremity of their opinions, that doesn't matter. The Democrats confirmed the vast, vast majority of GWB's judicial appointments, only filibustering those they found way out in right field. The Republicans declared that was unconstitutional anyway, and so the fundamental point isn't changed at all.

The point of all this is not in terms of the Republicans being able to thwart Obama's agenda, they are far too weakened at this point to do much of that, it's to laugh at them for their unabashed, absolutely naked hypocrisy on an issue they deemed so important that they were willing to grind government to a halt in the past.

Fern seems to be unaware of the radical behavior of the Republicans, and of their record of huge hypocris and abuse of power on these matters.

For a couple of examples, you don't see him aware of the history when the Republicans forced President Clinton to submit every planned recess nominee in advance in writing to them so they could better organize opposition, by threatening to block *every nominee* he made as blackmail until he did. It worked. Of course, they abandon the practice immediately when Bush took office (I think that's the best phrase for Bush - 'took' office).

For another example, the Repuvlicans ended the many decades-old practice under both parties to let a state's Senators block a nominee if both Senators from the state made the request, by lowering the standard to only one Senator, for those states who only had one Repblican Senator. And as soon as they had the Senate under Bush - they ended that practice, too.

So Fern is just posting here not well informed, it seems, with a wide-eyed 'what's the problem' tone.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: chess9
Anyway, one more election cycle and the filibuster may well be useless. Right now we can rely on the Republicans to say and do something stupid about every 30 seconds. Why should anyone worry? I'll bet Reid isn't.

-Robert

Unfortunately, it may go the other way - normally, it does, and we already - unfortunately - see Republicans polling ahead of Dems for Congreee for the first time in years.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Fern
Republicans now endorse the judicial nominee filibuster!

Yes, that's one way to look at it.

The other is:

Dems who insisted upon the validity of the filibuster while in the minority now complain bitterly about it when in the majority. Hypocrisy?

Jeesh, they've got 58 seats (with 59 likely upon Franken being seated) in Congress and they can't pick up 2 'R votes' with the likes of Olympia Snowe, Collins and Specter etc?

Just how non-mainstream are these nominees?

With such a huge majority, any vote is merely ceremonial, thus the only vote Repub get in a filibuster. And they can only afford to lose 1 of their votes or they can't even do that. (and they can't even afford to lose even 1 vote if Fraken is seated)

I find it really hard to believe Obama can't nominate someone who is acceptible to at least 2 Repubs.

It sure can't be over abortion, several Repub Senators are pro-choice.

So what's the complaint with these nominees? Does anybody know?

Otherwise, not a big deal IMO; the Dems will soon have 59 votes anyway.

Fern

Except I see no evidence of the Democrats trying to remove the ability of the GOP to filibuster. Do you have any support for that? If not, then the two sides are not even remotely equal.

Nominees? Did you read the article? He's only nominated one so far. As for the extremity of their opinions, that doesn't matter. The Democrats confirmed the vast, vast majority of GWB's judicial appointments, only filibustering those they found way out in right field. The Republicans declared that was unconstitutional anyway, and so the fundamental point isn't changed at all.

The point of all this is not in terms of the Republicans being able to thwart Obama's agenda, they are far too weakened at this point to do much of that, it's to laugh at them for their unabashed, absolutely naked hypocrisy on an issue they deemed so important that they were willing to grind government to a halt in the past.

Fern seems to be unaware of the radical behavior of the Republicans, and of their record of huge hypocris and abuse of power on these matters.

For a couple of examples, you don't see him aware of the history when the Republicans forced President Clinton to submit every planned recess nominee in advance in writing to them so they could better organize opposition, by threatening to block *every nominee* he made as blackmail until he did. It worked. Of course, they abandon the practice immediately when Bush took office (I think that's the best phrase for Bush - 'took' office).

For another example, the Repuvlicans ended the many decades-old practice under both parties to let a state's Senators block a nominee if both Senators from the state made the request, by lowering the standard to only one Senator, for those states who only had one Repblican Senator. And as soon as they had the Senate under Bush - they ended that practice, too.

So Fern is just posting here not well informed, it seems, with a wide-eyed 'what's the problem' tone.

Dang I hate to nestle quotes like this, but seems necessary.

Yeah, I read th article, and the link to the so-called threat to filibuster.

I didn't see anywhere thateh Repubs even used the word 'filibuster'.

So, the Dems aren't complaining (as per eski's remark).

The Repubs haven't yet filibustered anybody.

They write a letter and don't even use the word filibuster.

Yeah, what's the problem as far?
-----------------------

The part of the letter the article cites (not the one eski linked to but their source for this apparently manufactured outrage) looks to reference a 'pocket veto', not a filibuster?

Nope Craig. I thought it still took just one Senator from the nominees state to cast a pocket veto.

Yep, Craig unlike you I'm aware Clinton got about 330-334 nominees past. IIRC, the second most in history. So, what's your 'whine' about how Clinton was treated?

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
So here's the article eskimospy's link uses to support their outrage over claimed' threats of filibuster by Repubs:

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- Republican senators have unanimously signed their names to a letter telling President Barack Obama that he needs to fill some of the many open slots in lower federal courts with President Bush's nominees for those positions or face filibusters of his own picks.

The move, if successful, could be a benefit for the pro-life movement as Bush's judicial selections are significantly more pro-life than the ones Obama will likely make.

During the end of the Bush administration, pro-abortion Democrats in Congress refused to allow votes on some of his nominees, including pro-life advocates who would have been more likely to uphold pro-life laws reducing abortions.

Before he picks judges for new spots, the Republican senators say Obama should reappoint some of the Bush nominees Democrats let flounder without confirmation votes.

Doing so, all 41 Republicans said in a letter to Obama sent to him Monday, would ?change the tone in Washington."

According to the news web site Politico, they also asked Obama to respect the Senate's constitutional role in reviewing judicial nominees by asking for input from the home state senators for any potential judicial selection to determine whether Republicans would be opposed to the pick.

That's where the filibuster threat comes into play.

?Regretfully, if we are not consulted on, and approve of, a nominee from our states, the Republican Conference will be unable to support moving forward on that nominee,? the letter warns. ?And we will act to preserve this principle and the rights of our colleagues if it is not.?


The letter is the first shot in what could be a tough battle on Obama judicial picks and could preview the debate the Senate may have if and when the time comes for Obama to select a new Supreme Court justice.

The Supreme Court was one of the biggest worries for pro-life advocates during the presidential election because it is potentially one vote away from overturning the radical Roe v. Wade decision that allowed for virtually unlimited abortions for any reason throughout pregnancy.

With the election of Obama, pro-life advocates are worried that he will select one or more judges who will replace some of the current group of five pro-abortion justices and serve on the court for decades all the while upholding unlimited abortions.

A potential filibuster, which will be difficult to uphold with only 41 Republicans and some of them taking pro-abortion positions, is the only move the pro-life side has to stop Obama's potential pro-abortion Supreme Court picks.

Ummm..

Word "filibuster" not found.

Author of article is, ahem, 'speculating' the (bolded) portion of the letter he quotes means filibuster. Looks more like a pocket veto to me?

So all this fuss because the Repub Senators send Obama a letter trying to get some influence in the judicial nomination process? My gawd, how dare they :Q

JFC, it's gonna be a long 4 years.

Fern

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Fern
So here's the article eskimospy's link uses to support their outrage over claimed' threats of filibuster by Repubs:

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- Republican senators have unanimously signed their names to a letter telling President Barack Obama that he needs to fill some of the many open slots in lower federal courts with President Bush's nominees for those positions or face filibusters of his own picks.

The move, if successful, could be a benefit for the pro-life movement as Bush's judicial selections are significantly more pro-life than the ones Obama will likely make.

During the end of the Bush administration, pro-abortion Democrats in Congress refused to allow votes on some of his nominees, including pro-life advocates who would have been more likely to uphold pro-life laws reducing abortions.

Before he picks judges for new spots, the Republican senators say Obama should reappoint some of the Bush nominees Democrats let flounder without confirmation votes.

Doing so, all 41 Republicans said in a letter to Obama sent to him Monday, would ?change the tone in Washington."

According to the news web site Politico, they also asked Obama to respect the Senate's constitutional role in reviewing judicial nominees by asking for input from the home state senators for any potential judicial selection to determine whether Republicans would be opposed to the pick.

That's where the filibuster threat comes into play.

?Regretfully, if we are not consulted on, and approve of, a nominee from our states, the Republican Conference will be unable to support moving forward on that nominee,? the letter warns. ?And we will act to preserve this principle and the rights of our colleagues if it is not.?


The letter is the first shot in what could be a tough battle on Obama judicial picks and could preview the debate the Senate may have if and when the time comes for Obama to select a new Supreme Court justice.

The Supreme Court was one of the biggest worries for pro-life advocates during the presidential election because it is potentially one vote away from overturning the radical Roe v. Wade decision that allowed for virtually unlimited abortions for any reason throughout pregnancy.

With the election of Obama, pro-life advocates are worried that he will select one or more judges who will replace some of the current group of five pro-abortion justices and serve on the court for decades all the while upholding unlimited abortions.

A potential filibuster, which will be difficult to uphold with only 41 Republicans and some of them taking pro-abortion positions, is the only move the pro-life side has to stop Obama's potential pro-abortion Supreme Court picks.

Ummm..

Word "filibuster" not found.

Author of article is, ahem, 'speculating' the (bolded) portion of the letter he quotes means filibuster. Looks more like a pocket veto to me?

So all this fuss because the Repub Senators send Obama a letter trying to get some influence in the judicial nomination process? My gawd, how dare they :Q

JFC, it's gonna be a long 4 years.

Fern

So basically the OP and such are "discredited"? Figures...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
As soon as we inject the abortion debate into this judicial debate, then GOP hypocrisy rises exponentially.

Un debatable fact, if the GOP as a political party tried to legislate a some sort of anti abortions laws that are unpopular with the bulk of the voting public, the GOP and the average lamp post is smart enough to realize that its the surest way for the GOP to lose the next election, the election after that, and become a tiny minority party.

Yet at the same time the GOP has to pander to the anti abortionists and become their great white hope. So not only do they they pander to the anti abortionists with pleasing to the ear rhetoric, they still chickenshit rides again refused to sponsor any real legislation. And instead held out this hope that if the radical religious right will continue to support the GOP, the GOP will then let some other entity above the political fray, namely the courts do it by packing the Federal Courts dirty work by appointing reactionary activist judges to accomplish the same ends.

And truth be told, the GOP came damn close to pulling that off, had McCain won, the balance of the SCOTUS might have shifted enough to repeal Roe v Wade, and the religious rights faith in the GOP might be redeemed. As it is, the GOP forgot to win the election of 11/2008, and after various Obama appointees bias the courts the other way, its almost certain to leave the radical religious right saying curses, foiled again for at least a few decades.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Article here.

I for one have always supported the right to filibuster because I view it as an important tool to protect the rights of the minority. I can't help but notice however that the Republicans, having thrown such a shit fit over this issue in the past, are now preparing to use something that only 4 years ago they described as 'unconstitutional'.

At this point I think they are just embarrassing themselves.

This is politics. When the pendelum swings the other way expect the Democrats to do the same.

But you already knew that.

I agree that the degree of respect that any political party has for minority rights tends to be heavily dependent on if they are in the minority or not... hahaha. I expect a degree of hypocrisy from every politician and every political party in that respect. This is a particularly brazen display of it however.

As brazen as [i=this?]http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30143[/i]

Pot meets kettle.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
... had McCain won, the balance of the SCOTUS might have shifted enough to repeal Roe v Wade ...
The possibility of this and the religious right, medieval chicanery that would follow is just frightening. It would be an american version of the taliban.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
55,777
136
Originally posted by: Fern
So here's the article eskimospy's link uses to support their outrage over claimed' threats of filibuster by Repubs:

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- Republican senators have unanimously signed their names to a letter telling President Barack Obama that he needs to fill some of the many open slots in lower federal courts with President Bush's nominees for those positions or face filibusters of his own picks.

The move, if successful, could be a benefit for the pro-life movement as Bush's judicial selections are significantly more pro-life than the ones Obama will likely make.

During the end of the Bush administration, pro-abortion Democrats in Congress refused to allow votes on some of his nominees, including pro-life advocates who would have been more likely to uphold pro-life laws reducing abortions.

Before he picks judges for new spots, the Republican senators say Obama should reappoint some of the Bush nominees Democrats let flounder without confirmation votes.

Doing so, all 41 Republicans said in a letter to Obama sent to him Monday, would ?change the tone in Washington."

According to the news web site Politico, they also asked Obama to respect the Senate's constitutional role in reviewing judicial nominees by asking for input from the home state senators for any potential judicial selection to determine whether Republicans would be opposed to the pick.

That's where the filibuster threat comes into play.

?Regretfully, if we are not consulted on, and approve of, a nominee from our states, the Republican Conference will be unable to support moving forward on that nominee,? the letter warns. ?And we will act to preserve this principle and the rights of our colleagues if it is not.?


The letter is the first shot in what could be a tough battle on Obama judicial picks and could preview the debate the Senate may have if and when the time comes for Obama to select a new Supreme Court justice.

The Supreme Court was one of the biggest worries for pro-life advocates during the presidential election because it is potentially one vote away from overturning the radical Roe v. Wade decision that allowed for virtually unlimited abortions for any reason throughout pregnancy.

With the election of Obama, pro-life advocates are worried that he will select one or more judges who will replace some of the current group of five pro-abortion justices and serve on the court for decades all the while upholding unlimited abortions.

A potential filibuster, which will be difficult to uphold with only 41 Republicans and some of them taking pro-abortion positions, is the only move the pro-life side has to stop Obama's potential pro-abortion Supreme Court picks.

Ummm..

Word "filibuster" not found.

Author of article is, ahem, 'speculating' the (bolded) portion of the letter he quotes means filibuster. Looks more like a pocket veto to me?

So all this fuss because the Repub Senators send Obama a letter trying to get some influence in the judicial nomination process? My gawd, how dare they :Q

JFC, it's gonna be a long 4 years.

Fern

Okay Fern, first you are going to need to go educate yourself on what a 'pocket veto' is. That's something the President does by simply not signing a bill as opposed to flat out vetoing it. It has NOTHING to do with the Senate. How can you discuss the situation when you don't even know the terms?

If they are unable to support moving forward on that nominee, I would LOVE to know what that could possibly mean other than a filibuster. I am not aware of a single source examining the letter, from both the left and the right, that takes it to mean ANYTHING other than a filibuster. If you can provide even one such link to back up your opinion I would love to see it. The actual argument between them is if the Republicans are threatening to filibuster judicial nominees over the loss of their blue slip privileges as opposed to the judges themselves.

So I'm terribly sorry Fern, you just didn't know what you were talking about.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
55,777
136
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Article here.

I for one have always supported the right to filibuster because I view it as an important tool to protect the rights of the minority. I can't help but notice however that the Republicans, having thrown such a shit fit over this issue in the past, are now preparing to use something that only 4 years ago they described as 'unconstitutional'.

At this point I think they are just embarrassing themselves.

This is politics. When the pendelum swings the other way expect the Democrats to do the same.

But you already knew that.

I agree that the degree of respect that any political party has for minority rights tends to be heavily dependent on if they are in the minority or not... hahaha. I expect a degree of hypocrisy from every politician and every political party in that respect. This is a particularly brazen display of it however.

As brazen as [i=this?]http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30143[/i]

Pot meets kettle.

Haha, a link from human events about an unrelated topic. Want me to rebut you with a DailyKos editorial?
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
This OP is on the same level of a winnar or ProJo thread. It's yet another shadenfruede thread that basically goes - 'Haha! Look. The (insert political opposition party name) suxors.

Grow up folks.

Hey TLC, thanks for a stupid comment. (then again, you are TLC... hardly a shock)

The 'nuclear option' was a huge deal 4 years ago. It dominated the headlines for quite awhile and almost led to a governmental meltdown. Now one of the parties involved has explicitly endorsed the procedure that they declared unconstitutional and were willing to melt the government down over.

That's news.

EDIT: If the Democrats suddenly attempt to invoke the nuclear option over this, it would be every bit as stupid, and every bit as newsworthy.
Uh huh. Stupid. Whatever. I'll take that into consideration the next time you whine like a little bitch about a ProJo or winnar thread delving immediately into blatant partisanism, just like this one.

Seems you want it both ways but the truly stupid ones don't understand that you can't have it both ways. Take a good look in the mirror and figure that out, IF you can stand the moronic hypocrite staring back at you while you're doing it.

It doesn't surprise me that you have never had the ability to know the difference between the two. Winnar and Pro-Jo's threads are often worthless not because they attack Democrats, but because they are frequently dishonest in either their facts or their conclusion. If you find my OP to be dishonest in either of those ways, by all means let me know.
Using one-sided facts doesn't make you any less of a partisan tool. It doesn't surprise me that you can't quite figure that out though.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
55,777
136
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Using one-sided facts doesn't make you any less of a partisan tool. It doesn't surprise me that you can't quite figure that out though.

Haha, reality does have a well known liberal bias, right TLC? Too bad you're so blinded by trying to get one over on me. It must really get frustrating to try so hard, and so often, and never succeed.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,192
44
91
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Nothing but left-wing slant here.

Nothing to discuss. You hate Republicans and want them to die.

Time to move along.

:D

Hey, thanks for a stupid post.

Are the Republicans endorsing the filibuster of judicial nominees now, or are they not?

Is this or is this not a practice that they explicitly described as unconstitutional only 4 years ago?

Can you not see why this is funny/sad?

:thumbsup:

Politicians have short memories unfortunately for the country.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,192
44
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Strictly speaking the constitution seems clear that the Senate should provide every nominee with a simple yes or no vote.

If the Republicans feel the need to follow the lead of the Democrats by filibustering nominees then the Democrats should threaten to use the nuclear option.
Get it into the courts and get it over with.

Constitution says "advice and Consent". How do you interpret that as "yes or no vote"?

There is nothing in the Constitution that says anything about an up or down vote. That phrase is a holdover from when Karl Rove was in power.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

Okay Fern, first you are going to need to go educate yourself on what a 'pocket veto' is. That's something the President does by simply not signing a bill as opposed to flat out vetoing it. It has NOTHING to do with the Senate. How can you discuss the situation when you don't even know the terms?

If they are unable to support moving forward on that nominee, I would LOVE to know what that could possibly mean other than a filibuster. I am not aware of a single source examining the letter, from both the left and the right, that takes it to mean ANYTHING other than a filibuster. If you can provide even one such link to back up your opinion I would love to see it. The actual argument between them is if the Republicans are threatening to filibuster judicial nominees over the loss of their blue slip privileges as opposed to the judges themselves.

So I'm terribly sorry Fern, you just didn't know what you were talking about.

OK, maybe I got the term wrong (we'll to get to his really wrong in a minute). Looks like it's called a "blue slip".

Here's your link.

Trying out the proper term for that procedure led me to THIS

The Democrats fired what figures to be the first of many judicial confirmation shots across the Republican bow less than a month after taking the reins of both the White House and the Congress. In early February, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) hinted that the traditional ?blue slip? policy -- under which Senate action will not be taken on a judicial nominee unless both home-state Senators approve by returning their ?blue slips? -- might not be honored now that President Obama will be making the judicial selections.

Such hypocrisy was not unexpected -- this is politics, after all -- but it does demonstrate that the Democrats believe the rules of the judicial confirmation game should only work to benefit liberals, not conservatives.

Indeed, Chairman Leahy?s hint that he would simply throw out the nearly hundred-year-old tradition of allowing home-state Senators, whether Democrat or Republican, to decide whether a judicial nominee will move forward was met with glee by the liberal media.

This past week, an editorial in the New York Times boldly -- and baldly -- asserted that ?blue slips ? are undemocratic and are subject to abuse.? The Times editorial went on to state that the Senate blue slip policy ?should be allowed to die a quiet death.?

That call seems particularly hypocritical for the Gray Lady to be making now, after ignoring the ?undemocratic? and ?abusive? ability of home-state Senators to kill judicial nominations for the past eight years, when a President of a different political party was nominating judges from the same Oval Office.

In fact, the Senate?s traditional blue slip policy claimed more than few victims during the Bush administration.

Most notably, Senators Carl Levin (D-MI) and Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) refused to allow action on any of President Bush?s judicial nominees to Michigan seats on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit until President Bush agreed to re-nominate President Clinton?s previous choice of Helene White to that court. The result was that four Michigan nominees waited for years for any movement on their judicial nominations, with one of the nominees, Judge Henry Saad, eventually having to withdraw after being filibustered.

What?s more unbelievable and egregious about that obstructive example from the past is that the nomination Senators Levin and Stabenow used their ?blue slip? power to get -- that of former Clinton nominee Helene White -- was one based on nepotism, since now-Judge White was formerly married to Senator Levin?s cousin.

Luckily, Senate Republicans seem unified in taking action to ensure that the Democrats don?t use a double standard in playing the judicial confirmation game now that they control both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue.

In a letter sent to President Obama and copied to Chairman Leahy last week, ?All Republican Senators? explained -- ?as our Democratic colleagues have emphasized for the last several years -- that ?the process of federal appointments is a shared constitutional responsibility.? As a result, the entire Republic Senate conference stated that it ?expect[ed]? the Senate and its Judiciary Committee to ?observe[ ]? the traditional ?blue slip? policy ?even-handedly and regardless of party affiliation.? Moreover, the Republican Senators drew a firm line in the sand, writing that ?we will act to preserve this principle and the rights of our colleagues if it is not.?

Such a demand is both fair and warranted given the fact that the Democrats used the ?blue slip? power to delay, obstruct, and kill more than a few of President Bush?s judicial nominees who enjoyed not only the obvious qualifications to sit on the bench but also the majority support necessary to be confirmed.

As prominent conservative commentator Edward Whelan noted on National Review?s ?Bench Memos? blog: ?All that Senate Republicans are seeking is maintenance of the same blue-slip practice that Democrats successfully insisted on under President Bush.?

But Republicans also have the moral high ground in the continuing Judges War. As they noted in their letter to President Obama, and copied to chairman Leahy: ?In the beginning of his Administration, [President Bush] demonstrated his desire to improve the judicial confirmation process by nominating to the circuit courts two of President Clinton?s previous judicial nominees, Judge Barrington Parker to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, and Judge Roger Gregory to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.? Given President Obama?s promise to ?change? the partisan ?tone in Washington,? the letter continued, it would help if the new ?Administration would take the same bipartisan step.?

As regards what knowing what one is talking about - Looks like you got it wrong my friend.

As I thought the letter isn't about filibusters, it's about the blue slip process (as the above article makes clear).

And given Leahy's threat to ignore the Senate's long tradition of the blue slip policy (which is what caused the Repubs to send the letter in the first place!), griping about a (fictional) threat of filibuster and claiming the Repubs are the hypocrits is laughable (Well they are, but the Dems make them look like amatuers.)

Fern
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,983
31,539
146
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Article here.

I for one have always supported the right to filibuster because I view it as an important tool to protect the rights of the minority. I can't help but notice however that the Republicans, having thrown such a shit fit over this issue in the past, are now preparing to use something that only 4 years ago they described as 'unconstitutional'.

At this point I think they are just embarrassing themselves.

well, to be honest, Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond were legendary filibusters. So, was it the Republicans 4 years ago decrying the filibuster who were being hypocritical, or the ones now?

I can't tell, b/c they're all brainless, self-serving politicians.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
55,777
136
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: eskimospy


Okay Fern, first you are going to need to go educate yourself on what a 'pocket veto' is. That's something the President does by simply not signing a bill as opposed to flat out vetoing it. It has NOTHING to do with the Senate. How can you discuss the situation when you don't even know the terms?

If they are unable to support moving forward on that nominee, I would LOVE to know what that could possibly mean other than a filibuster. I am not aware of a single source examining the letter, from both the left and the right, that takes it to mean ANYTHING other than a filibuster. If you can provide even one such link to back up your opinion I would love to see it. The actual argument between them is if the Republicans are threatening to filibuster judicial nominees over the loss of their blue slip privileges as opposed to the judges themselves.

So I'm terribly sorry Fern, you just didn't know what you were talking about.

OK, maybe I got the term wrong (we'll to get to his really wrong in a minute). Looks like it's called a "blue slip".

Here's your link.

As regards what knowing what one is talking about - Looks like you got it wrong my friend.

As I thought the letter isn't about filibusters, it's about the blue slip process (as the above article makes clear).

And given Leahy's threat to ignore the Senate's long tradition of the blue slip policy (which is what caused the Repubs to send the letter in the first place!), griping about a (fictional) threat of filibuster and claiming the Repubs are the hypocrits is laughable (Well they are, but the Dems make them look like amatuers.)

Fern

The letter most certainly IS about filibusters, just in relation to blue slips. Blue slips are explicitly part of the nominee confirmation process in relation to judges, and part of how they accept or reject judicial nominees. Basically the Republicans want to be able to reject judicial nominees without an 'up or down' vote, and because the Democrats are trying to avoid that, the Republicans are threatening to filibuster them. The filibuster threat is not fictional, you just didn't know what you were talking about because you didn't know enough about the terms they use when threatening it.

In fact, now that the blue slip process is brought up they become doubly hypocritical. They want to deny the nominees an 'up or down' vote by one Senate procedural process (the blue slip), but failing that they want to deny them by another procedural process (the filibuster). Considering they spent about 3 months a few years ago threatening to blow up the government because of the 'unconstitutional' nature of denying nominees an 'up or down' vote, this is doubly pathetic.

What's funny is that I agree with the process of the minority being able to block these nominees, and while I certainly support the Republicans being able to do this, they deserve to take a few licks for their childish and irresponsible behavior on this issue in the past. In short, the filibuster threat is very real, it's about the judicial nominee process, and its hypocritical. Just admit it.

Or, like I said, provide some links arguing that they aren't threatening to filibuster judicial nominees. Just a single one will do.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Using one-sided facts doesn't make you any less of a partisan tool. It doesn't surprise me that you can't quite figure that out though.

Haha, reality does have a well known liberal bias, right TLC? Too bad you're so blinded by trying to get one over on me. It must really get frustrating to try so hard, and so often, and never succeed.
lol. Is that what it is to you? Trying to "get one over" on you? Sheesh, what a paranoid, faux intelletual douche you are. People like you are why the Democrats decended into self-parody long, long ago; bottom dwelling in the sewers along with the Republicans.

The entire argument seems to be whose shit smells the least. What a stupid argument.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,231
55,777
136
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Using one-sided facts doesn't make you any less of a partisan tool. It doesn't surprise me that you can't quite figure that out though.

Haha, reality does have a well known liberal bias, right TLC? Too bad you're so blinded by trying to get one over on me. It must really get frustrating to try so hard, and so often, and never succeed.
lol. Is that what it is to you? Trying to "get one over" on you? Sheesh, what a paranoid, faux intelletual douche you are. People like you are why the Democrats decended into self-parody long, long ago; bottom dwelling in the sewers along with the Republicans.

The entire argument seems to be whose shit smells the least. What a stupid argument.

That's not the argument at all. Since you are unable to discern the purpose of the argument, and you don't seem to like it anyway, why are you participating?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Fern
As regards what knowing what one is talking about - Looks like you got it wrong my friend.

As I thought the letter isn't about filibusters, it's about the blue slip process (as the above article makes clear).

And given Leahy's threat to ignore the Senate's long tradition of the blue slip policy (which is what caused the Repubs to send the letter in the first place!), griping about a (fictional) threat of filibuster and claiming the Repubs are the hypocrits is laughable (Well they are, but the Dems make them look like amatuers.)

Fern

Your 'blue slip' argument doesn't make a lot of sense given that Obama's nominee, U.S. District Judge David F. Hamilton, is to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. In Hamilton's home state of Indiana, there is one "D" senator and one "R" senator. Casting blue slips will (at best for the Republicans) result in one favorable opinion and one unfavorable opinion. And what does that accomplish exactly?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Fern
As regards what knowing what one is talking about - Looks like you got it wrong my friend.

As I thought the letter isn't about filibusters, it's about the blue slip process (as the above article makes clear).

And given Leahy's threat to ignore the Senate's long tradition of the blue slip policy (which is what caused the Repubs to send the letter in the first place!), griping about a (fictional) threat of filibuster and claiming the Repubs are the hypocrits is laughable (Well they are, but the Dems make them look like amatuers.)

Fern

Your 'blue slip' argument doesn't make a lot of sense given that Obama's nominee, U.S. District Judge David F. Hamilton, is to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. In Hamilton's home state of Indiana, there is one "D" senator and one "R" senator. Casting blue slips will (at best for the Republicans) result in one favorable opinion and one unfavorable opinion. And what does that accomplish exactly?

I think it is the only thing that makes sense.

The entire premise of this thread is that the letter sent by the Senate Repubs threatens to filibuster. As has been explained above the letter was in response to Patrick Leahy's threat to overturn the 100 year (IIRC) tradition of 'blue slips'. It has nothing to do with filibustering.

Nor does it have anything to do with any single nominee.

As the article at this site demonstrates, the letter by the Repubs was in respone to Leahy's threat top aboloish the "blue slip" process. Nothing to do with filibustering

As I explained very early on in this thread, filibusters can't really be a problem. The Dems have such a large majority thy only need one Repub to support the nominee to prevent any filibuster.

Those in this thread talking Roe v Wade and the abortion issue are sorely misguided in their concerns. There are a number of Senate Repubs who are openly Pro-chioce, I can NOT see them opposing any nominee for that.

Edit: I've underlined portions of the article above. As can plainly be seen the NYT and others are aware of Leahy's threat and have commented on it etc. I do not know why eskimospy continues to deny the obvious. The letter doesn't mention "filibuster", but it does seem to speak to the blue slip process. IMO, it's quite likely this manufactured fuss about filibusters is designed to take attention away from Leahy's threat. A fairly common tactic in politics these days: when you're going to something as controversial as abolish the 100 yr old practice of 'blue slips' you first accuse your opponent of something else to draw the attention away.

Well, I'll just requote the article again. Look at the language in the Repubs letter:

According to the news web site Politico, they also asked Obama to respect the Senate's constitutional role in reviewing judicial nominees by asking for input from the home state senators for any potential judicial selection to determine whether Republicans would be opposed to the pick.

That's where the filibuster threat comes into play. (author trying to distort what is obviously a reference to 'blue slip' into filibuster.)

?Regretfully, if we are not consulted on, and approve of, a nominee from our states, the Republican Conference will be unable to support moving forward on that nominee,? the letter warns. ?And we will act to preserve this principle and the rights of our colleagues if it is not.?

"input from the home state senators" is exactly what the blue slip process is. But eski and the article he links are trying to call that a filibuster. A filibuster is different (denying 60 votes to bring the nomination to a vote) and involves ALL senators, not just the home state senators.

Fern
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Fern
As regards what knowing what one is talking about - Looks like you got it wrong my friend.

As I thought the letter isn't about filibusters, it's about the blue slip process (as the above article makes clear).

And given Leahy's threat to ignore the Senate's long tradition of the blue slip policy (which is what caused the Repubs to send the letter in the first place!), griping about a (fictional) threat of filibuster and claiming the Repubs are the hypocrits is laughable (Well they are, but the Dems make them look like amatuers.)

Fern

Your 'blue slip' argument doesn't make a lot of sense given that Obama's nominee, U.S. District Judge David F. Hamilton, is to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. In Hamilton's home state of Indiana, there is one "D" senator and one "R" senator. Casting blue slips will (at best for the Republicans) result in one favorable opinion and one unfavorable opinion. And what does that accomplish exactly?

I think it is the only thing that makes sense.

The entire premise of this thread is that the letter sent by the Senate Repubs threatens to filibuster. As has been explained above the letter was in response to Patrick Leahy's threat to overturn the 100 year (IIRC) tradition of 'blue slips'. It has nothing to do with filibustering.

Nor does it have anything to do with any single nominee.

As the article at this site demonstrates, the letter by the Repubs was in respone to Leahy's threat top aboloish the "blue slip" process. Nothing to do with filibustering

Your link is filled with lies.

And as I understand it, the blue slip tradition is that if both home state Senators object to a judicial nominee, it's shelved.

Now, your link says a lot about the *Democrats* threatening tradition and not a word about the truth that it's the Republicans who did so.

Under President Clinton, when Republicans controlled the Senate they *changed the tradition* to only require one, not both, Senators to block a nominee, to allow states with only one Republican Senator to block Clinton's nominees - in fact, there was not one judicial nominee with *one* Repulican opposed that the Republicans did not block, according to Sen. Leahy.

And of course when Bush became president, the Republicans changed the system back to require both Senators to block.

And it was the *Republicans* who 'broke the century-old blue slip tradition' in 2004 when for the first time, they proceeded on a nominee who did have both Democratic home state Senators opposed to the nomination. But you don't see any mention of these facts in the dishonest linked artcle.

Why don't you read this statement by Sen. Leahy about that, one of his many pointing out the facts of the Republican hypocrisy and abuse of the system. Now, it's the Republicans who have threatened to block *all* of Pesident Obama's judicial nominees - also not part of the 'blue slip tradition' that again they are breaking.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Fern

According to the news web site Politico, they also asked Obama to respect the Senate's constitutional role in reviewing judicial nominees by asking for input from the home state senators for any potential judicial selection to determine whether Republicans would be opposed to the pick.

That's where the filibuster threat comes into play. (author trying to distort what is obviously a reference to 'blue slip' into filibuster.)

?Regretfully, if we are not consulted on, and approve of, a nominee from our states, the Republican Conference will be unable to support moving forward on that nominee,? the letter warns. ?And we will act to preserve this principle and the rights of our colleagues if it is not.?

"input from the home state senators" is exactly what the blue slip process is. But eski and the article he links are trying to call that a filibuster. A filibuster is different (denying 60 votes to bring the nomination to a vote) and involves ALL senators, not just the home state senators.

Fern

Then just read from eski's article.

Even though they try to claim 'filibuster", the verbiage in the senate letter they quote is clear the subject is 'blue slip', not filibuster.

If Leahy threatened to abolish the blue slip process, I can see a reason to write the President. Why they'd write him about the subject of filibuster makes no sense. AFAIK, no Dem senator has suggested the 'nuclear option'. The letter is not about filibustering, it's about the blue slip.

Fern