Steam sucks if you buy the game that wasnt produced by valve. Happened with me with COD4 and Jagged Alliance 2. It took a lot of bullshit to get them to work properly, which would not have happened if I went out to a store and bought the game. I will only buy valve games on steam from now on unless its a killer deal
I don't really care for Steam because it's a single point of failure that can deny people from playing the games they paid for. It assumes that you're a criminal and demands that you adapt your lifestyle and gaming habits to their demands, otherwise you're SOL. If they were ever to go out of business - not an inpossibility - then what happens to our games?
My largest beef is that you are unable to dispose off your games that are locked to your Steam account. You can sell or trade your console titles - albeit not XBLA titles - but PC games are more and more likely to be non-disposable. What if you discover you hate a game or simply finish it and don't plan to play it again? You're stuck; out the money you spent and unable to recoup a penny. A friend finished HL2 and wanted to give it to another friend of mine, but when friend #2 went to install it, the key was burned. I ended up gifting him my Orange Box copy, but this is a problem, too. Why can't we sell out extra Orange Box games or our old Steam titles? There is nothing technical preventing Valve from allowing this other than they don't want to.
If you buy just about any other product, you can dispose of it as you choose. Software and music (e.g. from iTunes) is locked to the purchaser and you can't dispose of it. That's wrong.
My largest beef is that you are unable to dispose off your games that are locked to your Steam account. You can sell or trade your console titles - albeit not XBLA titles - but PC games are more and more likely to be non-disposable. What if you discover you hate a game or simply finish it and don't plan to play it again? You're stuck; out the money you spent and unable to recoup a penny. A friend finished HL2 and wanted to give it to another friend of mine, but when friend #2 went to install it, the key was burned. I ended up gifting him my Orange Box copy, but this is a problem, too. Why can't we sell out extra Orange Box games or our old Steam titles? There is nothing technical preventing Valve from allowing this other than they don't want to.
If you buy just about any other product, you can dispose of it as you choose. Software and music (e.g. from iTunes) is locked to the purchaser and you can't dispose of it. That's wrong.
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
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- 81
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 2,973
- 126
Yes, please tie all of my games to the mothership which can then decide if I?m not worthy to access my games by locking my account. :roll:
Steam sucks utter balls. It's just another form of DRM that has the ability to lock you out of legitimate purchases. And the more eggs you?ve got in that basket, the more will break when it gets dropped.
The last thing I want is games that I paid for stored on some remote server in a company office. More stupid DRM that only ends up annoying legitimate buyers. The pirates are already far ahead of valve, every game has been cracked. I don't know where people got the idea that Steam games are somehow immune to pirating.
Not to mention that Steam is totally bloated and takes forever just to start up.
Not to mention that Steam is totally bloated and takes forever just to start up.
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,769
- 52
- 91
Steam only takes 5 seconds to start on my computer 
I'd rather use Steam than have some crappy program that I didn't ask to have installed check to see if I have the stupid DVD in my drive every time I want to play
I'd rather use Steam than have some crappy program that I didn't ask to have installed check to see if I have the stupid DVD in my drive every time I want to play
I have a question on Steam. When I bought and installed a game from Steam, can I download a patch and update the game from the company directly?
Recently bought Baseball Mogul 2008 from Steam (at usd19.99 -- 2 weeks later it is in promotion for usd4.99 argg!), and their version is like 10.2x while the latest version of the game is something like 10.3x... but the in game patch update program says I cannot auto update on this version and must buy the game from the company!
Am I stuck with an older version of the game with Steam?
Recently bought Baseball Mogul 2008 from Steam (at usd19.99 -- 2 weeks later it is in promotion for usd4.99 argg!), and their version is like 10.2x while the latest version of the game is something like 10.3x... but the in game patch update program says I cannot auto update on this version and must buy the game from the company!
Am I stuck with an older version of the game with Steam?
I'm plenty willing to make that concession for the numerous other benefits I garner from the service.
As much as I loved the boxed copy, and the ability to resell the games, if they can finally deliver on seamless auto-updating, voice chat, matchmaking, buddy lists etc for ALL games (not just valve games), and especially if I dont need to fish out the damn DVD just to start the game, I'm sold. PC gaming is missing a true integrated online community like XBL, and steam is the closest its going to get.
More like a sacrifice of rights (the ability to dispose of your games) AND convenience (you must activate online and rely on them for patches) in exchange for....what? Not having to keep track of your physical media? The selling point of Steam to publishers is that it's harder to pirate. Who are the pirates? US!!! We're considered to be the pirates and thus we are shackled with this Steam thing.
I think 99% of the goodwill Steam has is because of Half-Life and Valve. If EA was running this racket, people would be mostly against it. You don't see people posting "I <3 EA Downloader and Direct2Drive.", do you? If the mechanics are the same, why does Steam get the love? Look at the support Stardock has gotten because they haven't slathered DRM all over Galactic Civilizations and Sins of a Solar Empire. It's easy as pie to gank their games but they have earned mucho respect because they've treated their customers as people, not pirates. Over at the Stardock forums I've seen people admit that they downloaded Sins to "try it out" but because they liked it, they went and bought it to show respect for the game and its maker. Does anyone feel guilty about warezing an EA game? [crickets]
I think 99% of the goodwill Steam has is because of Half-Life and Valve. If EA was running this racket, people would be mostly against it. You don't see people posting "I <3 EA Downloader and Direct2Drive.", do you? If the mechanics are the same, why does Steam get the love? Look at the support Stardock has gotten because they haven't slathered DRM all over Galactic Civilizations and Sins of a Solar Empire. It's easy as pie to gank their games but they have earned mucho respect because they've treated their customers as people, not pirates. Over at the Stardock forums I've seen people admit that they downloaded Sins to "try it out" but because they liked it, they went and bought it to show respect for the game and its maker. Does anyone feel guilty about warezing an EA game? [crickets]
- Apr 17, 2005
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Because you can and should make the parallel between video gaming and politics?
I am the first to hate DRM when it is intrusive and by unknown names in the industry who go on to become known tyrants of the industry. Starforce, Securom etc. However, Steam is the PC version of having the Nintendo Wii store on my PC except I don't ever have to buy a physical game disc and manual, which I haven't used in ages in the first place, and I can always get my game again.
Steam is pretty solid right now and its only getting better with the 'steam' they have behind it pushing it to greater coverage. Pun intended. The only downside is that its TOO easy to buy games off of it. My credit card suffers as steam flourishes.
How many of you honestly sold your old computer games? :laugh: I've never heard people complaining about that before.
I've sold a fair few games, and bought a lot second hand as well.
I sold UT2003 and Unreal 2 once I'd had enough of them.
Discworld Noir, Enter the Matrix, Will Rock as well.
And bought a LOT second hand.
I always purchase games in the box... But I register them with Steam if possible... It's a MAJOR convenience.
An example among many; Just recently I had to reinstall windows (two times, actually). I didn't want to reinstall all of HL2, it takes forever and I hate swapping CDs. All I wanted for the time being was my CS:S back, so I just installed Steam, logged back into my account, and double clicked on CS:S. It downloaded and installed on it's own, leaving me alone, without any kind of annoyances what-so-ever.
I also love Steam.
An example among many; Just recently I had to reinstall windows (two times, actually). I didn't want to reinstall all of HL2, it takes forever and I hate swapping CDs. All I wanted for the time being was my CS:S back, so I just installed Steam, logged back into my account, and double clicked on CS:S. It downloaded and installed on it's own, leaving me alone, without any kind of annoyances what-so-ever.
I also love Steam.
Golgatha
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2003
- 12,651
- 1,514
- 126
Agreed. Steam is necessary to me simply because I can't get Valve's games any other way, and Valve makes some pretty great games. If there is a retail boxed equivalent to a Steam game, I will purchase it in that form (typically for far less than Steam sells it for too).
- Nov 30, 2005
- 50,235
- 117
- 116
I love Steam, I really do, but until I have the ability to sell/trade the games I have on Steam I will continue to buy the majority of them in hard copy.
KT
KT
I had four concerns when Steam debuted:
1) Stability
2) What happens if Valve tanks
3) Game resale
4) Activation / offline mode
The first two have been mitigated, and the last largely irrelevant due to my broadband access. I can see why the third item is a sticking point - imagine the resale market if you could instantly transfer games between users, and supplement that with the headaches of people with hijacked accounts. I believe the former point is more why it hasn't been implemented.
Oh, and if you're cutting out the middle man, the games should generally not cost full retail.
1) Stability
2) What happens if Valve tanks
3) Game resale
4) Activation / offline mode
The first two have been mitigated, and the last largely irrelevant due to my broadband access. I can see why the third item is a sticking point - imagine the resale market if you could instantly transfer games between users, and supplement that with the headaches of people with hijacked accounts. I believe the former point is more why it hasn't been implemented.
Oh, and if you're cutting out the middle man, the games should generally not cost full retail.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
- 21,732
- 561
- 126
Steam has its drawbacks. The phone home thing, some weird pricing models, its offline mode needed work last time I used it, and of course the philosophical ones like "Its DRM." Which, it kind of is.
But people act like its not a nightmare in the traditional front when they bash it. Its not like traditonal publishers have made anything easy over there. Are you guys not familiar with these tasks?
Game manuals/disk/box/collection - This is just a difference of opinion in my perspective. I know some people like collections on the shelf and want a manual to read on the toilet or something. Personally? My computer room looks like a bomb went off in neweggs warehouse most of the time. Screw drivers and cables and disks all over the place, manuals for parts I don't even have. Piles of damn junk mail that I can't keep shredded fast enough. The last thing I want is more paper. I make an effort to keep important disks, but I'd rather have a file. I can backup a file if its important. I can CTRL+F a file. I don't need more stuff to fill my trash cans with.
Patch hunting - You're already downloading your games. Massive patches that are a chore to download on dialup are pretty normal. And you've got to go search them out. And lots of games are making me go through motherfucking fileplanet all the time to get their patches! Fuckers can't even host their own bug fixes anymore.
Patches are nuts, in the old days maybe 1 patch came out because games were simpler so it wasn't so bad. Now, its actually a pretty big pain in the ass keeping your games updated! You can't just load up game X that you haven't played in 3 months and log on to the local server because now everyone has a different version. So load up your web browser, its time to go searching for the latest patch on file planet...steam takes it off your hands (for better or worse). You turn it on, it starts downloading the patches and it more or less works. It could be faster and they could do a little better job QAing the patches, but at least when you start it up it gets you do the level playing field without any thinking on your part.
DRM - Don't act like it isn't crawling up your butt when you buy a game in the store! Oh god damn I hate this part.
Despite steams problems, I haven't heard of it destroying DVD drives or crippling other aspects of your computer. Steam doesn't check to make sure you don't have drive cloning software installed before you start up HL2. It doesn't demand you fumble with disks every time you switch games
And Steam doesn't actively work at cripplingly your ability to back up what you bought! Steam lets you copy that game content to a DVD. Most disk based games require the original CD to install, then when you go to back it up so it doesn't get scratched you have to spend a few hours at game copy world trying to break the copy protection. Assuming thats even possible or that you don't need to buy a new CD drive or something to do it.
Oh? Your CD is scratched because the game as a disk check on startup and you put it in and out of your drive 50,000 times? Well, just pay the $9 bucks to have the company replace it. Oh wait? Its an old game and that company hasn't existed for 5 years? I guess then you could warez it or jump off a bridge? You lost the disk in that tornado of a room we all have? I guess you can spend the 5 hours searching for it only to find out you lost the CD key and can't install it anyway.
Yes, you have to be on the internet to use your games. Thats annoying. And yes, a nuke could potentially hit valve's offices and all your games wouldn't work. I'll take that risk over the other crap myself though.
Anyway, steam has got problems of course. But the traditional model is so fucked up right now I don't see why there is so much venom for the digital distribution side of things.
But people act like its not a nightmare in the traditional front when they bash it. Its not like traditonal publishers have made anything easy over there. Are you guys not familiar with these tasks?
Game manuals/disk/box/collection - This is just a difference of opinion in my perspective. I know some people like collections on the shelf and want a manual to read on the toilet or something. Personally? My computer room looks like a bomb went off in neweggs warehouse most of the time. Screw drivers and cables and disks all over the place, manuals for parts I don't even have. Piles of damn junk mail that I can't keep shredded fast enough. The last thing I want is more paper. I make an effort to keep important disks, but I'd rather have a file. I can backup a file if its important. I can CTRL+F a file. I don't need more stuff to fill my trash cans with.
Patch hunting - You're already downloading your games. Massive patches that are a chore to download on dialup are pretty normal. And you've got to go search them out. And lots of games are making me go through motherfucking fileplanet all the time to get their patches! Fuckers can't even host their own bug fixes anymore.
Patches are nuts, in the old days maybe 1 patch came out because games were simpler so it wasn't so bad. Now, its actually a pretty big pain in the ass keeping your games updated! You can't just load up game X that you haven't played in 3 months and log on to the local server because now everyone has a different version. So load up your web browser, its time to go searching for the latest patch on file planet...steam takes it off your hands (for better or worse). You turn it on, it starts downloading the patches and it more or less works. It could be faster and they could do a little better job QAing the patches, but at least when you start it up it gets you do the level playing field without any thinking on your part.
DRM - Don't act like it isn't crawling up your butt when you buy a game in the store! Oh god damn I hate this part.
Despite steams problems, I haven't heard of it destroying DVD drives or crippling other aspects of your computer. Steam doesn't check to make sure you don't have drive cloning software installed before you start up HL2. It doesn't demand you fumble with disks every time you switch games
And Steam doesn't actively work at cripplingly your ability to back up what you bought! Steam lets you copy that game content to a DVD. Most disk based games require the original CD to install, then when you go to back it up so it doesn't get scratched you have to spend a few hours at game copy world trying to break the copy protection. Assuming thats even possible or that you don't need to buy a new CD drive or something to do it.
Oh? Your CD is scratched because the game as a disk check on startup and you put it in and out of your drive 50,000 times? Well, just pay the $9 bucks to have the company replace it. Oh wait? Its an old game and that company hasn't existed for 5 years? I guess then you could warez it or jump off a bridge? You lost the disk in that tornado of a room we all have? I guess you can spend the 5 hours searching for it only to find out you lost the CD key and can't install it anyway.
Yes, you have to be on the internet to use your games. Thats annoying. And yes, a nuke could potentially hit valve's offices and all your games wouldn't work. I'll take that risk over the other crap myself though.
Anyway, steam has got problems of course. But the traditional model is so fucked up right now I don't see why there is so much venom for the digital distribution side of things.
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