Intels in trouble..

[2is]

Tweakboy?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Wait, Intel is the only one doing proper tablets running Windows last I looked, and they do have a smartphone chip that is actually pretty good (I think AT even looked at it in depth) - where are you getting your info Fx1? I don't think AMD will exist in its current form in 5 years. I'm pretty sure Intel will.

Frankly, I'd rather see AMD ripped apart into some form that can finally offer competition, and leave the AMD64 patent safely with Intel or something...as it stands, AMD is nothing to me beyond a good joke.

 

[Phynaz]

i dunno...be innovative.

Yeah, cause you know 22nm finfets, or analog RF IC's aren't innovative.

 

[Dark Shroud]

When people say that Intel is sitting on its laurels, I wonder what Intel is supposed to do to appease those people.

Well they're finally updating Atom and actually developing their graphics chips. The only problem here is that AMD offers a cheap mobile package with better graphics. And both Samsung & Qualcom have very good mobile offerings.

Intel simply created the notebook market as we know today. Low power high performance chips are commodities today just because of Intel focus since Conroe.

Netbooks don't sell well and now it's a declining market. People are either buying full laptops and/or tablets. AMD also made great mobile deigns with Bobcat that was better than Atom. Now Jaguar is a full update with more features and is able to scale well for the device.

http://www.techpowerup.com/180394/A...he-Fight-to-Atom-with-AVX-SSE4-Quad-Core.html

Intel is also working hard to bring their mainstream uarch to power levels that could power a tablet, something that ARM cannot even think about compete. ARM will be hard pressed here.

I'll wait until Intel's final product here to pass judgement. Samsung & Qualcom have some new chips that are pretty good. We don't even know what AMD is going to do here besides Jaguar.

An AMD ARM SOC would be very interesting. Both Intel & AMD have the advantage of building down vs ARM having to build up if that makes sense.

Last, but not least, Intel could push atom into phones. And this is the 5 years old Atom core, Silvermont should bring a lot of goodies on this market too, and pressure ARM on servers.

I do not think too much of ARM servers because I'm not sure of what they'd e used for; but I do not see Atom taking out ARM when it comes to cell phones. I expect that Tizen will run on Intel chips, Android does have x86 support from the community but that will need some serious work.

Sure, they have a long way to go against mobile but I do not see a company sitting on its laurels, but working hard to open new markets and counter the visible threats. There is no Intel market where ARM will have an easy time penetrating and at the same time Intel is preparing a heavy assault on ARM markets.

Meanwhile AMD already has an ARM license via SeaMicro purchase and Jaguar cores also as an option. Samsung & Qualcom can easily buy/license GPUs from AMD to put into their ARM SOCs to better compete with Intel Atom chips.

Remember that Facebook & Mircosoft have asked Intel for server chips comprised of many Atom cores as low power options. These two companies host some of the biggest servers network in the world. Yet I do not think Intel ever delivered on that. Facebook has also talked openly of using ARM servers to handle some aspects of Facebook.

It was companies like SeaMicro that started building these low power servers on their own using Atom & Arm clusters.

Now AMD can do this with Jaguar & ARM. In a few months or so Microsoft will probably show the 3rd gen Xbox running an octo-core Jaguar chip

The problem for Intel is that AMD is right in the middle of the mobile/low power foray. AMD is more than willing to license designs or build chips for anyone who shows up with check book in hand. Which explains Intel's push for that 14nm fab.

 

[Centauri]

This.

Let's not forget that AMD supplied the GPU in both the Wii and Xbox 360 and they were still losing money.

Still losing money > Not losing even more money.

With regard to this round of consoles vs the last round and bottom line importance;

GPU, GPU vs GPU, CPU/GPU, CPU/GPU...

I'll take the latter please.

 

[TuxDave]

i dunno...be innovative.

Gather and transactional memory not good enough for you?

 

[OCGuy]

How is this poster still even around?

 

[dud]

Shh... don't bring facts into the OP's AMD worship.

Why would anyone "worship" either AMD or Intel? This has got to be one of the most asinine statements I've ever seen in 12 years as a member here.

ALL of the computers I currently own use Intel chips ... does that make me an Intel worshiper. Idiot.

I wish people would stop being stupid and realize that one chip maker is bad for all of us while 2 or more is healthy for competition and better for consumers.

 

[monstercameron]

Gather and transactional memory not good enough for you?

I am pretty sure joe blow understand what that means. Anyone can make something technical impressive but is it innovative?

 

[podspi]

Can you give us an example of innovation?

 

[Puppies04]

Can you give us an example of innovation?

How about we let this thread die, the original statement had about as much insight as a blind man in an art gallery.

 

[CHADBOGA]

AMD is very painfully ripping off the bandaid right now. Intel's pain is gonna be more drawn out.

Or non-existant.

 

[Shamrock]

The OP is right and wrong in his post.

Right:
AMD made a power move. The PS4, and (rumored) XBox720 will both have AMD cpus, and gpus. Let's hope this can bring AMD up.

Moreover, NVidia will continue to be a partner in physx middleware. PhysX will be running on AMD hardware? hmm...
http://physxinfo.com/news/10531/nvi...tner-for-physics-middleware-on-playstation-4/

wrong:
Intel is just fine. The trouble they are in, is having trouble deciding what's for lunch.

 

[mikeymikec]

Why would anyone "worship" either AMD or Intel? This has got to be one of the most asinine statements I've ever seen in 12 years as a member here.

You may not be aware of their existence, but there are people who do this. Read any AMD vs. Intel thread on this forum and you'll see people who will say "this processor is better than that one because it beat it in this test!" (while ignoring the other 99). Don't ask why they do it, they just do.

ALL of the computers I currently own use Intel chips ... does that make me an Intel worshiper. Idiot.

No, it doesn't. I've almost exclusively bought AMD processors (at least an AMD 10:1 Intel ratio) since about the year 2000 until AMD flopped with Bulldozer.

 

[Puppies04]

Right: AMD made a power move. The PS4, and (rumored) XBox720 will both have AMD cpus, and gpus. Let's hope this can bring AMD up.

I don't see it as a "power move" AMD have a vested interest in providing these chips because they are paying for fab production that they aren't using at the moment. They can effectively sell the chips for 0% profit or even a loss and end up in a better position than they are currently. Intel on the other hand don't have this issue and while they could easily afford to produce these chips and sell for a tiny or no margin the only benefit they would gain is killing off AMD faster.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Intel is going to have 14nm cpus in a couple of short years. These cpus will draw very little power imo.

 

[blastingcap]

Until Intel server share is under serious threat, I would not worry too much about Intel. Even as people move away from desktops to thin clients, Intel powers the cloud. It's only a matter of time before Intel makes serious inroads in mobile as well.

 

[Puppies04]

Until Intel server share is under serious threat, I would not worry too much about Intel. Even if people move away from desktops to thin clients, Intel powers the cloud. It's only a matter of time before Intel makes serious inroads in mobile as well.

FTFY. I will tell you now I will never adopt this technology until the day it is impossible to have my own machine in my own home and I am certainly not the only one.

 

[mrmt]

Well they're finally updating Atom and actually developing their graphics chips. The only problem here is that AMD offers a cheap mobile package with better graphics. And both Samsung & Qualcom have very good mobile offerings.

I think your post deserves to be split

First you have Intel remarks and then your AMD remarks.

You point out that Intel will face competition from Samsung and Qualcomm, which is correct. What I was pointing out in the previous post is that Intel will compete with those companies in their own turf.

As for your AMD remarks, others had better answers here and in other threads, I won't touch them, but there is a point I'd like dig a bit deeper, embedded, as you and others here believe that is AMD's salvation. The history is a bit more complex.

The problem for Intel is that AMD is right in the middle of the mobile/low power foray. AMD is more than willing to license designs or build chips for anyone who shows up with check book in hand.

When you hire a designer for your embedded/custom solutions, what you give him is a sizable order during a reasonable time period, normally exceeding the retail time frame of this given SKU. You usually refrain from going to top SKUs and bleeding edge hardware because they are expensive and you have all the interest in keeping your BoM as low as possible, you want a race to the bottom, and at this moment you aren't really committed to any hardware vendor, you surely will ask for prices in more than one place. This usually lowers price and margins from the hardware company, not a nice business in the first sight. Why they bid then? Because for the MPU company embedded will generate a small, steady steam of profits that when you put in a spam of many years, it will yield good ROI, it just won't be fast.

And this is *exactly* the opposite of what a bleeding edge company needs. Companies working in a bleeding edge need returns in a very short time frame in order to reinvest this cash (and it's always more than in the previous generation) to pull out another bleeding edge product and restart the cycle. High returns in a very short time, this is the bleeding edge mantra. And that's why Intel has been consistently shunning the embedded market, it simply won't generate returns fast enough for Intel. AMD was doing the same until Bulldozer, but as of now their market has gone kaput, between low returns on embedded or no returns at all, the choice is clear.

When I first listened to Rory Read speech about giving up competition on Intel I thought it was rhetoric only, but it isn't. All the moves he's been making, tying themselves to a subpar foundry, slowing down R&D, going to "me too" ARM cores, using nodes for more time, ditching SOI, focusing on low returns market etc etc etc, point for a company leaving the bleeding edge and trying to get a place on the lagging edge market, not a company trying to directly compete against Intel and whatever other bleeding edge company out there.

This means that not even Kabini they will be bleeding edge anymore. AMD will probably be competing with 28nm chips when Intel will be with their 14nm and the ARM pack at 20nm. I don't think AMD is a problem for Intel anymore. They are fading away, they won't be in the same market in the next 3-4 years.

 

[tweakboy]

Red is the color of the devil

 

[parvadomus]

AMD needs access to better fab process. If it were on par with intel's then the story would be completely different, or at least much much better for them.

 

[mrmt]

AMD needs access to better fab process. If it were on par with intel's then the story would be completely different, or at least much much better for them.

Every company needs access to better fab process. Whether they can/wish to afford, that's another story.

 

[jpiniero]

Until Intel server share is under serious threat, I would not worry too much about Intel. Even as people move away from desktops to thin clients, Intel powers the cloud. It's only a matter of time before Intel makes serious inroads in mobile as well.

Intel's Server business is only about 20% of their revenue. It's a lot of money, but it's not enough to save Intel if PC sales get decimated.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Until Intel server share is under serious threat, I would not worry too much about Intel. Even as people move away from desktops to thin clients, Intel powers the cloud. It's only a matter of time before Intel makes serious inroads in mobile as well.

Intel's Server business is only about 20% of their revenue. It's a lot of money, but it's not enough to save Intel if PC sales get decimated.

Why would PC sales get decimated? Those "thin clients" are still full fledged PCs with a constant performance requirement. Specially when you are not running the applications as native code, but rather HTML5(Java) in a browser. Also a lot of the cloud is simply storage or DRM. Cloud is simply a term for where you move servers into a hosting center and store you else local files and mail.

MMOs are cloud applications. Try run Gw2 for example on a thin client

 

[trivik12]

Every Laptop/Desktop/Server powering in my company(probably worth lots of money as we have 23K employees WW) is using Intel. i guess that is true for majority of business WW. I dont see ARM being even considered in 90% of them. So Intel is not going to be impacted by anything to do with gaming market.

If anything gaming market is in a flux as lots of casual gamers have moved on to iPad/iPhone/ and Android tablets/phones. We can see that by subpar sales of Wii U. While FPS focused gamers will buy 720/PS4 there is a ceiling. 150 million consoles over 7-8 years is a small number compared to number of mainstream PC/laptops/servers.

That said I believe Qualcomm to be a credible threat. Snapdragon 600/800 looks good and they are dominating the high end phone market now minus iPhone(even Galaxy S4 is expected to have Snapdragon 600). This clearly means Tegra 4 is in trouble. I am looking forward to HTC One.

It will be good to see Intel release merrifield cpu. I wish they pulled a conroe and pulled in the release date. But its release keeps pushing back.