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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
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How are 8 cores impossible due to heat? Perplexing analysis.
Oh I totally agree. It was never my analysis. It was an excuse people gave for why Intel didn't get off its quad core ass way earlier. But then, all of a sudden, out of the clear blue 14nm sky, AMD drops a bunch of 8/16 chips on our heads. Now Intel gives us 6/12 and 8/16 on mainstream. That's cute.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,523
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Guru3d had a news item this morning mentioning Coffee Lake might come with an 8/16 CPU and be paired with the Z390 later this year. Sounds impossible, but you never know I guess. They will charge so much for that 8 core that it becomes obsolete I expect. Mainstream market doesn't want $600 CPUs, lol. That price would make sense though. Whatever the competition is charging, just double it and call it good over there at Intel.
Also, if this is true, I'd like to know how Intel suddenly managed to produce an 8/16 core with IGPU at 14nm. Remember? It was impossible due to heat. That's the only reason Intel didn't make a mainstream 8 core yet.
Also, 8700K @ $400 is too damn expensive. Its just too damn much. Ridiculous.
So don't buy it then.

Just keep sniping...that will work out a lot better.
 

elhefegaming

Member
Aug 23, 2017
154
69
71
I'm lost now
So, do we expect the Z370 to be compatible with these new 8c CPUs? If the socket, and process is the same I don't see why not.


Prices of Intel’s Coffee Lake-S CPUs Published: $400 for Core i7-8700K?

i7-8700K: $400
i7-8700: $338
i5-8600K: $284
i5-8400: $201
i3-8350K: $197
i3-8100: $130

source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11843/prices-of-intels-coffee-lakes-cpus-published-400-for-core-i78700k
Historically speaking, except some weird cases, all 'latest i7k' where 339 or less when released (even the LATEST) and now somehow they are going for a 400$ release price
(same thing applies for the i5k)

On top of that they are forcing you to buy a mobo with no future just for this CPU.

You use to be fun intel.
 
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moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
9,767
1,293
126
I'm lost now
So, do we expect the Z370 to be compatible with these new 8c CPUs? If the socket, and process is the same I don't see why not.
LOL, of course not. Why in God's name would Intel do something so ridiculous? Haha come on man. It's Z370 for the 6 core chips and a duplicate board named Z390 for the 8 core chips. They can't have people swapping out a 6 core chip for an 8 core. People aren't allowed to just get away with murder like that. You should have to buy a new board to go with it according to Intel.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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But then, all of a sudden, out of the clear blue 14nm sky, AMD drops a bunch of 8/16 chips on our heads. Now Intel gives us 6/12 and 8/16 on mainstream. That's cute.
Are you contributing to this Intel thread with new information, new insight, or asking genuine questions? Or are you trolling?

Intel has had 8 cores on 14 nm for quite a while (6900K, 7820X, and the workstation/server versions such as the 2667v4 and several similar chips). So, whomever said it was impossible was flat out wrong (please provide links, or we will assume that person was you). And if Intel does release 8 cores for mainstream later, that isn't "all of a sudden".
 
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R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,560
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Are you contributing to this Intel thread with new information, new insight, or asking genuine questions? Or are you trolling?

Intel has had 8 cores on 14 nm for quite a while (6900K, 7820X, and the workstation/server versions such as the 2667v4 and several similar chips). So, whomever said it was impossible was flat out wrong (please provide links, or we will assume that person was you). And if Intel does release 8 cores for mainstream later, that isn't "all of a sudden".
Oh, would you look at that :D
Eight cores on the mainstream and good IPC increase for Kaby Lake??? You and Arach are both dreaming.
Ain't google a great thing, exposes so many bold faced lies & then some :rolleyes:

I'm not blaming frozen here but some, actually many of the excuses, from the other side, are entertaining to say the least !
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
2,609
532
136
Historically speaking, except some weird cases, all 'latest i7k' where 339 or less when released (even the LATEST) and now somehow they are going for a 400$ release price
(same thing applies for the i5k)
You are comparing shop pre-order prices with Intels price list which is plain stupid.
 

elhefegaming

Member
Aug 23, 2017
154
69
71
You are comparing shop pre-order prices with Intels price list which is plain stupid.
I don't remember a pre-order of 400$ for any I7k really so it would still be an increase.

The 339 price is not Intel's price list, is what I paid for I7k in the past and what the 7700k costs right now actually.

No idea why you have to come up and call something stupid just because you didn't understand what I meant.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
3,466
2,751
136
I don't remember a pre-order of 400$ for any I7k really so it would still be an increase.
Better work that memory muscle...

Currently, the store has 6 out-of-stock Skylake microprocessors from Core i5-6400 to Core i7-6700K, and their prices range from $211 to $394. Compared to previous generation, the pre-order prices of Skylake CPUs are about 13% - 19% higher than the official prices of desktop Haswell chips. It is important to remember that that the market prices are usually higher than the official ones, and that pre-order prices may go down a bit once the processors are released
source
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,208
626
121
Oh, would you look at that :D

Ain't google a great thing, exposes so many bold faced lies & then some :rolleyes:

I'm not blaming frozen here but some, actually many of the excuses, from the other side, are entertaining to say the least !
You seem to have confused 14 nm+ with 14 nm++ (and Kaby Lake with Coffee Lake). Intel 8 core mainstream in the year 2015 was dreaming. We might not even get it until 2018.
 
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R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,560
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You said this, I'm assuming it was wrt mainstream desktop chips?
Intel has had 8 cores on 14 nm for quite a while (6900K, 7820X, and the workstation/server versions such as the 2667v4 and several similar chips). So, whomever said it was impossible was flat out wrong (please provide links, or we will assume that person was you)
You could also search some ~16k other replies where users have speculated that 8c mainstream would be nigh impossible on 14nm, with an IGP, I suggest using google.

The point is it doesn't hurt anyone acknowledging the competition Ryzen brings, it may also have forced Intel to being 8c to 14nm, though another 10nm disaster could be the bigger reason.

Also there was no 14nm++ 2 years back IIRC.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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You said this, I'm assuming it was wrt mainstream desktop chips?You could also search some ~16k other replies where users have speculated that 8c mainstream would be nigh impossible on 14nm, with an IGP, I suggest using google.

The point is it doesn't hurt anyone acknowledging the competition Ryzen brings, it many also have forced Intel to being 8c to 14nm, though another 10nm disaster could be the bigger reason.

Also there was no 14nm++ 2 years back IIRC.
Since 2015, 14nm performance/power consumption has gotten a lot better, manufacturing yields have improved, more 14nm capacity has come online, Intel's chip teams have managed to tweak the circuits/physical implementations of these chips for better frequency/lower power, etc.

Increasing the die size and core count on a product that ships in the tens-of-millions each year is far from a trivial exercise.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,208
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You said this, I'm assuming it was wrt mainstream desktop chips?You could also search some ~16k other replies where users have speculated that 8c mainstream would be nigh impossible on 14nm, with an IGP, I suggest using google.

The point is it doesn't hurt anyone acknowledging the competition Ryzen brings, it may also have forced Intel to being 8c to 14nm, though another 10nm disaster could be the bigger reason.

Also there was no 14nm++ 2 years back IIRC.
Let me retry.

14nm++ was not around then. Thus, 8 cores in mainstream WAS dreaming in the year 2015. But 8 cores on 14 nm and 14nm+ was certainly possible. It just didn't fit into the yield/profit/use case that companies wanted.

Please take some economic courses. Competition does not affect products that are sold (unless they cannot be sold profitibly, then competition just eliminates products from the market). What competition does is it affects the prices that the products are sold at. Yes, Ryzen is impacting Intel's prices, I do not deny that. Ryzen does not magically make Intel release products that take years to develop "all of a sudden".
 
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R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,560
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Let me retry.

14nm++ was not around then. Thus, 8 cores in mainstream WAS dreaming in the year 2015. But 8 cores on 14 nm and 14nm+ was certainly possible. It just didn't fit into the yield/profit/use case that companies wanted.

Please take some economic courses. Competition does not affect products that are sold (unless they cannot be sold profitibly, then competition just eliminates products from the market). Competition affects the prices that the products are sold at.
So would it be fair to say that Ryzen, 10nm going slightly(?) awry & heavy competition in the desktop segment (in no particular order) has forced them to bring out the big guns in 6c & 8c variants? The 14nm++ being just an enabler?
Please take some economic courses. Competition does not affect products that are sold (unless they cannot be sold profitibly, then competition just eliminates products from the market). What competition does is it affects the prices that the products are sold at. Yes, Ryzen is impacting Intel's prices, I do not deny that. Ryzen does not magically make Intel release products that take years to develop "all of a sudden".
Wait what? So you think competition (AMD) didn't force Intel to release new products, more cores for less price than what historically Intel has given us?

Where can I sign up for such classes?

I've explained this earlier, Intel knew something about Ryzen or at least the ballpark where it's performance would land. To not have prepared for a 10nm delay & a resurgent AMD would be something only an incompetent organisation would do, that Intel is not, even atm.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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So would it be fair to say that Ryzen, 10nm going slightly(?) awry & heavy competition in the desktop segment (in no particular order) has forced them to bring out the big guns in 6c & 8c variants? The 14nm++ being just an enabler?
Intel wanted to release an 8 core mainstream CNL-S in 2016 but this project died because 10nm was coughing up blood and had no reasonable chance of going into production in time.

So to give OEMs something new, they added Kaby Lake to the roadmap as a relatively low-risk way to get something better out, and they also added Coffee Lake, which they could increase core count with because they knew they'd have another year's worth of process advancement + more time to fine-tune the circuit design as well as the platform itself to support the higher core count.

It appears that they also threw in an 8-core CFL. I don't think this will be on a 14nm+++ or something like that, but they will have still more time to wring out more performance from the physical implementation to support the still higher core count. Also, additional process maturity should help them be more aggressive in binning for frequency.

So, while AMD Ryzen certainly impacted Intel's CFL release schedule (forcing Z370 on the OEMs, for example, rather than having them wait for the proper Z390), the truth is that Intel's roadmaps are first and foremost dictated by what its OEM customers (organizations that buy multi-billions of dollars' worth of silicon each year) want more than anything else.
 
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R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,560
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Intel wanted to release an 8 core mainstream CNL-S in 2016 but this project died because 10nm was coughing up blood and had no reasonable chance of going into production in time.

So to give OEMs something new, they added Kaby Lake to the roadmap as a relatively low-risk way to get something better out, and they also added Coffee Lake, which they could increase core count with because they knew they'd have another year's worth of process advancement + more time to fine-tune the circuit design as well as the platform itself to support the higher core count.

It appears that they also threw in an 8-core CFL. I don't think this will be on a 14nm+++ or something like that, but they will have still more time to wring out more performance from the physical implementation to support the still higher core count. Also, additional process maturity should help them be more aggressive in binning for frequency.

So, while AMD Ryzen certainly impacted Intel's CFL release schedule (forcing Z370 on the OEMs, for example, rather than having them wait for the proper Z390), the truth is that Intel's roadmaps are first and foremost dictated by what its OEM customers (organizations that buy multi-billions of dollars' worth of silicon each year) want more than anything else.
I don't know if or how Intel anticipates demand in the client computing segment, but I'd say that is what dictates any roadmap, including OEM feedback et al.

You cannot possibly discount the competition when you're planning for future products or laying roadmaps, having dealt with businesses personally (on a much smaller scale) I'd say inventory is something that you always have to keep in mind.
 

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