Interesting Documentary on Christian Evangelicals.

[LikeLinus]

Ok, had no idea that Noah was 600 years old.

Side note: You are using the Gregorian Calendar as a reference to "years". It was created in 1582. So the 600 years from that time period could be completely different from 600 years using our current calendar. None of the "intelligent" people in this thread have taken the time to point that out. Food for thought.

 

[brianmanahan]

Side note: You are using the Gregorian Calendar as a reference to "years". It was created in 1582. So the 600 years from that time period could be completely different from 600 years using our current calendar. None of the "intelligent" people in this thread have taken the time to point that out. Food for thought.

it was written down by people who went by the ancient hebrew calendar though, which was most likely similar to the mesopotamian calendars. babylonian was 12 lunar months.

unless moses or whoever wrote it down didn't know which calendar noah was using

in the accounts of sumerian kings, those pre-flood dudes lived like 30k years each

 

[MtnMan]

You also believe it's only Christians who are misogynist and racist? Wow, talk about being stupid.

No, there are others, ignorant motherfuckers, but the majority "claim" to be christian in this country, muslim in other parts of the world.

Do you think all Satanist drink goats blood, listen to Norwegian Death Metal and kill people?

What the fuck kind of diversion is this? Surprised you didn't throw in those that follow scat porn.

OBTW, it's the fundy christians and muslims that are big on killing people.

 

[Red Squirrel]

This demonstrates the vital importance of your starting assumptions. Why would you even speculate that there was such a period as "preflood" or that the "genetics were completely different preflood" unless it was to bolster a preordained belief in biblical accounts? I can pretty much guarantee you that I can spin out "possible theories" to explain pretty much any arbitrarily chosen belief. Hey, it shouldn't be too hard to conjure up some explanations that "prove" how the Lord of the Rings might actually be our ancient history. IMHO it is best to critically evaluate and minimize as much as possible your starting assumptions.

A theory is basically that, an assumption, or an educated guess. (talking about actual theory not a scientific theory like theory of gravity) There is not really true info on what 600 years old really meant but we can make some theories on possibilities of what that meant. It's not trying to actually prove anything just trying to make some safe assumptions. Was 600 years actual solar years, or did they use a different system? Or were people's genetics really different? These are all possible theories. None of them are trying to prove that they are 100% right.

 

[MtnMan]

Haha.. That's a great point. Here is a good test. Replace the name of the Bible with the Koran. It all sounds the same.

Because it is the same, basing whom to hate on the ancient ignorance of people that didn't know where the sun went at night.

Footnote: The ancient people of the Middle East probably did understand this, they were pretty advanced, but then religion happened and destroyed that also.

 

[PowerEngineer]

Side note: You are using the Gregorian Calendar as a reference to "years". It was created in 1582. So the 600 years from that time period could be completely different from 600 years using our current calendar. None of the "intelligent" people in this thread have taken the time to point that out. Food for thought.

Well, perhaps the "intelligent" people in this thread realize that the yearly cycle of seasons pretty much ensured that even early civilizations had a reasonably accurate estimate of a year's length. Now if the serial translations of biblical texts wasn't completely accurate (i.e. not "guided by the hand of god"), then perhaps those 600 "years" make better sense as lunar months. And perhaps food for thought on the perils of literal interpretations of biblical stories.

I take your point that it is perilous to jump to conclusions about any individual based on the groups that he/she belongs to. This is particularly true when the groupings are inherent (e.g. sex, race), and IMHO forms the foundation for many problems in today's society. It does seem a little different to me, however, when someone chooses to identify themselves as a member of a group that is voluntary (e.g. proud boy, antifa, hindu, christian, Qanon). You are signing up to take on (at least initially) people's perceptions of that group -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.

 

[MtnMan]

A theory is basically that, an assumption, or an educated guess. (talking about actual theory not a scientific theory like theory of gravity) There is not really true info on what 600 years old really meant but we can make some theories on possibilities of what that meant. It's not trying to actually prove anything just trying to make some safe assumptions. Was 600 years actual solar years, or did they use a different system? Or were people's genetics really different? These are all possible theories. None of them are trying to prove that they are 100% right.

Verses bullshit based on the ignorance of ancient people that didn't know where the sun went at night.

I'll take a "theory" based on evidence and observation over folklore every time.

 

[LikeLinus]

No, there are others, ignorant motherfuckers, but the majority "claim" to be christian in this country, muslim in other parts of the world.

Curious, can you provide data that supports your comment that the majority of "misogynist and racist" claim to be Christians?

 

[PowerEngineer]

A theory is basically that, an assumption, or an educated guess. (talking about actual theory not a scientific theory like theory of gravity).

Yes, a theory is at its heart just a guess -- which is why we can have lots of theories! That said, what matters is finding the theory that best explains the facts as we know them. You might like this better explanation by Feynman:

Feynman on Scientific Method

There is not really true info on what 600 years old really meant but we can make some theories on possibilities of what that meant. It's not trying to actually prove anything just trying to make some safe assumptions. Was 600 years actual solar years, or did they use a different system? Or were people's genetics really different?

Perhaps where we differ is on whether or not the biblical reference to 600 years should be taken as a reliable report of lifespan at the time. From my standpoint, it certainly isn't reliable enough to posit different genetics just 10,000 years ago.

These are all possible theories. None of them are trying to prove that they are 100% right.

There are lots of possible theories. In fact I might have to concede to you that it is essentially impossible to prove that an theory is wrong beyond any shadow of a doubt. But, again, the real challenge is to identify the one theory out of the bunch that does the best job of explaining the facts as we know them. That best theory is just that - the best theory. We are never going to be able to prove that it is 100% correct and have to be open to the idea that new facts will require continuous refinements in our best theories. We can aspire to being 100% right, but we will never get there. But making choices based on the best theories of the day gives us our best chance of being right.

Beliefs based on faith are by definition ones that are held to be 100% right. Theories manufactured to provide pseudo-scientific cover for biblical contradictions with everyday facts are aimed at preserving that faith-based belief at 100%. Or so it seems to me.

 

[LikeLinus]

Well, perhaps the "intelligent" people in this thread realize that the yearly cycle of seasons pretty much ensured that even early civilizations had a reasonably accurate estimate of a year's length.

OK, please feel free to tell us about the "seasons" in the middle east? Some regions do experience changes through the years. Others are a desert and do not really experience the vast changes that you would consider "winter" or "fall". It would completely depend on where the person is living. Sort of how people say San Diego has beautiful weather year round? Or Singapore! That place is 90 at all times! It all depends on where your location is to the the equator.

Still looking for the intelligent people!

 

[PowerEngineer]

OK, please feel free to tell us about the "seasons" in the middle east? Some regions do experience changes through the years. Others are a desert and do not really experience the vast changes that you would consider "winter" or "fall". It would completely depend on where the person is living. Sort of how people say San Diego has beautiful weather year round?

https://www.britannica.com/place/Iraq/Climate

Still looking for the intelligent people!

Skip the mirror.

 

[LikeLinus]

https://www.britannica.com/place/Iraq/Climate
Skip the mirror.

Because we all know that Iran is the entire middle east. Plus, you are kind of proving my point that it depends based on where you live in the region. Iran, an entire country, has two climatic provinces. Neither experience 4 seasons. So a country that has two seasons would have the same calendar as a country that experiences 4 seasons? Better yet, you think that Iran had the same calendar as Russia? LOL.

Try again. Skip the stupidity.

 

[IronWing]

Yes, a theory is at its heart just a guess -- which is why we can have lots of theories! That said, what matters is finding the theory that best explains the facts as we know them. You might like this better explanation by Feynman:

Feynman on Scientific Method



Perhaps where we differ is on whether or not the biblical reference to 600 years should be taken as a reliable report of lifespan at the time. From my standpoint, it certainly isn't reliable enough to posit different genetics just 10,000 years ago.



There are lots of possible theories. In fact I might have to concede to you that it is essentially impossible to prove that an theory is wrong beyond any shadow of a doubt. But, again, the real challenge is to identify the one theory out of the bunch that does the best job of explaining the facts as we know them. That best theory is just that - the best theory. We are never going to be able to prove that it is 100% correct and have to be open to the idea that new facts will require continuous refinements in our best theories. We can aspire to being 100% right, but we will never get there. But making choices based on the best theories of the day gives us our best chance of being right.

Beliefs based on faith are by definition ones that are held to be 100% right. Theories manufactured to provide pseudo-scientific cover for biblical contradictions with everyday facts are aimed at preserving that faith-based belief at 100%. Or so it seems to me.

This is not true for scientific theories. In science, a hypothesis or theory must be falsifiable. It is impossible to prove a theory to be true but all it takes is a single verifiable contradictory observation to deep six a scientific theory. This is the heart of science, the willingness to honestly evaluate our theories in the harsh light of data and jettison theories when the data says they are wrong. Religion has it backwards where observation and reason must yield to faith and dogma.

 

[brianmanahan]

nobody's going to win this "did people live 600 years" argument because nobody was there 4500 years ago or whenever.

it's modern geological, archaeological and genetic research vs. assertions that religious writings from the bronze and iron ages were correct.

(but not all the writings from that time, just the ones we have been told to accept as true)

over time i have learned that there are many writings from the old days and have read many of them, both ones that modern religions accept as true and ones that died off with ancient religions.

some of their details are quite similar, but other details are very different. they are similar, though, in that they make statements that do not match modern research.

so this P&N-style debate could easily continue for another 100 pages

 

[ch33zw1z]

As a person raised evangelical, one of the popular back stories was that all the 40 days of rain fell from a massive cloud that surrounded the earth and protected people better from the sun. God made it fall, and that caused the flood, also affecting people's lifespan. I haven't been to church in 20+ years, dunno if they still drop this hard truth.

This thread delivers tho, lol

 

[PowerEngineer]

Because we all know that Iran is the entire middle east.

So fast to respond that you cannot even remember that my example was Iraq? Perhaps you should just go ahead and google the rest of the Middle East to find any place that doesn't have some annual seasonal patterns.

Plus, you are kind of proving my point that it depends based on where you live in the region. Iran, an entire country, has two climatic provinces. Neither experience 4 seasons. So a country that has two seasons would have the same calendar as a country that experiences 4 seasons? Better yet, you think that Iran had the same calendar as Russia? LOL

So you are really suggesting that the length of a year is tied to the number of defined seasons? 😂 It is the cyclic nature of the seasons and the period between repetitions that sets the measure of a year - not their number or specific nature. It hardly matters how they arrange their days on the calendar. The result is going to be a year with virtually the same number of days. And, yes, their days will have the same length too. 😁

Try again. Skip the stupidity.

My last try. Further stupidity will be skipped.

 

[Mai72]

Side note: You are using the Gregorian Calendar as a reference to "years". It was created in 1582. So the 600 years from that time period could be completely different from 600 years using our current calendar. None of the "intelligent" people in this thread have taken the time to point that out. Food for thought.

In the video the girl should had stated that then. All that she said was people aged differently back then. I formed my opinion from that statement.

 

[dank69]

Evangelicals are the absolute worst. This is very true. Horrible people who are milking people for all their money. Totally agree! They prey on the weakest and I'll never understand how people get wrapped up in that.

It's sort of the same with Cults. I've never understood how people are so weak minded to believe in that crap. It's crazy.

Just wait until you realize how weak minded it is to believe in any god beyond "maybe there is one and maybe there isn't, and if there is one it could be anything." For all we know our "god" could be a 4yo accidentally running a simulation on daddy's "computer."

 

[MtnMan]

Curious, can you provide data that supports your comment that the majority of "misogynist and racist" claim to be Christians?

They are rabid in their support of a misogynist and raciest ex-president.

 

[Fritzo]

I have Evangelical relatives. They're impossible to talk to- their entire worldview is preset yet changes anytime something happens that's not in their favor. They always have an enemy to blame, and everything has a simplistic answer...if it's not simplistic it's "the way God made it."

It's like they're making themselves stupid on purpose because it's easier.

 

[MtnMan]

And raging stupidity... they really do cling to the ignorance of people that didn't have a fucking clue where the sun went every night.

People follow this fucking idiot... think about it.

 

[Mai72]

And raging stupidity... they really do cling to the ignorance of people that didn't have a fucking clue where the sun went every night.

People follow this fucking idiot... think about it.

Didn't god make the sun? 😛

Do you know what's insane? If Graham had a health scare, he'd run to the first doctor whe could find. But but but... what about God? Just pray. He will answer your prayers. I just know it. This reminds me of my dad's friend who was a Christian. He had bowl cancer, and my dad tried to get him to see a doctor. He ignored my father and told him that God will take of it. My dad told him that god made the doctors! Anyway, he ignored my dad and died 7 months later.

 

[MtnMan]

Didn't god make the sun? 😛

Do you know what's insane? If Graham had a health scare, he'd run to the first doctor whe could find. But but but... what about God? Just pray. He will answer your prayers. I just know it. This reminds me of my dad's friend who was a Christian. He had bowl cancer, and my dad tried to get him to see a doctor. He ignored my father and told him that God will take of it. My dad told him that god made the doctors! Anyway, he ignored my dad and died 7 months later.

The angriest I ever remember my grandmother being is when her sister died of a curable disease, even of that era. But her sister had married a Christian Scientist, and died a horrible painful death based solely on the insane ignorance of some stupid religious bullshit.

 

[MtnMan]

Didn't god make the sun? 😛

After he made the fucking universe in the dark....

 

[Pohemi]

After he made the fucking universe in the dark....

"Let there be light! And heavily-armed ushers to seat and protect you whilst you pray."