Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Dayman1225]

I think they are correct because this is the only explanation how Intel is able to release a Cannonlake SKU in early 2018.

You say this and offer no explanation to why, care to expand on this?

 

[mikk]

You say this and offer no explanation to why, care to expand on this?

Because in older Roadmaps Cannonlake was scheduled for mid 2018, all with GPU. Intels only chance will be an low volume SKU with disabled GPU. And low volume because no mobile OEM notebook maker will choose such 2+0 SKU.

 

[dullard]

Because in older Roadmaps Cannonlake was scheduled for mid 2018, all with GPU. Intels only chance will be an low volume SKU with disabled GPU. And low volume because no mobile OEM notebook maker will choose such 2+0 SKU.

Which older roadmaps?

This roadmap (posted by you by the way) from Sept 2016 puts Cannonlake at the very end of 2017:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-coffee-lake-and-cannonlake-in-h2-2017-icelake-in-2018-digitimes.2485480/#post-38464586

 

[Dayman1225]

Looks like both feature GT2, which is IGPU.

 

[LTC8K6]

Looks like both feature GT2, which is IGPU.

I think the gist is that the gpu is faulty?

 

[Dayman1225]

I think the gist is that the gpu is faulty?

I don't see how Intel could mess that one up, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[jpiniero]

I think the gist is that the gpu is faulty?

I don't think the IGP is faulty; it's just that yields are so bad. The IGP is most of the die.

 

[mikk]

Which older roadmaps?

This roadmap (posted by you by the way) from Sept 2016 puts Cannonlake at the very end of 2017:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-coffee-lake-and-cannonlake-in-h2-2017-icelake-in-2018-digitimes.2485480/#post-38464586

A different much newer Roadmap.

 

[Glo.]

How possible is it that Intel thought that they might need something to compete with Ryzen lineup, and will propose in early 2018 lineup like this:

Core i3 - 4C/4T CPUs, to compete with Ryzen 3.
Core i5 - 4C/8T, 6C/6T CPUs to compete with Ryzen 5 lineup.
Core i7 - 6C/12T CPUs to compete with Ryzen 7 lineup?

 

[Dayman1225]

I don't think we'll see 4/8 I5s, the I5 8300 is confirmed to be a 6/6 IIRC, otherwise that seems sound.

 

[dullard]

A different much newer Roadmap.

Do you mind showing us that roadmap? I'm searching and coming up with this:
Jan 2017: "This week Intel confirmed that we will see the first 10nm processors show up in PCs by the end of this year" https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/intel-confirms-10nm-cannon-lake-still-coming-2017/

June 2017:"its 10-nanometer Cannon Lake architecture is still "on track" for a release this year" https://hothardware.com/news/intel-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-shipping-this-year-ice-lake-taped-out#wrYZOUlK2wztgPks.99

So, which older roadmap, that is newer than Sept 2016, and doesn't include Jan 2017 or June 2017 are you speaking about?

 

[maddie]

I don't think the IGP is faulty; it's just that yields are so bad. The IGP is most of the die.

I thought GPU designs were much easier to harvest cut down models, meaning that a lesser EU model should still be possible. Do you think this is difficult for Intel unlike Nvidia or AMD?

 

[jpiniero]

I thought GPU designs were much easier to harvest cut down models, meaning that a lesser EU model should still be possible. Do you think this is difficult for Intel unlike Nvidia or AMD?

It is possible but I think it's just that yields are that bad.

 

[frozentundra123456]

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-8700k-msi-z370-krait-benchmarks-overclocking-leaked/

Coffeelake as expected will be a overclocking beast easily crossing 5 Ghz. Looks like a good AIO should be able to hit 5.2- 5.3 Ghz. This is the precise reason that 7800x will be destroyed by a 8700k. >10% higher max clocks and better gaming IPC. AMD might have to cut prices to respond to Coffeelake until Pinnacle Ridge arrives in 2018. The next few years are going to be golden for the PC industry with competition unseen since the Athlon K7 / K8 days.

That sounds a bit optimistic to me. Especially the "easy" part. With six cores, I expect it to take a very good chip to hit 5ghz or more. 4.8 or so seems much more reasonable for the average chip. Still, that is not bad: 20% higher than ryzen, and in most cases a slight ipc advantage, so six core will come close to 8 core ryzen in multi-thread loads and be clearly superior in single threaded.

 

[raghu78]

That sounds a bit optimistic to me. Especially the "easy" part. With six cores, I expect it to take a very good chip to hit 5ghz or more. 4.8 or so seems much more reasonable for the average chip. Still, that is not bad: 20% higher than ryzen, and in most cases a slight ipc advantage, so six core will come close to 8 core ryzen in multi-thread loads and be clearly superior in single threaded.

The avg Coffeelake OC should be 5+ Ghz easily given that 14++ has better performance than 14+ and the 7740X is already hitting 5 Ghz avg max OC quite consistently. I think Ryzen will need some price cuts till Pinnacle Ridge arrives. Coffeelake should do very well and will limit AMD's market share growth in the medium term. Longer term I don't think Intel can stop AMD from gaining significant market share.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That sounds a bit optimistic to me. Especially the "easy" part. With six cores, I expect it to take a very good chip to hit 5ghz or more. 4.8 or so seems much more reasonable for the average chip. Still, that is not bad: 20% higher than ryzen, and in most cases a slight ipc advantage, so six core will come close to 8 core ryzen in multi-thread loads and be clearly superior in single threaded.

I agree. A lot of people don't understand that these chips are binned.

My i5-6400, that I BCLK OCed, wouldn't do much more than 4.5Ghz @ 1.4V+. At that speed and voltage, I was exceeding the 95W TDP of my 92mm Zalman heatpipe tower cooler (CNPS5x??).

 

[casiofx]

I agree. A lot of people don't understand that these chips are binned.

My i5-6400, that I BCLK OCed, wouldn't do much more than 4.5Ghz @ 1.4V+. At that speed and voltage, I was exceeding the 95W TDP of my 92mm Zalman heatpipe tower cooler (CNPS5x??).

That’s a small cooler to pump 1.4volts. Isn’t it dangerous?

I only pump 1.3v on my 6600k when using hyper 212, but my ambient temp is pretty high ranging around 30-35C so that sucks.

 

[StinkyPinky]

If the 8700k can "easily" cross 5GHz then I'll eat my hat. Perhaps on a 280mm radiator and a good binning.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That’s a small cooler to pump 1.4volts. Isn’t it dangerous?

Yeah, had to clock it back down to 4.2+Ghz, and 1.35V. Still too much, apparently, as it would run Heaven Benchmark, but when my friend bought it from me, and took it home, his game was crashing, a few hours into it. So I had him clock it back down, and it stopped crashing.

So much for the people that said all Skylake quads could hit "4.5 easy". Not really. Just like, I've never been able to OC a G3258 more than 4.3Ghz FULLY-stable, on an H81 board. Although plenty of people claimed you could hit 4.8 mostly easy on those CPUs.

 

[Markfw]

Yeah, had to clock it back down to 4.2+Ghz, and 1.35V. Still too much, apparently, as it would run Heaven Benchmark, but when my friend bought it from me, and took it home, his game was crashing, a few hours into it. So I had him clock it back down, and it stopped crashing.

So much for the people that said all Skylake quads could hit "4.5 easy". Not really. Just like, I've never been able to OC a G3258 more than 4.3Ghz FULLY-stable, on an H81 board. Although plenty of people claimed you could hit 4.8 mostly easy on those CPUs.

Wow, just a thought. I always have bought a new CPU just to test it for myself. I did Ryzen and was sold. Maybe I need to try Skylake-X and give an honest opinion. So far I have been upset with the reviews I have read on its heat and power usage.

But not sure I want to spend $2000 on a 7980XE (If I got that right). But I will think about it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Wow, just a thought. I always have bought a new CPU just to test it for myself. I did Ryzen and was sold. Maybe I need to try Skylake-X and give an honest opinion. So far I have been upset with the reviews I have read on its heat and power usage.

But not sure I want to spend $2000 on a 7980XE (If I got that right). But I will think about it.

I'm the same way, wanting to actually use a new CPU (after reading about it plenty online), to get a "seat of the pants" impression. My Ryzen 5 1600 rigs certainly didn't disappoint, so I bought a few more, to replace all of my ATX desktops.

But that's why I didn't buy an 1800X, but instead went for the 1600.

Nobody doubts your e-peen Mark, I don't quite see why you would need to get the 7980XE, if Skylake-X is TDP-limited at the higher core counts, anyways.

Plus, I might wait until more DC software specifically supports AVX-512. I don't think that current AVX code will automagically use the AVX-512 opcodes.

 

[Markfw]

I'm the same way, wanting to actually use a new CPU (after reading about it plenty online), to get a "seat of the pants" impression. My Ryzen 5 1600 rigs certainly didn't disappoint, so I bought a few more, to replace all of my ATX desktops.

But that's why I didn't buy an 1800X, but instead went for the 1600.

Nobody doubts your e-peen Mark, I don't quite see why you would need to get the 7980XE, if Skylake-X is TDP-limited at the higher core counts, anyways.

Plus, I might wait until more DC software specifically supports AVX-512. I don't think that current AVX code will automagically use the AVX-512 opcodes.

Ahh, but thats why I got an 1800X, and a 1700x and now about to get a 1700. The 1800x is faster than the 1700x, but probably not worth the extra for most people. I don't know about the 1700x vs the 1700 until I get it, but my gut says no. And then theres the threadripper. They all are great at DC.

But, now where do I spend my bucks on Skylake-X ? Thats the real question......I became the CPU mod I think by trying everything myself and evaluating it, with no bias (I am an elected mod, if you remember)

 

[VirtualLarry]

But, now where do I spend my bucks on Skylake-X ? Thats the real question......I became the CPU mod I think by trying everything myself and evaluating it, with no bias (I am an elected mod, if you remember)

Yeah, I remember. (You're definitely one of the most fair guys on the forum when it comes to CPUs.)

I used to try and be fair, but I'll be honest, Ryzen is turning me into a minor fanboy. I mean, I was rooting for AMD all along, but I don't know if I ever recommended an FX rig to anyone, except for video-editing. I was a fan of their AM1 platform, being a fan of lower-cost platforms all along. Shame that they never really updated it, I thought that they had a good thing going.

Ryzen changes all of that - it's actually a GREAT CPU architecture, and AMD's current pricing, makes it very easy to join the club. Unbeatable value, IMHO. At least for those people that still have an open mind.

That's why I rooting for Ryzen, these days. Not because I'm simply rooting for AMD, but that I'm rooting for VALUE. The same reason I was rooting for the Intel G4560 before Ryzen 3 1200 was released (and when G4560 prices were SANE and below MSRP). These days, a Ryzen 3 1200 is same / cheaper price, and MORE powerful, especially when OCed to 3.8 using the stock cooler. So I'm not really recommending the G4560 any more. (Plus, B250 boards are as expensive as B350 boards, and you can OC Ryzen!)

Edit: I'm probably the last guy on these forums that you should ask for advice on buying the most expensive Skylake-X CPU... honestly, my forte is lower-end stuff, and value-for-money. I'll add though, that the nearly linear price-per-core-pair increases, are a much more fair showing from Intel than I've seen in a long time.

I'll say, that except for a hard-freeze that I encountered during the software / driver install phase, my DeskMini that I just built, with a G4560, 2x4GB GSkill DDR4-2400, and a 128GB Plextor TLC M.2 PCI-E NVMe SSD... it's just SO SMOOTH, and "PDS" - "Pretty Damn Snappy".

I'm running it with a 4K UHD TV, using DisplayPort, and an active Club3D adapter to convert to HDMI2.0 for the TV.

Edit: Just using it for browsing, thus far. No DC or video-editing or gaming on the iGPU. But for basic business-type productivity and "browser boxes" - those little DeskMini units really rock. Especially for those that don't want a "big" desktop (tower case, or even SFF micro-ATX slim case).

 

[Markfw]

To everyone, sorry, was not trying to derail this thread. But I would like opinions on which Skylake-X CPU (or more than one) I should try and personally review. Now, not to go nuts, one or two guys, I am not a millionaire.

 

[tamz_msc]

The 14-core 7940X seems to have the highest all core turbo among the upcoming HCC Skylake-X chips. That would be the most appropriate comparison, especially against the 1950X.