Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[epsilon84]

Yes, generally a new chipset support at least two gens of core processors. The Z370 might be the only exception I can think of in recent times.

You forgot Z270 too, unless you mean backwards compatibility? But Skylake and Kabylake are pretty much the same chips, baring stock clockspeed differences. Pretty much like the 4770K/4790K comparison

 

[epsilon84]

I believe you are thinking of Intel 8 series chipsets such as z87. 8 series chipsets only supported Haswell and Haswell Refresh. Broadwell did not officially support those chipsets.

https://ark.intel.com/products/88040/Intel-Core-i7-5775C-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz

If you go down to compatible products only z97 and h97 chipsets are listed as supported.

Actually, you are correct, I mistook the Z97 for Z87 (which was launched with Haswell) my memory is admittedly a bit hazy with the older Intel chipsets.

 

[R0H1T]

You forgot Z270 too, unless you mean backwards compatibility? But Skylake and Kabylake are pretty much the same chips, baring stock clockspeed differences. Pretty much like the 4770K/4790K comparison

Yes that, however not everyone upgrades their processor & still uses the same old board, even if compatible. So for anyone who wants to stay on 6 cores & doesn't want to wait for Z390 this is the best option for now.

 

[arandomguy]

Actually, you are correct, I mistook the Z97 for Z87 (which was launched with Haswell) my memory is admittedly a bit hazy with the older Intel chipsets.

Just to add 7 series chipsets launched with Ivybridge had no upgrade path as well.

Really every time Intel has launched a new chipset alongside an uarch update (tick or equivalent such as Ivybridge, Kabylake) so far that chipset has had no upgrade path. Coffeelake and z370 would actually continue this trend if true.

Only chipsets launched for tocks (Nehalem, Sandybridge, Haswell, Skylake) so far have had upgrade paths at least at least in terms of of when they switched to the Core I series branding.

 

[eddman]

You forgot Z270 too, unless you mean backwards compatibility?

Historically intel's second chipset iteration of the same socket did not support the next gen CPUs simply because the socket changed.

Z270 is second, but since CFL uses 1151 too, I was hoping at least 200 series boards would be compatible. I don't know if intel's claim of "not adequate power delivery" is the whole story or they'd also like to get on the good side of mainboard makers.

Just to add 7 series chipsets launched with Ivybridge had no upgrade path as well.

Really every time Intel has launched a new chipset alongside an uarch update (tick or equivalent such as Ivybridge, Kabylake) so far that chipset has had no upgrade path. Coffeelake and z370 would actually continue this trend if true.

Only chipsets launched for tocks (Nehalem, Sandybridge, Haswell, Skylake) so far have had upgrade paths at least at least in terms of of when they switched to the Core I series branding.

Well, yes, obviously you cannot upgrade if the socket is different but we've always had an upgrade path on the same sockets.

1155 / 6 series (P67, Z68, etc.): support for Sandy and Ivy bridge
1150 / 8 series (Z87, etc.): support for Haswell and Haswell refresh (Broadwell basically came so late that main desktop parts got canceled and the two released parts weren't worth it.)
1151 / 100 series (Z170, etc.): support for Sky and Kaby lake

 

[elhefegaming]

historically, all chipsets supported at LEAST 2 gens of cpus, even if it was backwards compatibility right?
Z370 would be different as it would only support 8xxx cpus

 

[eddman]

But historically, all chipsets supported at LEAST 2 gens of cpus, even if it was backwards compatibility right?
Z370 would be different as it would only support 8xxx cpus

Umm, that's exactly what I wrote. Z370 is the third chipset iteration on the same socket which did not happen in recent history. This is basically uncharted territory. Still, not happy that 100 or at least 200 series do not support CFL.

I wonder why it does not support SKL and KBL though. BIOS not ready or some kind of HW incompatibility?

EDIT: Oh, I get what you mean now; supporting the previous gen. Yea, that part is odd with Z370.

 

[elhefegaming]

EDIT: Oh, I get what you mean now; supporting the previous gen. Yea, that part is odd with Z370.

Exactly.
You're right, this is indeed uncharted territory, specially if Z390 is going to support both 8xxx and 9xxx (or so they say) then I see no reason whatsoever for z370 just supporting 8xxx

We'll see what happens, I know i'm getting z370 anyway, not sure on the CPU yet.

 

[eddman]

Exactly.
You're right, this is indeed uncharted territory, specially if Z390 is going to support both 8xxx and 9xxx (or so they say) then I see no reason whatsoever for z370 just supporting 8xxx

We'll see what happens, I know i'm getting z370 anyway, not sure on the CPU yet.

I'll reply in the CFL thread.

 

[coffeeblues]

None of the resellers or distributors even have a place-holder for these parts. Part of the reason I was asking.

I believe this is the first 7980x retail in stock: https://www.caseking.de/en/intel-core-i9-7980xe-2-6-ghz-skylake-x-sockel-2066-boxed-hpit-427.html

7960x is also there: https://www.caseking.de/en/intel-core-i9-7960x-2-8-ghz-skylake-x-sockel-2066-boxed-hpit-429.html

There are more choices for 7940x and 7960x, 7980x is still catching up.

 

[LTC8K6]

Looks like the 7940X is the sweet spot.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Performance-Core-i9-7940X-7960X-7980XE-1034/

 

[eddman]

Looks like the 7940X is the sweet spot.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Performance-Core-i9-7940X-7960X-7980XE-1034/

That's just one program though. Need many more to draw a definite conclusion.

EDIT: I just noticed their other non-adobe tests. 7940 does seem to be the best price/perf choice among skylake-X parts, at least based on these tests.

 

[dullard]

Looks like the 7940X is the sweet spot.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Performance-Core-i9-7940X-7960X-7980XE-1034/

Pretty much what we predicted (https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-skylake-kaby-lake.2428363/page-560#post-39014603). The 14 core is the way to go for HEDT, unless you need 18 cores (this test didn't need 18 cores). The 12 core model was outpaced by the cheaper 10 core model in many of their tests, since the 12 core chip has lower clock speeds. Thus the 7920X should be avoided like the plague.

 

[crashtech]

For someone willing to utilize the unlocked nature of these parts, the scaling should be fairly linear with core count, should it not, say for instance if all CPUs were locked at 4.4GHz? Perhaps the 12-core part suffers merely from an unfortunate selection of Turbo bins...?

 

[coffeeblues]

Looks like the 7940X is the sweet spot.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-Performance-Core-i9-7940X-7960X-7980XE-1034/

There are 8 test articles on https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php but yeah, most money doesn't always get the top result.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Who says Z390 will be compatibility with IceLake? That's pure speculation.

https://hothardware.com/news/intel-z390-chipset-h2-2018-8-core-16-thread-enthusiast-cpus

Take it for what it's worth. Seems legit though. Also it appears the Icelake may not be a radical departure from Skylake/Kabylake/Icelake cores, so it's conceivable that LGA1511 may have enough life in it for 8c/16t Icelake.

Plus, this is hardware, if you "wait for the right moment" you'll never be done.

Not true. People who got Sandy Bridge hit a pretty big jackpot, not to speak of AMD users who held out for Summit Ridge.

I'm not even taking into account people with AMD rigs as I consider that for them to switch to intel is ALWAYS good

2016 called. They want their paradigm back.

Haswell / Z97 was a one off platform as well, the 4770K still sold well despite no obvious upgrade path (4790K doesn't really count as its essentially a speed bump)

Corrections aside, you've sort of made my point for me. Z390 may well be what Z97 was: an actually-upgradeable platform, which is pretty rare for Intel.

I think enthusiasts will still embrace Z370 because it will be the fastest mainstream Intel platform for the next year... what else are enthusiasts supposed to buy for the next 12 months? X299? Z390 is realistically a year away probably, 2H 2018 doesn't mean it's going to release on July 1st, technically Intel could release it on Dec 31 and it would still count as 2H 2018.

If Z390 isn't launching until Dec 2018, then it's almost inevitable that it supports Icelake.

 

[elhefegaming]

Not true. People who got Sandy Bridge hit a pretty big jackpot, not to speak of AMD users who held out for Summit Ridge.

They (we) had no way to know that. That's the point.
They (we) didn't buy sandy because they knew that the next one was not going to be as much of an improvement.
You buy what you need, with maybe an idea of what could happen in the future but that's pretty much it. If you wait until the "next one" you never buy.

2016 called. They want their paradigm back.

I think Oct5 is gonna call you

 

[IntelUser2000]

https://hothardware.com/news/intel-z390-chipset-h2-2018-8-core-16-thread-enthusiast-cpus

Take it for what it's worth. Seems legit though. Also it appears the Icelake may not be a radical departure from Skylake/Kabylake/Icelake cores, so it's conceivable that LGA1511 may have enough life in it for 8c/16t Icelake.

High chance its not Icelake though. We are mostly looking at 8 core Coffeelake. At this point Icelake will be late Q4 with Core Ms(best case scenario), and volume ramp not happening until Q2 2019.

They (we) had no way to know that. That's the point.
They (we) didn't buy sandy because they knew that the next one was not going to be as much of an improvement.

No, we bought Sandy Bridge because IT was a big improvement. Vast majority of people that didn't get Sandy Bridge was only because they didn't need it. Also 2011(Sandy Bridge year) was when their revenue increased quite a bit so lot of people thought it was worth it too. That year was also when I saw a documentary in a third world country about poor pay and living conditions and seeing a 2nd Gen Core(Sandy Bridge) desktop system in their house.

That's when you know they hit the ball out of the park!

For those that wait for the "optimal" chip to upgrade have way too much free time.

 

[Timmah!]

For someone willing to utilize the unlocked nature of these parts, the scaling should be fairly linear with core count, should it not, say for instance if all CPUs were locked at 4.4GHz? Perhaps the 12-core part suffers merely from an unfortunate selection of Turbo bins...?

Thats exactly it.

Additionally, there is no point in judging these CPUs based on apps like Premiere Pro, which are not heavily multithreaded. Pretty sure 7920x works as expected in relation to its position in the SKL-X line-up in all the apps, which can use all its cores.

 

[dullard]

Thats exactly it.

Additionally, there is no point in judging these CPUs based on apps like Premiere Pro, which are not heavily multithreaded. Pretty sure 7920x works as expected in relation to its position in the SKL-X line-up in all the apps, which can use all its cores.

Coffeeblues posted 8 different programs with benchmarks: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-skylake-kaby-lake.2428363/page-660#post-39093344

Arnold for Maya: 12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core
Premier Pro: 10 core beat the 12 core in most tests
After Effects: 10 core beat the 12 core in all tests
Cinema 4D (Cinebench): 12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core
Photoshop: 10 core beat the 12 core in all tests
Lightroom: 10 core beat the 12 core in all tests
V-Ray:12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core
KeyShot: 12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core

Basically, get the 10 core or the 14 core. The 12 core chip never won. This is only because the 12 core version is where Intel dumps the chips that run hotter and thus have to use a lower clock speed. Since the system price is nearly the same, I would just get the 14 core chip if I was in that market.

 

[Timmah!]

Coffeeblues posted 8 different programs with benchmarks: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-skylake-kaby-lake.2428363/page-660#post-39093344

Arnold for Maya: 12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core
Premier Pro: 10 core beat the 12 core in most tests
After Effects: 10 core beat the 12 core in all tests
Cinema 4D (Cinebench): 12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core
Photoshop: 10 core beat the 12 core in all tests
Lightroom: 10 core beat the 12 core in all tests
V-Ray:12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core
KeyShot: 12 core was right in the middle of 10 core and 14 core

Basically, get the 10 core or the 14 core. The 12 core chip never won. This is only because the 12 core version is where Intel dumps the chips that run hotter and thus have to use a lower clock speed. Since the system price is nearly the same, I would just get the 14 core chip if I was in that market.

As i said, it performs as expected. Better than 7900x when cores matters, worse than 7900x when clocks matter. Ofc 7940x is even faster. Its another 200 more expensive too. If someone cant or does not want to spend the 7940x cost on CPU, the 7920x is a respectable choice.

BTW, i am gonna get 7940x But cause its the best of the three from my POV and 7960x/80xe are above my resources. If it was however between 7920x and 7900x, i would get 7920x.

 

[Arachnotronic]

As i said, it performs as expected. Better than 7900x when cores matters, worse than 7900x when clocks matter. Ofc 7940x is even faster. Its another 200 more expensive too. If someone cant or does not want to spend the 7940x cost on CPU, the 7920x is a respectable choice.

BTW, i am gonna get 7940x But cause its the best of the three from my POV and 7960x/80xe are above my resources. If it was however between 7920x and 7900x, i would get 7920x.

7940X is a surprisingly nice chip. With good cooling and overclocked, it should be fairly well balanced.

 

[crashtech]

...This is only because the 12 core version is where Intel dumps the chips that run hotter and thus have to use a lower clock speed...

That's an interesting assertion, is this your own theory, or is there a link that you might share?

 

[eddman]

That's an interesting assertion, is this your own theory, or is there a link that you might share?

It's common knowledge regrading dies and is almost always the case. The best HCC dies become 7980XEs and worst ones become 7920Xs.

 

[DrMrLordX]

High chance its not Icelake though. We are mostly looking at 8 core Coffeelake. At this point Icelake will be late Q4 with Core Ms(best case scenario), and volume ramp not happening until Q2 2019.

So Intel is going to coast on Coffeelake on the mainstream desktop until Q2 2019? The 8c part could be interesting, but . . .

They (we) had no way to know that. That's the point.

Sure they did, just like people could tell when they were getting a huge IPC/performance bump when moving from Presler/Cedar Mill to Conroe. The performance gain was massive, and the overclocking headroom was amazing. How could you NOT know you were in for a historic improvement?

The performance delta between Nehalem and Sandy Bridge wasn't as big, but do remember that most Nehalem users were stuck at 4 GHz and lower, while Sandy was getting people 5 GHz, better IPC, and some other nifty stuff. For anyone who dared to look, it was a big deal.

Whenever you get that kind of a performance boost, it's usually safe to assume that your purchase will last you a good long while. Conroe and Sandy Bridge prove that.

I think Oct5 is gonna call you

Not really. The days of AMD being Intel's whipping boy are over. No more 9590 vs 7700k. 220W CPU CPU loses to 91W CPU in every single possible benchmark. FX won at exactly nothing. It was pathetic.