Interesting article on Steam

[skace]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Why? Because he doesn't like the idea of Valve having big brother like control over all his gaming?

Valve is one of the best things to happen for PC Gamers. The way I see it, you have to fall into 1 of 3 categories to really hate them at this point in time.

A) You like cheating or warezing
B) You are an incredibly old school gamer and aren't really on the internet at all (maybe don't even have an ISP)
C) Your entire gaming budget relies on reselling games

This has nothing to do with whether you like HL2 or not. It has to do with a service that is actually saving small time developers and giving every developer a second change. Developers who failed on the shelves getting another shot at re-listing their game on a service that actually gets them some visibility.

And people who are worried about losing actual boxes. I'm a bigger collector than most here and I bought HL2 over Steam AND they shipped me a box. I bought the collectors edition. There is nothing stopping a developer from listing a product on Steam and shipping you the media. It may not be a popular option right now, but as Steam gains popularity I wouldn't be surprised to see it occur to appease the collectors out there.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
i'm just confused how a nutjob like bfg10k got to be a mod.

Why? Because he doesn't like the idea of Valve having big brother like control over all his gaming?

no cause he's a nutjob

 

[tommo123]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: BD2003
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for non-valve games, steam acts as little more than a frontend to launching the game?

Steamworks should rectify this.

Originally posted by: tommo123
with physical media you can buy it if you are on holiday in that country, through valve you are screwed if you do. why should i pay more since i live in the UK over americans (same goods are sometimes half the cost of those in the UK)?

Basically, you are mad that things cost more in the UK and you used to have a sketchy method of getting them cheaper. You should be mad at the UK not at Valve for helping them uphold their proper market pricing.

what's 'sketchy' about it exactly?

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: tommo123

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: BD2003
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for non-valve games, steam acts as little more than a frontend to launching the game?

Steamworks should rectify this.

Originally posted by: tommo123
with physical media you can buy it if you are on holiday in that country, through valve you are screwed if you do. why should i pay more since i live in the UK over americans (same goods are sometimes half the cost of those in the UK)?

Basically, you are mad that things cost more in the UK and you used to have a sketchy method of getting them cheaper. You should be mad at the UK not at Valve for helping them uphold their proper market pricing.

what's 'sketchy' about it exactly?

its not sketchy but i guess there are regional price differences for a reason and valve didn't want anyone to exploit that.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Why? Because he doesn't like the idea of Valve having big brother like control over all his gaming?

Valve is one of the best things to happen for PC Gamers. The way I see it, you have to fall into 1 of 3 categories to really hate them at this point in time.

A) You like cheating or warezing
B) You are an incredibly old school gamer and aren't really on the internet at all (maybe don't even have an ISP)
C) Your entire gaming budget relies on reselling games

This has nothing to do with whether you like HL2 or not. It has to do with a service that is actually saving small time developers and giving every developer a second change. Developers who failed on the shelves getting another shot at re-listing their game on a service that actually gets them some visibility.

And people who are worried about losing actual boxes. I'm a bigger collector than most here and I bought HL2 over Steam AND they shipped me a box. I bought the collectors edition. There is nothing stopping a developer from listing a product on Steam and shipping you the media. It may not be a popular option right now, but as Steam gains popularity I wouldn't be surprised to see it occur to appease the collectors out there.

Didnt even know that was an option, but thats pretty sweet. If theyre really serious about becoming the platform holder, they really have to push it hard before microsoft steps up and gets serious about GFW live.

Its kind of ironic that of all the companies to push through the most legitimate direct download service and PC gaming platform, its a relatively small developer, and not EA or Microsoft. This all should have been done years ago, but I suppose the other companies were a little too busy with consoles.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: DefRef
I'll ask this again: If EA or some other outfit was running Steam, would you people still love it with all your hearts and souls or would you be suspicious? Given Valve's own track record of lying - *cough*"Half-Life 2 will ship on Sept. 30, 2003."*cough*episodic content will allow for shorter times between games*cough* - I find the willingness to bend over and grab the ankles for Gabe Newell & Company mystifying.

Oh NOOS! A developer missed a ship date!
That has never happened before! It must have been because they were LYING!


This has nothing to do with who made what. I was NOT a steam fan when it first came out but it's a solid product and has changed my mind.


As for Valve making you grab your ankles...perhaps you're doing it wrong?? You're just supposed to use it to download games and such.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: DefRef
I'll ask this again: If EA or some other outfit was running Steam, would you people still love it with all your hearts and souls or would you be suspicious? Given Valve's own track record of lying - *cough*"Half-Life 2 will ship on Sept. 30, 2003."*cough*episodic content will allow for shorter times between games*cough* - I find the willingness to bend over and grab the ankles for Gabe Newell & Company mystifying.

Oh NOOS! A developer missed a ship date!
That has never happened before! It must have been because they were LYING!


This has nothing to do with who made what. I was NOT a steam fan when it first came out but it's a solid product and has changed my mind.


As for Valve making you grab your ankles...perhaps you're doing it wrong?? You're just supposed to use it to download games and such.

you mean it doesn't do my taxes!!!!?????

 

[BFG10K]

Once you register a key you can't register it again.

Yep, that?s the problem. If someone has used a key-gen to get your CD key and already registered it then you can?t play your legit game.

That and if your Steam account is banned (e.g. wrongfully accused of cheating) you lose access to your entire library of games tied to that account.

That would make CD keys pretty useless.

Tell that to Valve given they?re the ones putting them on media.

I've never had an issue playing games offline except of course for online games like TF2.

http://www.google.com/search?q...tartIndex=&startPage=1

Steam is built for being used with an internet connection that's the point of it.

But that?s one of the problems with it; why should I need a connection to play single player games?

Assuming you've installed it once, you can always back up the files and restore them that way. I don't know too many people without access to broadband anyway.

Installing it isn?t the issue, it?s when offline mode breaks after it?s been working successfully before.

The difference is Valve puts out quality products, listens to feedback and supports them.

Like I said: ?Steam is great because Valve make great games?.

It?s like saying ?I like the government stripping away my rights because my local politician is a great guy?.

 

[BFG10K]

The only time this came up is when people were practically trying to steal games by buying them throw Singapore and Russia at a fraction of the cost.

Pardon? If I buy a legit copy of HL2 from Singapore how is that stealing?

If I?m holiday in Singapore and I buy a legit music CD as a present, am I stealing when I bring it back to the ?states?

Do you have a CD music collection? If so, if you moved to another country would you be happy if someone came along and confiscated your library because it was ?stealing? and forced you to buy localized copies of music you already own?

Why are people so eager to piss away their rights to the mighty Valve?

http://consumerist.com/consume...rnationally-314690.php

Originally posted by KeithTalent at 04/02/2008 09:44 AM

I don't even understand what you are trying to say here or is the tinfoil hat you're wearing clouding your thoughts?

That looks suspiciously like a personal attack Keith ? not a good look for a moderator. :thumbsdown:

Originally posted by Inspector Jihad at 04/02/2008 02:00 PM

i'm just confused how a nutjob like bfg10k got to be a mod.

Originally posted by Inspector Jihad at 04/02/2008 04:22 PM

no cause he's a nutjob

Reported for personal attacks.

 

[RandomFool]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Once you register a key you can't register it again.

Yep, that?s the problem. If someone has used a key-gen to get your CD key and already registered it then you can?t play your legit game.

That and if your Steam account is banned (e.g. wrongfully accused of cheating) you lose access to your entire library of games tied to that account.

That would make CD keys pretty useless.

Tell that to Valve given they?re the ones putting them on media.

I've never had an issue playing games offline except of course for online games like TF2.

http://www.google.com/search?q...tartIndex=&startPage=1

Steam is built for being used with an internet connection that's the point of it.

But that?s one of the problems with it; why should I need a connection to play single player games?

Assuming you've installed it once, you can always back up the files and restore them that way. I don't know too many people without access to broadband anyway.

Installing it isn?t the issue, it?s when offline mode breaks after it?s been working successfully before.

The difference is Valve puts out quality products, listens to feedback and supports them.

Like I said: ?Steam is great because Valve make great games?.

It?s like saying ?I like the government stripping away my rights because my local politician is a great guy?.

If someone has gotten your cd-key via keygen before you register the game you always have the option to return it for another one. This isn't unique to Steam at all and is no different from any other game that uses a cd-key.

Thanks for the google search. Let me know when you have a point because I personally still haven't had an issue with playing in offline mode.

You don't need a connection to play games. Please see this link

There's a difference between "Valve makes great games" and "Valve puts out quality products". Since steam was released Valve has consistently updated and improved upon it. Not only fixing bugs but also adding useful features like voice chat and steam community. Other companies aren't know for this sort of thing. If Valve simply left steam as it was it wouldn't have half the support it does today. It's more than simply making great games (which they do) but actually supporting their projects long term AND improving upon them.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

The only time this came up is when people were practically trying to steal games by buying them throw Singapore and Russia at a fraction of the cost.

Pardon? If I buy a legit copy of HL2 from Singapore how is that stealing?

If I?m holiday in Singapore and I buy a legit music CD as a present, am I stealing when I bring it back to the ?states?

Do you have a CD music collection? If so, if you moved to another country would you be happy if someone came along and confiscated your library because it was ?stealing? and forced you to buy localized copies of music you already own?

Why are people so eager to piss away their rights to the mighty Valve?

http://consumerist.com/consume...rnationally-314690.php

Originally posted by KeithTalent at 04/02/2008 09:44 AM

I don't even understand what you are trying to say here or is the tinfoil hat you're wearing clouding your thoughts?

That looks suspiciously like a personal attack Keith ? not a good look for a moderator. :thumbsdown:

Neither is this.

BTW, you forgot his smiley - that changes things a bit. Hope you didnt ban him already.

 

[BFG10K]

If someone has gotten your cd-key via keygen before you register the game you always have the option to return it for another one. This isn't unique to Steam at all and is no different from any other game that uses a cd-key.

This is certainly true, but what is unique to Steam is that I can?t play the game at all.

With others my CD key isn?t blocked unless it detects someone else is using the same key at the same time at the master server. Even if that happens I can still play LAN or single-player games since there?s no mothership controlling it.

Now don?t get me wrong, all of my games are legit, but I primarily play single player and Steam impedes me sometimes. That and Steam attacks my concept of owning games and future security of said games.

Let me know when you have a point because I personally still haven't had an issue with playing in offline mode.

My point is that it?s happened to me a couple to times; a previously working offline mode wouldn?t work and then it magically fixed itself later.

You don't need a connection to play games. Please see this link

I know how Steam & offline mode works because I own boxed Valve titles.

 

[BFG10K]

Neither is this.

BTW, you forgot his smiley - that changes things a bit. Hope you didnt ban him already.

I've apologized to Keith for overreacting and I'll do the same to members here.

I didn't want to be accused of having a bias towards mods when I called out Inspector Jihad but I took it too far, so I apologize to everyone here for my actions.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: BD2003
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for non-valve games, steam acts as little more than a frontend to launching the game?

Steamworks should rectify this.

Originally posted by: tommo123
with physical media you can buy it if you are on holiday in that country, through valve you are screwed if you do. why should i pay more since i live in the UK over americans (same goods are sometimes half the cost of those in the UK)?

Basically, you are mad that things cost more in the UK and you used to have a sketchy method of getting them cheaper. You should be mad at the UK not at Valve for helping them uphold their proper market pricing.

What?
He's 100% wrong.
Games in the UK for PC cost usually £27 max from places like Amazon.co.uk or Play.com (which is about $54), and often are cheaper (£18~£25), which makes them LESS than US prices I believe...?

Games from Steam are $50, and then they add sales tax, which makes basically every game on Steam more expensive than what you can buy from etailers in the UK. That should be the price complaint. They make Steam games (which come without box, CD, manual etc) more expensive than retail ones, and our retail ones are cheaper than those in the US anyway!
Valve themselves don't price games differently depending on region, but many of the people they allow to use their Steam platform do, like CoD4 was priced at $70 for Europe, and Bioshock was $55 instead of $50. Plus some games get discounts for certain regions, but not for others.
The prices we pay retail in the UK are brilliant, the prices Steam offers are poor at best, and there's inequality in many instances where the UK/Europe have Steam prices which are higher than US Steam prices, when we can get the games from non-Steam sources for cheaper than the US Steam prices anyway!

There is little to no incentive to use Steam in the UK except for almost immediate availability, since you lose a lot more (money, rights) than you gain (you don't have to wait 1 or 2 days).

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: BD2003
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for non-valve games, steam acts as little more than a frontend to launching the game?

Steamworks should rectify this.

Originally posted by: tommo123
with physical media you can buy it if you are on holiday in that country, through valve you are screwed if you do. why should i pay more since i live in the UK over americans (same goods are sometimes half the cost of those in the UK)?

Basically, you are mad that things cost more in the UK and you used to have a sketchy method of getting them cheaper. You should be mad at the UK not at Valve for helping them uphold their proper market pricing.

What?
He's 100% wrong.
Games in the UK for PC cost usually £27 max from places like Amazon.co.uk or Play.com (which is about $54), and often are cheaper (£18~£25), which makes them LESS than US prices I believe...?

Games from Steam are $50, and then they add sales tax, which makes basically every game on Steam more expensive than what you can buy from etailers in the UK. That should be the price complaint. They make Steam games (which come without box, CD, manual etc) more expensive than retail ones, and our retail ones are cheaper than those in the US anyway!
Valve themselves don't price games differently depending on region, but many of the people they allow to use their Steam platform do, like CoD4 was priced at $70 for Europe, and Bioshock was $55 instead of $50. Plus some games get discounts for certain regions, but not for others.
The prices we pay retail in the UK are brilliant, the prices Steam offers are poor at best, and there's inequality in many instances where the UK/Europe have Steam prices which are higher than US Steam prices, when we can get the games from non-Steam sources for cheaper than the US Steam prices anyway!

There is little to no incentive to use Steam in the UK except for almost immediate availability, since you lose a lot more (money, rights) than you gain (you don't have to wait 1 or 2 days).

I think the US companies are still in a bit of denial about how sh*t the dollar is, I'd expect that to change over time.

Either way, the reason games on steam cost the same (or more for UK) as retail is because of the retailers. Huge retailers like gamestop basically give the publishers an ultimatum - price it the same, or we wont put it on our shelves. Retail sales is still the bread and butter, so they can go only so far to offend the retailers. Again, I'd expect this to change over time as well, as people migrate to digital downloads and away from retail.

But of course theyre not going to migrate en masse unless theres a good reason. Not having to go to the store is a decent one. Being able to tap into an integrated platform is a much better one.

 

[j0j081]

My main complaint is that you can't add games you buy in the store to steam by their product key or something. I like having the retail boxes for my collection, not to mention pc games are often on really good deals not long after coming out at places like bb and cc. I don't see why it really matters to valve.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Neither is this.

BTW, you forgot his smiley - that changes things a bit. Hope you didnt ban him already.

I've apologized to Keith for overreacting and I'll do the same to members here.

I didn't want to be accused of having a bias towards mods when I called out Inspector Jihad but I took it too far, so I apologize to everyone here for my actions.

:lips:

Originally posted by: j0j081
My main complaint is that you can't add games you buy in the store to steam by their product key or something. I like having the retail boxes for my collection, not to mention pc games are often on really good deals not long after coming out at places like bb and cc. I don't see why it really matters to valve.

it depends on the publisher...certain games like prey and red orchestra let you add the retail cd key into steam. i believe its a deal the publishers have with valve.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: j0j081
My main complaint is that you can't add games you buy in the store to steam by their product key or something. I like having the retail boxes for my collection, not to mention pc games are often on really good deals not long after coming out at places like bb and cc. I don't see why it really matters to valve.

I thought it already worked like that. You don't dodge steam by buying a valve game in the store. You don't even need the CDs or box, just the cd key. There's a thing that lets you register the key and you can put the box away if you like.

Thats how I typically do it. People are correct here that you can buy the games cheaper in the store most of the time so I just do that.

 

[RandomFool]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: j0j081
My main complaint is that you can't add games you buy in the store to steam by their product key or something. I like having the retail boxes for my collection, not to mention pc games are often on really good deals not long after coming out at places like bb and cc. I don't see why it really matters to valve.

I thought it already worked like that. You don't dodge steam by buying a valve game in the store. You don't even need the CDs or box, just the cd key. There's a thing that lets you register the key and you can put the box away if you like.

Thats how I typically do it. People are correct here that you can buy the games cheaper in the store most of the time so I just do that.

Valve games work like that but the others don't. Does anyone know if there's a list of the games that do support this? I might start adding them to steam.

 

[Noema]

I used to love Steam. Now more and more publishers are using regional locks on their games to prevent everyone outside the US and Canada from buying games via Steam.

Since Steam was the only way I could buy most games, now my options are becoming really limited.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: RandomFool

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: j0j081
My main complaint is that you can't add games you buy in the store to steam by their product key or something. I like having the retail boxes for my collection, not to mention pc games are often on really good deals not long after coming out at places like bb and cc. I don't see why it really matters to valve.

I thought it already worked like that. You don't dodge steam by buying a valve game in the store. You don't even need the CDs or box, just the cd key. There's a thing that lets you register the key and you can put the box away if you like.

Thats how I typically do it. People are correct here that you can buy the games cheaper in the store most of the time so I just do that.

Valve games work like that but the others don't. Does anyone know if there's a list of the games that do support this? I might start adding them to steam.

as far as i know its just prey and red orchestra. there is a thread in one of the steam forums which lists all the games.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Elcs
I have an issue with Steam. More than likely its nothing to do with them and more to do with me... but I'll be darned if I know the answer.

I have an issue with a stable download stream from Steam. I can get speeds of 100-200Kb/s however that may only last for a few moments and it stops stating "Downloading XX%" rather than "Downloading XX% - 100kB/s".

I have used all of their FAQs and tried various settings on my router to try and remedy this to no avail.

Saying that, I have managed to scramble down around 15 Gb from Steam andI like it besides the download issue. With EA Stores... I can achieve 300-400kB/s easily and downloading through it is extremely simple.

EA is anything but simple. For some reason it uses a separate logon from your games, and downloads only last 6 months, after which you must buy the game again. I've been downloading HL2 for 3 years from Steam.