Intel Will Pay Rival Chipmaker AMD $1.25 Billion to Settle All Legal Disputes

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Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
Dude.. the PHII @ launch was full of Bugs.

Its a decient cpu now... but when it launched on the first revision off the sorry 780G chipset it failed horribly.

And YES i had a OG PHII, it was CRAP.

After the 790G, + a few more stepping upgrades, the PHII is now what it is.

U cant say the PHII today is the same as the one that was first out.

If AMD was advancing... why is the gap between AMD vs Intel getting LARGER?
I dont see AMD closing that gap.

And whats wrong with me telling AMD to put out or shut up?
I ALWAYS telll intel that... Dayam delays...

Intel delays are even more BS.
Because Intel at least has a fully working chip, but there just too cheap to release it on the market.
And they blame it on BS reasons.. like not enough tweeks in FAB process... or some other things they can push launch off for.

Im not nice to any vendor period.

the original Phenom was full of bugs, not Phenom II

Your PII was CRAP? Mine is very good and so are most.

Intel is advancing at much greater pace, duh. It's a easy one, nobody's saying the opposite.

Give AMD time, they're just getting out of their own mess. Hopefully they'll release a much better cpu next round.

Aigo, Intel is better right now, nobody's saying it is not but do you really need to call Phenom II CRAP? when in fact it is a decent cpu?
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,128
3,654
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the original Phenom was full of bugs, not Phenom II

Aigo, Intel is better right now, nobody's saying it is not but do you really need to call Phenom II CRAP? when in fact it is a decent cpu?

I appologize..

I meant the Original PH. The X4 for short.

But i thought they were called PHII as well no?

The new PHII are great budget machines.. you can quote me on that.
The Original Phenoms were CRAP... and you can also quote me on that too.

And yes mine was CRAP. :\
I couldnt overclock it worth dog dookie, it ran slightly hot, and my E8500 C2D not C2Q, system was running circles around it.
 
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PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
1,848
13
81
Original Phenoms failed horribly, Phenom II didn't. x4 940 and x4 810 were great (remember, this was before i7 really hit the field).
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,393
16,236
136
Original Phenoms failed horribly, Phenom II didn't. x4 940 and x4 810 were great (remember, this was before i7 really hit the field).

They still can't beat the Intel procs before the I7/I5, but in the budget category, they are OK.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,128
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Original Phenoms failed horribly, Phenom II didn't. x4 940 and x4 810 were great (remember, this was before i7 really hit the field).

Yeah.. i appolgize on that broad statement.

I havent followed AMD Tech up close, so i thought they were all named PHII.

I meant the ORIGINAL Phenom.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,552
136
One important question that I had that hasn't been answered - is AMD's x86 license (the NEW license) considered to be transferrable, in case some other company (perhaps NVidia?) buys out AMD?

That might have been a worthwhile provision to put into the agreement. It makes AMD all that more valuable to be acquired. If it's not transferrable, that just means a long, slow death, or perhaps a lingering limbo existance, for AMD.

Doubtful. This just loosens up the licensing terms to allow AMD to choose whatever fab they want to manufacture their CPU's in. Previously it had to be an AMD owned fab or something like that.

I wouldn't say this is a long slow death for AMD, their main losses this year seems to be stemming from operating a fab and overpaying for ATI. I think they can survive with just a 1/4 share of the market. They do need to be more competitive than they have been recently though.

NVidia wouldn't buy AMD. It might create a monopoly on the video card industry.

There's two ways you can argue this. One is that AMD/ATI only has 20% of the GPU market and nVidia only has 25% of the market while Intel has the other 50%. So I wouldn't just say monopoly out of the blue. The other is of course, AMD has 1/3 of the discrete GPU market and nVidia the other 2/3 so it'd create a monopoly.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Doubtful. This just loosens up the licensing terms to allow AMD to choose whatever fab they want to manufacture their CPU's in. Previously it had to be an AMD owned fab or something like that.

I wouldn't say this is a long slow death for AMD, their main losses this year seems to be stemming from operating a fab and overpaying for ATI. I think they can survive with just a 1/4 share of the market. They do need to be more competitive than they have been recently though.



There's two ways you can argue this. One is that AMD/ATI only has 20% of the GPU market and nVidia only has 25% of the market while Intel has the other 50%. So I wouldn't just say monopoly out of the blue. The other is of course, AMD has 1/3 of the discrete GPU market and nVidia the other 2/3 so it'd create a monopoly.


The discreet market is 2:1 nV cards, so i'm sure the regulators would have a problem with that.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
Intel shall not include any Artificial Performance Impairment in any Intel product or require any Third Party to include an Artificial Performance Impairment in the Third Party’s product. As used in this Section 2.3, “ Artificial Performance Impairment ” means an affirmative engineering or design action by Intel (but not a failure to act) that (i) degrades the performance or operation of a Specified AMD product, (ii) is not a consequence of an Intel Product Benefit and (iii) is made intentionally to degrade the performance or operation of a Specified AMD Product. For purposes of this Section 2.3, “ Product Benefit ” shall mean any benefit, advantage, or improvement in terms of performance, operation, price, cost, manufacturability, reliability, compatibility, or ability to operate or enhance the operation of another product.

Is this part to protect against Intel purposely crippling AMD graphics cards on an Intel based system? I can't think of any other situations where AMD and Intel hardware would be coexisting on the same machine.
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,571
3
71
Is this part to protect against Intel purposely crippling AMD graphics cards on an Intel based system? I can't think of any other situations where AMD and Intel hardware would be coexisting on the same machine.

I think it's more for the 3rd party reference (3dmark or something?) where a program may run differently depending on what the platform is. I can see that happening if some routine is changed to take advantage of an Intel optimization that doesn't exist on an AMD chip which is why (ii) is there.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
I think AMD made out good, real good. They have new agreements, no more lawsuits, and in less than 30 days they get 1.25 billion. I don't think people realize how much those agreements are worth. This smells like an early debut of Bulldozer.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
This smells like an early debut of Bulldozer
I want Bulldozer here earlier as well. But how could that possibly be the case? Was Bulldozer delayed due to financial reasons? Or due to the threat of having the license revoked? By my understanding, those weren't a factor, so it seems unlikely.

However, another way of looking at it might be that the lack of money / R&D funds is probably a bottleneck in BD development? Is that even possible? This late in the development, would a sudden injection of cash lead to faster deployment? I know that might seem a common sense way to approach things (more cash on the problem = faster deployment) but that isn't always the case - for example, in a software development project, spending more cash to hire more developers in the middle of a project that's behind schedule doesnt make a project finish faster, it makes the project later.

I'd say let's ask IDC but I'm almost half-afraid already since he's spelled doom for both companies for very different reasons (in a very tongue-in-cheek way, AMD is doomed for sucking, while Intel is doomed for being too awesome for the competition. What a world!) :)
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Does anybody know if the patent licensing is just CPU IP, or does it cover process technology also?

Not likely going to cover process technology, those are crown jewels which are usually transferred thru industrial espionage, mystery and intrigue. Mostly just thru espionage.

One important question that I had that hasn't been answered - is AMD's x86 license (the NEW license) considered to be transferrable, in case some other company (perhaps NVidia?) buys out AMD?

That might have been a worthwhile provision to put into the agreement. It makes AMD all that more valuable to be acquired. If it's not transferrable, that just means a long, slow death, or perhaps a lingering limbo existance, for AMD.

No doubt AMD would have wanted as many restrictions as possible eliminated whereas Intel would have wanted as many restrictions as possible to be invoked. I don't see AMD prioritizing the elimination of this particular restriction over other the other restrictions that have been eliminated (ability to use foundries).

I want Bulldozer here earlier as well. But how could that possibly be the case? Was Bulldozer delayed due to financial reasons? Or due to the threat of having the license revoked? By my understanding, those weren't a factor, so it seems unlikely.

However, another way of looking at it might be that the lack of money / R&D funds is probably a bottleneck in BD development? Is that even possible? This late in the development, would a sudden injection of cash lead to faster deployment? I know that might seem a common sense way to approach things (more cash on the problem = faster deployment) but that isn't always the case - for example, in a software development project, spending more cash to hire more developers in the middle of a project that's behind schedule doesnt make a project finish faster, it makes the project later.

I'd say let's ask IDC but I'm almost half-afraid already since he's spelled doom for both companies for very different reasons (in a very tongue-in-cheek way, AMD is doomed for sucking, while Intel is doomed for being too awesome for the competition. What a world!) :)

Cash always helps, a cash injection right now into bulldozer could help speed things up by no more than 4-6 months tops though, and even then the burn rate on that cash would be rather high.

However it is rather unlikely that AMD would elect to do that, they have publicly stated that their short-term and long-term R&D budget is targeting <23% revenue. If they were to dump a bunch of cash into BD that percentage would sky-rocket like Japan's debt as a percentage of their GDP and you would see Dirk foisted upon his own petard. (that is to say he'd be bounced at the next board of directors meetings for failing to set institutional investor expectations appropriately)

No, rather AMD management is stuck in a hard-spot if they wish to boost R&D spending as a means to enhance their chances of developing ever more competitive products. In order to do that they need to increase revenue proportionately such that they can increase R&D spending without increasing the revenue-percentage footprint it occupies on the balance sheet.

And how do you raise revenue? Two ways - organic growth and M&A.

Organic growth isn't going to occur in any dramatic fashion for AMD so long as their competition is Intel. They will occupy the sub-20% marketshare forever and ever. So I'd be looking for Dirk to be pursuing some M&A activity with their new found cash in the coffers over the next 3-6 months as they try and "buy revenue" such that expanding the R&D budget doesn't violate the traditional "must keep R&D under 25% of revenue" mantra that all american companies recite 5 time before going to bed every night.

Intel delays are even more BS.
Because Intel at least has a fully working chip, but there just too cheap to release it on the market.
And they blame it on BS reasons.. like not enough tweeks in FAB process... or some other things they can push launch off for.

Aigo, Intel is a "gross-margins" company. They are not a cpu, graphics ror SSD company. They manufacture gross margins and their main product is INTC. They will only do things that they believe will improve the value of their main product, and wall street has repeatedly affirmed for them that the value of the their product, INTC, is tightly coupled to the gross margins they engineer and manufacture in selling all that other crap to us consumers.

Intel could have had the option of selling gulftown 6yrs ago for all the money they have in their bank account, the fact they've taken their sweet time waiting this long to get to even this point in the release timeline has everything to do with ensuring they can maximize gross margins when they finally do bring it to market.

You can gloss over the cold-hard borg-like beauty of all that and just label it as "BS" if you like but I really don't see it like that at all. If Intel can't see the gross margins story in the product then they aren't going to pursue putting it on the market until they see there way to it. Wallstreet will punish them mercilessly if they do otherwise.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Is this figurative or do you mean they quite literally had the technology to do so?

A little of both...they quite literally had the cash 12-15 yrs ago to set into motion the node cadence that would have been required for them to have released gulftown caliber cpu's on 32nm caliber process technology 6 yrs ago.

It would have resulted in Intel becoming a non-profit company but it would have been well within Intel's financial means to do it.

(kind of analogous to the US putting Armstrong on the moon 40yrs ago...feasible only because of the US's immense wealth and technical capabilities at the time but most certainly not doable if profit margins were a consideration)
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,128
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IDC...

its not nice to release ES cpu's to your privillaged tho, and hold back the delay.

Thats what im saying.

These chips were able to release as promised the end of this year.
Intel had the design, the fabs' everything.

But guess what... they want the i5 and i7's to have a bit more light b4 they stomp it with an i9.

:\

After this it gives them even a bigger excuse to delay 32nm.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
True, if ever the case for the value of competition in the marketplace needed to be made one only has to look at the consumer cpu market for all their pointers. The reason Intel has the luxury of biding their time so as to further maximize their gross margins is certainly more or less entirely attributable to the AMD's lack of fielding a cpu capable of intruding on those higher-end ASPs.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
5,014
1,614
136
It might also be the fact that there is no point releasing it so soon when the competition is so far behind. And how many applications really tax the current i7?
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
It might also be the fact that there is no point releasing it so soon when the competition is so far behind.
Agree. Business common sense here to maximize profits.

And how many applications really tax the current i7?
Disagree. Not really a factor in delaying tech. You know the saying: "Build it and they will come." There are fields that would appreciate any and all available processing power.
 

deputc26

Senior member
Nov 7, 2008
548
1
76
I want Bulldozer here earlier as well. But how could that possibly be the case? Was Bulldozer delayed due to financial reasons? Or due to the threat of having the license revoked? By my understanding, those weren't a factor, so it seems unlikely.

However, another way of looking at it might be that the lack of money / R&D funds is probably a bottleneck in BD development? Is that even possible? This late in the development, would a sudden injection of cash lead to faster deployment? I know that might seem a common sense way to approach things (more cash on the problem = faster deployment) but that isn't always the case - for example, in a software development project, spending more cash to hire more developers in the middle of a project that's behind schedule doesnt make a project finish faster, it makes the project later.

I'd say let's ask IDC but I'm almost half-afraid already since he's spelled doom for both companies for very different reasons (in a very tongue-in-cheek way, AMD is doomed for sucking, while Intel is doomed for being too awesome for the competition. What a world!) :)

Thanks for your input jvroig I was thinking the same thing and I've come to appreciate your posts since you joined up. I doubt extra cash could help hasten BDs time to market as you said because the development teams/system are already set up and changing that system in any way would likely be disruptive and result in at least short-term inefficiency.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
The days of personal inspiration making a critical difference are long, long, long since passed. You can have a Wally whose lack of performing up to par can cause a critical delay which then propagates throughout the project but there are no Asok's with mental telepathy who can save the company by working over the weekend.

Node development is now about risk-mitigation (a management determined logic-tree) and not so much about generating opportunity or maximizing entitlement.

I don't think that's entirely true. There may not be single opportunities for "critical differences", but a few Asok's can get you a few 1&#37; differences, and those 1%s add up pretty quickly. Of course, a few Wally's can keep the Asok's busy putting out fires instead of innovating ;). This opinion isn't based on manufacturing processes, because I don't know anything about them, but I assume it's still engineering and therefore similar to things I understand.

edit: since when am I an elite member?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Does that mean people on this forum will finally stop defending Intel at every turn?

This is a clear admission of guilt, if nothing else.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Does that mean people on this forum will finally stop defending Intel at every turn?

This is a clear admission of guilt, if nothing else.

No, it's business risk mitigation. If it was an admission of guilt AMD would be taking out full page headlines in the Times, instead of posting a blog entry about "peace".