Intelligent Design

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Should intelligent design be taught in science classes, and to what degree?

  • Yes, intelligent design should be taught in science classes and fully explored.

  • Yes, intelligent design has a place in science class, but it should only be mentioned.

  • No opinion / neutral

  • No, intelligent design shouldn't be taught in science class, but it can be mentioned.

  • No, intelligent design does not have a place in science classes.


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Dec 26, 2007
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You can feel free to interpret my posts however you want.

Ok, how about based on content?

Even though I like to throw in some absurdity, there is usually a pretty valid point in there.

Let's find out.

If our current President, whom many believe is one of the smartest we have ever had, believes in intelligent design..

First off, have any facts to support this statement that many believe he is one of the smartest ever?

Secondly, it doesn't matter what people believe regarding his intelligence. People might believe you are an idiot based on your postings, but that doesn't mean you are an idiot.

Finally, assuming people do believe he is one of the smartest and assuming that he actually is one of the smartest, that has no relevance on his expertise in the subject of ID/evolution. He is not an expert in the subject, and how intelligent he is does not change that.

why is so absurd that we might think of teaching people about it?

Because it's not science, so why would we teach it in science class? If there was any shred of scientific proof supporting ID, then it might be a slightly different discussion. There is no proof support ID. Period. None what so ever. When the case of ID went to the courts, the ruling stated that ID=creationism with different names and had no scientific backing supporting it.

Either we shouldn't teach it because it lacks scientific backing, or we shouldn't teach it because a judge ruled it has no scientific basis and is religious in nature thus cannot be a part of the public education system. Take your pick.

If Christianity has influenced our President so much that he feels the need to proclaim it publically that it has heavily influenced his life and thought process then maybe there is something not so absurd about it?

Once again, beliefs are irrelevant. Also, the POTUS religious beliefs have no bearing on if ID should or should taught in schools. POTUS in the past have had slaves, should we teach kids that there is something not so absurd about owning slaves?

If Obama believes in a higher power, then he believes in intelligent design.

No. Just no.

Belief in the Christian religion does NOT mean one believes in ID. Please provide proof that supports this statement that Christian beliefs=belief in ID.

Even if he doesn't believe in an literal interpretation (I doubt most people do) its pretty absurd to think there is a higher being out there who created us, influences us, watches over us, etc but did not have ANYTHING to do with the universe we live in.

So what you're saying here is essentially that in order to believe in ID, you have to believe in a literal interpretations. Show me where the POTUS said he believes in the literal interpretations of the Bible, which it sounds like you say are required to believe in ID.

It's absurd to believe that a "God" being created, influenced, and watches over us; however, it's not absurd to believe that a "God" being had nothing to do with the universe we live in? Think about that for a second. Why is one absurd, but the other isn't? How does that make any rational sense?

What I am having a hard time understanding is that if intelligent design is such a ridiculous idea and so absurd that we can't even mention it in schools, why does the (arguably) smartest man in the history of this country, Barack Obama, believe in it?

Once again, proof of BO's intelligence prior to saying that statement. What are you basing this "smartest man in the history of this country" statement on? Smartest as far as advancing our society? Einstein, Tesla, Oppenheimer, etc have advanced civilation much more than Obama has. Smartest as far as IQ? Do you even know his IQ? Assuming you do, IQ scores are generally not seen as definitive. There are different scores based on different tests. There are different "types" of intelligence. A savant will be a genius on a subject (i.e. high IQ for that subject), but be considered mentally handicapped.

Also, once again, his intelligence has nothing to do with the validity of his beliefs, nor do they have any relevance on what should be taught in a scientific classroom.

He claims he is a Christian. If we take him at his word then clearly he believes in intelligent design.

When has he said he believes in ID? Being Christian does not equate to belief in ID.

So either our President is a moron, a liar, or maybe ID is something that if its important enough that the most intelligent person alive believes, we should look into teaching our kids about it?

Repeating the same thing over and over does not give it any more validity than the first time you stated it. So, in summary (I'm waiting proof for all of these):

-Belief in Christianity does not equate to belief in ID
-The POTUS beliefs do not give validity to their being taught in public schools
-The POTUS intelligence has no relevance on the subject of ID/evolution being taught in public schools as he is not an expert.
-ID has been shown to be a relabel of creationism which is religious in nature, and therefore cannot be taught in the public school system.
-Federal judge ruled that ID has no scientific basis
-The POTUS (AFAIK) has never said he believes in ID

You know what? Instead of even having you waste your time trying to prove yourself correct, lets just use your own arguements to prove that ID is not science and does NOT belong in any public science class room. You have stated multiple times (in above quotes) that because BO is so intelligent, we should listen to him. Here is a quote from Obama regarding ID :

"I'm a Christian, and I believe in parents being able to provide children with religious instruction without interference from the state. But I also believe our schools are there to teach worldly knowledge and science. I believe in evolution, and I believe there's a difference between science and faith. That doesn't make faith any less important than science. It just means they're two different things. And I think it's a mistake to try to cloud the teaching of science with theories that frankly don't hold up to scientific inquiry."

Source- http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/2008/03/obama_on_id.php

So, from that one quote we can eliminate just about all of your arguements using your own logic.

Obama = believes in Christian beliefs
Obama != believe in ID
Obama != believe ID should be taught in schools
Obama = belief that ID has no scientific backing
Obama = believes that ID clouds the teaching of science

So, if Obama is the smartest man this country has ever had and we should listen to him because of this as you proclaim, then you must agree that ID has no place in schools or any scientific arena. You also must agree then that religious based ideas (i.e. ID) do NOT belong in any classroom, even if they are presented as "possible alternatives."
 
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Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
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Certainly I'm making assumptions about Barack Hussein Obama's beliefs. But if we are to take him at his word, that he is a Christian, then.. by definition.. he should believe in intelligent design. If he doesn't, then he is lying about being a Christian. Which I suppose is possible as well.

Concerning his intelligence, I can only go by what the mainstream media tells me. They repeatedly say he is one of the smartest people to ever walk the planet. Ok, I am embellishing a little bit, but not much.. So again, either the media is lying and cheerleading or he really is intelligent.

I never made any claims about BHO's belief though that ID should be taught in schools or its effect on science. I'm saying that if Christianity has influenced our President to the degree he says, and intelligent design is certainly a part of that belief (Unless he is lying about it) then its certainly something to consider teaching in school is it not? Maybe adding intelligent design to classroom discussions will help influence the next Barack Obama to become President.. maybe even a WOMAN (If the Democrats don't shut that down again).
 

MacFatty

Member
Aug 31, 2010
72
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Concerning his intelligence, I can only go by what the mainstream media tells me. They repeatedly say he is one of the smartest people to ever walk the planet. Ok, I am embellishing a little bit, but not much.. So again, either the media is lying and cheerleading or he really is intelligent.

Hmm...are you serious?
I'm assuming since the mainstream media has told you how smart the President is, you are watching CNN? I'm not saying the President is stupid, because I don't believe someone could get elected to that high of a position without some intelligence.
Watch/listen to a little FOX. You'll get completely different ideas about the President's intelligence. If you are relying on the media for your information, you are and always will be misinformed.
Here is an idea for you, which will get you far in life, research both sides of an argument, and then come to your own decisions. Try not to be a sheep, there are far too many in this world.
 

FTM0305

Member
Aug 19, 2010
142
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Hmm...are you serious?
I'm assuming since the mainstream media has told you how smart the President is, you are watching CNN? I'm not saying the President is stupid, because I don't believe someone could get elected to that high of a position without some intelligence.
Watch/listen to a little FOX. You'll get completely different ideas about the President's intelligence. If you are relying on the media for your information, you are and always will be misinformed.
Here is an idea for you, which will get you far in life, research both sides of an argument, and then come to your own decisions. Try not to be a sheep, there are far too many in this world.

someone's been rick-rolled
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,353
1,862
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Certainly I'm making assumptions about Barack Hussein Obama's beliefs. But if we are to take him at his word, that he is a Christian, then.. by definition.. he should believe in intelligent design.

Umm ...
What the hell are you smoking?

To be Christian means you have to be a monotheist who believes that "god" decided to have a son, but, he wanted his son to be human, and then, since humans did naughty things, he allowed them to kill his son, then, he made his some come back from the dead, afterwards, his son floated up into the sky.

Pretty much anybody who believes in that, is christian.
Christianity does not require word for word literal interpretation of their holy books.

If it did, then many Christians would no longer be considered Christians, since they choose reality over fantasy and therefore, are not capable of deluding themselves into believing the earth is 6000 years old and was created in 7 days.