Question Intel's current woes and the low end of the desktop CPU market

[DAPUNISHER]

When I was mainly building Intel iGPU basic PCs, the Pentium for a good long time was my minimum recommendation just because it could do the job tolerably and was a good bit cheaper than the i3. These days I think it's utter madness to go for anything less than 4c (ignoring atom-type stuff) on a new PC what with Win11's needs,

You would think, but it turns out a 2c/4t is still okay for a daily driver on win11. AMD started selling the retail boxed Athlon 3000g again, with a better cooler. It can even handle some games.

Steve is using it in a ostensibly unsupported board. I had a similar experience, as the 3000g worked in a HP gaming PC that did not have it listed as supported, yet worked perfectly, and I overclocked both CPU and iGPU using Ryzen Master.

 

[gdansk]

N100 is still the bare minimum to be the basic daily driver

It's not bad. I really think ADL-N is sufficient for what most people do with their computers.

But WCL should be so much better. I wonder how they'll chop it for low end. 1+3? 2+2? Unfortunately it will probably be much more expensive due to manufacturing process.

 

[511]

It's not bad. I really think ADL-N is sufficient for what most people do with their computers.

But WCL should be so much better. I wonder how they'll chop it for low end. 1+3? 2+2? Unfortunately it will probably be much more expensive due to manufacturing process.

Not really tbh at least I don't think she it's very cutdown 18A product it's entire focus was cost

 

[hemedans]

Judging by sales clearly not the case. The most popular budget CPU is the one I picked up recently, the Ryzen 5500. I got it for $55 on Prime Day deal. 4.5-4.6GHz all core without unsafe vcore is an easy overclock on a cheap board.

What sales? i3 12100F is around $40 in many markets, even in USA if you look for sales you can get it around $50, perfomance wise it's better than Ryzen 5500 and for some use case like Emulation it can be better than all Am4 cpu.

For Enthuasist they can buy old batch and get Avx512 then pair it with Bclk mobo, you get perfomance better than even i5 12400F and Ryzen 5 5600x,

 

[Joe NYC]

you clearly don't know how expensive ARL is for Intel even after accounting for how bad Intel 7 Cost is

I don't see NVL getting any cheaper.

Best case, if it performs well, it can recover ground lost by ARL in mid to high end of the market, but it does not seem suitable for low end.

 

[gdansk]

it's entire focus was cost

Same for ADL-N.
But they still cut it in half

 

[511]

Same for ADL-N.
But they still cut it in half

Yeah but the easiest way to cut is cut the P core's from 2 -> 0 cause you can't the E cores without killing the cluster

 

[fastandfurious6]

low end cpus were never worth it, any era. celeron = lag fest... nothing justifies so much stuttering that makes machines unusable when the permanent fix is just a few bucks away

there's always amazing products of previous gen which trump low end offerings of current gen


right now just find 8core zen3 5700x/5800x... ~130-150 bucks. you're good to go

wanna go crazy???

5950X for ~250 bucks... 16 full superfast cores. king of value

 

[fastandfurious6]

celeron i3 and the likes: rebadged failures or super cheap to produce and still sold at premium

low end CPU = sadomadochism... cash grab for intel, torture for customers

low cost = your sanity is the product




and a list of best desktop cpus in their eras

P3

Athlon X2

Conroe and 45nm derivatives

Sandy/Ivy bridge (i7 only)

(2013 - 2020 big nothingness: bulldozer & 10nm++++++ lol)

Zen 2/3/4/5/6/7/8

nothing else was ever worth a dime, even for pure business machines

 

[hemedans]

low end cpus were never worth it, any era. celeron = lag fest... nothing justifies so much stuttering that makes machines unusable when the permanent fix is just a few bucks away

there's always amazing products of previous gen which trump low end offerings of current gen


right now just find 8core zen3 5700x/5800x... ~130-150 bucks. you're good to go

wanna go crazy???

5950X for ~250 bucks... 16 full superfast cores. king of value

That used to be the case but not anymore, 12100F is better gaming chip than Ryzen 7 3700x and even day to day usage it will be better, same to lowend Cpu like Ryzen 5 7640H and Core 3 205.

 

[DrMrLordX]

N100 is still the bare minimum to be the basic daily driver

How cheaply can you get one of those nowadays?

That used to be the case but not anymore, 12100F is better gaming chip than Ryzen 7 3700x and even day to day usage it will be better, same to lowend Cpu like Ryzen 5 7640H and Core 3 205.

He didn't suggest a 3700x though.

 

[Khato]

low end cpus were never worth it, any era. celeron = lag fest... nothing justifies so much stuttering that makes machines unusable when the permanent fix is just a few bucks away

While I know full well it's not the intent, the inclusion of 'any era' begs for the counterexample of the almighty Celeron 300A. Just swap the FSB from default to 100MHz and it would meet or beat the top end Pentium II 450 of the time.

 

[fastandfurious6]

While I know full well it's not the intent, the inclusion of 'any era' begs for the counterexample of the almighty Celeron 300A. Just swap the FSB from default to 100MHz and it would meet or beat the top end Pentium II 450 of the time.

very rare exception..... those products are not possible to be made anymore for many reasons

what was the background of that? also many other examples from sandy easy OC to unlocking free gpu pipelines with soldering to reflashing BIOS of far superior card...

 

[hemedans]

He didn't suggest a 3700x though.

I misread that, but even 5700/5800 aren't superior to 12100F when paired with Bclk mobo, at 5.2Ghz it match them in gaming and even surpass them in some tasks, it only lose in multithreaded tasks.

 

[fastandfurious6]

5700/5800 aren't superior to 12100F

literally impossible under any circumstances dare I say even LN2

 

[Thunder 57]

I misread that, but even 5700/5800 aren't superior to 12100F when paired with Bclk mobo, at 5.2Ghz it match them in gaming and even surpass them in some tasks, it only lose in multithreaded tasks.

The 12100f loses to the 5600X in gaming and badly beaten in multithread, let alone a 5700X/5800X. It does better in 1T though. How many mobo's even allow bclk adjustments that are stable at 121MHz? At the point you are better off buying the next higher up CPU most likely.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i3-12100-12100f-review

 

[fastandfurious6]

also on my favorite topic as always..... this image is dense but rewarding! As far as laptops go this is one of the best: vapor chamber, OLED HDR1000, lightest of its class, best keyboard etc

Pounds show that sweet under 1000 number... in USD it's $1260. Steal

8945HX (7950X) + RTX5060

 

[Thunder 57]

also on my favorite topic as always..... this image is dense but rewarding! As far as laptops go this is one of the best: vapor chamber, OLED HDR1000, lightest of its class, best keyboard etc

Pounds show that sweet under 1000 number... in USD it's $1260. Steal

8945HX (7950X) + RTX5060

View attachment 133965

It may be your favorite topic but it's anything but on topic! That being low end desktop CPU's and now we're talking high end laptop CPU's?

Just typing that felt weird. We are now talking about 6 & 8 core Zen 3 CPU's as low end. When they first came out they were impossible to get a hold of for awhile, except the 5800X every now and then because of its poor value. Prices seem to have bottomed out that. The 5600 is value/mid on Amazon, whereas the 5600X costs more than the 5700X currently.

 

[hemedans]

The 12100f loses to the 5600X in gaming and badly beaten in multithread, let alone a 5700X/5800X. It does better in 1T though. How many mobo's even allow bclk adjustments that are stable at 121MHz? At the point you are better off buying the next higher up CPU most likely.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i3-12100-12100f-review

For budget users there is Asrock B760 riptide and Msi mortar series with Ddr4 support, depend with region they go as low as $80.

Techpowerup did review it at 5.2ghz you can find review here

Intel Core i3-12100F Review - 5.2 GHz OC with an Asterisk

Core i3-12100F is the most affordable quad-core Alder Lake CPU from Intel. In our review, we test with DDR4 and DDR5 to see whether it has what it takes to build a lean work PC or cost-efficient gaming machine. Thanks to BCLK overclocking, we even managed to overclock it to 5.2 GHz all-core.

www.techpowerup.com

Difference between it and 5800x was 3-4%, Even at stock there different isnt much to justify paying 3 or 4 times over 12100F.

And that just perfomance, when Gaming it use less than 50W, which is ideal for budget builds, pair it with undervolted gpu like Rx 6600 you have system which use less than 100W and perform well at 1080p.

 

[hemedans]

literally impossible under any circumstances dare I say even LN2

It has better single thread perfomance, even at stock should be able tto surpass them at single thread tasks like browsing, office etc

 

[DAPUNISHER]

What sales?

You wrote enthusiasts, that means retail. Ryzen 5500 has been in the top 5 on Amazon US for months, the 12100f is number 40. Mindfactory the i3 doesn't even chart.

i3 12100F is around $40 in many markets, even in USA if you look for sales you can get it around $50, perfomance wise it's better than Ryzen 5500 and for some use case like Emulation it can be better than all Am4 cpu.

Very cool, but it isn't selling well at any major retail outlet. Which was my entire point.

For Enthuasist they can buy old batch and get Avx512 then pair it with Bclk mobo, you get perfomance better than even i5 12400F and Ryzen 5 5600x,

Neat. That's great it has its niche. But it is even more esoteric; one of the reasons why it's not selling well. The main reason is, gamers don't want a 4c CPU anymore.

 

[Thunder 57]

What sales? i3 12100F is around $40 in many markets, even in USA if you look for sales you can get it around $50, perfomance wise it's better than Ryzen 5500 and for some use case like Emulation it can be better than all Am4 cpu.

For Enthuasist they can buy old batch and get Avx512 then pair it with Bclk mobo, you get perfomance better than even i5 12400F and Ryzen 5 5600x,

I didn't even notice this until I saw @DAPUNISHER quote you but that's just nonsense. Even on eBay you can't find those prices.

For budget users there is Asrock B760 riptide and Msi mortar series with Ddr4 support, depend with region they go as low as $80.

Techpowerup did review it at 5.2ghz you can find review here

Intel Core i3-12100F Review - 5.2 GHz OC with an Asterisk

Core i3-12100F is the most affordable quad-core Alder Lake CPU from Intel. In our review, we test with DDR4 and DDR5 to see whether it has what it takes to build a lean work PC or cost-efficient gaming machine. Thanks to BCLK overclocking, we even managed to overclock it to 5.2 GHz all-core.

www.techpowerup.com

View attachment 133966
Difference between it and 5800x was 3-4%, Even at stock there different isnt much to justify paying 3 or 4 times over 12100F.

And that just perfomance, when Gaming it use less than 50W, which is ideal for budget builds, pair it with undervolted gpu like Rx 6600 you have system which use less than 100W and perform well at 1080p.

This is all garbage. The 5600X is within 2%. 3-4x the price of what? Are you sure you weren't thinking of the 5800X3D?

Also, the 5600X wins plenty in that review as well. What's even more egregious is comparing a 12100 very overclocked with DDR5. Have you seen memory prices lately? Not to mention overclocking via bclk is generally a bad idea especially on a cheap motherboard. And to top it off, you claimed 50W while gaming, well the review you linked said otherwise. It idles higher than that when overclocked (and any other CPU shown at that), while being using more power under load and being less efficient than AMD. This mythical $40 12100f is a poor argument. You would be better off with a 12400f or a 12600 if you need MT performance. No overclocking required.

 

[hemedans]

You wrote enthusiasts, that means retail. Ryzen 5500 has been in the top 5 on Amazon US for months, the 12100f is number 40. Mindfactory the i3 doesn't even chart.

View attachment 133968
View attachment 133969

Very cool, but it isn't selling well at any major retail outlet. Which was my entire point.

Neat. That's great it has its niche. But it is even more esoteric; one of the reasons why it's not selling well. The main reason is, gamers don't want a 4c CPU anymore.

Maybe is Usa, you guys have higher income and you can see there most cpu are not lowend, but other parts of world 12100F sales are off the chart.

In pinduoduo alone it rank 1st for recent sales with over 290K units sold and lifetime 4.5m units, this is just one combo there are other combo but not popular compare to this.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[hemedans]

I didn't even notice this until I saw @DAPUNISHER quote you but that's just nonsense. Even on eBay you can't find those prices.

He was taking about black Friday deal to see how much 12100F cost when it goes in sale just go to slickdeals site then type 12100F you can see plenty of entry around $50.

This is all garbage. The 5600X is within 2%. 3-4x the price of what? Are you sure you weren't thinking of the 5800X3D?

Also, the 5600X wins plenty in that review as well. What's even more egregious is comparing a 12100 very overclocked with DDR5. Have you seen memory prices lately? Not to mention overclocking via bclk is generally a bad idea especially on a cheap motherboard. And to top it off, you claimed 50W while gaming, well the review you linked said otherwise. It idles higher than that when overclocked (and any other CPU shown at that), while being using more power under load and being less efficient than AMD. This mythical $40 12100f is a poor argument. You would be better off with a 12400f or a 12600 if you need MT performance. No overclocking required.

Thats total system power consumption, and what you linked is total system multithreaded power consumption which most of time you won't use in your day to day usage.

This video compare i3 12100F vs 5600X perfomance and power usage when Gaming

You can see there power usage of i3 is less than half of 5600x.

and most people here don't understand what is lowend, 12400F or 12600 would cost twice, use more power, would need better monitor to take advantage of higher fps, need better gpu so that it won't be bottlenecked etc, all those add cost.

 

[Thunder 57]

He was taking about black Friday deal to see how much 12100F cost when it goes in sale just go to slickdeals site then type 12100F you can see plenty of entry around $50.

Thats total system power consumption, and what you linked is total system multithreaded power consumption which most of time you won't use in your day to day usage.

This video compare i3 12100F vs 5600X perfomance and power usage when Gaming

You can see there power usage of i3 is less than half of 5600x.

and most people here don't understand what is lowend, 12400F or 12600 would cost twice, use more power, would need better monitor to take advantage of higher fps, need better gpu so that it won't be bottlenecked etc, all those add cost.

So you want to compare it went it is heavily overclocked when it comes to performance but at stock when comparing power?

And then compare prices only when you can get it at an all time low price? If you want to argue it can be a good value that's one thing. But get your facts straight.