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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,448
535
126
Personally, I've got my eye on that 10-core beast but even still, I'm going to wait until we see what AMD offers for their HEDT platform before I jump because I suspect the 10 core will be $1000, minimum.

I seem to have many of the kinks worked out of my cheap Ryzen gaming system and I imagine new BIOS revisions will make it better. I have no problem going AMD HEDT if the performance/$ is there - I'll just use the savings for more RAM, faster SSDs, better GPUs, etc.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,124
131
Really like the fact that Intel is sponsoring the PC Gaming Show at E3-2017. HEDT matching the clocks of mainstream CPUs, coupled with more cores, >2x the bandwidth, 4x the L2 cache/core and extra L3 means performance will be superb in those games that still tax 1-2 cores, as well as those with great MT scaling. Will be an interesting match between Basin Falls and Coffee Lake-S.
 
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tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,443
2,112
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Really like the fact that Intel is sponsoring the PC Gaming Show at E3-2017. HEDT matching the clocks of mainstream CPUs, coupled with more cores, >2x the bandwidth, 4x the L2 cache/core and extra L3 means performance will be superb in those games that still tax 1-2 cores, as well as those with great MT scaling. Will be an interesting match between Basin Falls and Coffee Lake-S.
Where is the extra L3? You're getting carried away by the hype.
 
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ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
1,474
65
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I'm glad you guys have a handle on all this. Because Intel has a habit of subsuming the last generation HEDT with the current generation of mainstream CPU's under the same generation number, we have had mixtures only experts uderstood. You had to know that a 47xx CPU was a Haswell, but a 49xx was an Ivy Bridge, for example. I comprehend why the HEDT/Xeon lagged a year behind mainstream chips, but the generation numbers confused things.

Now we come to Skylake X and Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake X -- it's getting confusing. Plus all those other letters out there. Is there a scorecard somewhere so the casual user can keep track?
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,728
547
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Now im fully expecting Intel to release a 6C/12T CFL and call it I9, and price it $500 just like 1800X... Increasing the mainstream price roof to $500, yay. Thank you AMD and Intel.
 

Bouowmx

Senior member
Nov 13, 2016
962
354
116
Actually, naming makes more sense this time around. Putting Intel Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X as generation 7 is logical in that they use 14 nm +, same as Kaby Lake-S. No more grouping of current-generation mainstream and previous-generation HEDT, because Coffee Lake-S (14 nm ++) will be branded (?) generation 8.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
6,368
1,954
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Now im fully expecting Intel to release a 6C/12T CFL and call it I9, and price it $500 just like 1800X... Increasing the mainstream price roof to $500, yay. Thank you AMD and Intel.
No, that would be more than a 6C/12C SKX. $500 is the price of an 8C/16T Ryzen 1800X. Mainstream is still 4C - so mainstream prices haven't gone up at all (and will probably be coming down due competition).
 
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moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
9,767
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^ If Intel prices their chips against the 1800X, how will they counter the R7 1700? By selling you a $300 4c/4t i5?
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
6,368
1,954
136
^ If Intel prices their chips against the 1800X, how will they counter the R7 1700? By selling you a $300 4c/4t i5?
That's not what I said. I imagine Coffee Lake will have it's pricing re-aligned. Some suggested the 6C/12T CPU will take over the place of the i7 7700K or ~$350. We will see - depends on how threatened Intel is. They can try to restrict sales of Ryzen by aggressive pricing, or limit the damage while maintaining decent margins. You can bet that Intel has sales numbers for AMD to use as a guide. Interesting times anyway.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,608
3,586
136
You have to consider the whole ecosystem when looking at this. Intel's Client Computing Group is in managed decline mode, so their focus is on minimizing development costs and maximizing margins. The move Intel is trying to make is migrating all "enthusiast" SKUs (i.e. K-series) onto their HEDT platform. I wouldn't be surprised to see K SKUs disappearing from Coffeelake and future client chip generations.
Doing that would be potentially suicidal, though. The HEDT platform is complete overkill for chips like the 7740k and 7640k.
 

blue11

Member
May 11, 2017
151
77
51
Doing that would be potentially suicidal, though. The HEDT platform is complete overkill for chips like the 7740k and 7640k.
The volume of K SKUs is too low to make much different in Intel's revenue (or profits). The real danger would be a PR backlash coming from enthusiasts. The decision to launch a 7640K/7740K must have been made some time ago, and with Zen exceeding expectations, it is possible Intel will end up not following through. However, if AMD had failed to execute on Zen, I imagine we could have seen this exact scenario where Intel bifurcates the client market and pushes all enthusiast and "gamer" SKUs onto HEDT. It could easily have been done quietly; simply not launching any unlocked Coffeelake SKUs would have done the trick.
 
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StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,440
369
126
Exciting times in the CPU market for once. The last interesting time...was when? The release of Sandy Bridge?
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
46,987
4,602
126
Exciting times in the CPU market for once. The last interesting time...was when? The release of Sandy Bridge?
For me, it was Conroe. I didn't invest in any Sandy Bridge machines, untill I bought an OEM pre-built with a SB Pentium for half price on clearance a year or two later. And then another SB i3 a year or two later still, on extreme closeout. Still have that box.
 
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Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,669
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i wonder if there will be a step up program...
what socket are all these chips? i9s HEDT and i7s LGA1151?

i'm surprised Intel calls a non-HT part "i7" (the 4/4 part), in what seems like a panic move, they forego the convention that was upheld since the first "Core i" generation?

my other concerns are about thermals...moar coars and moar GHz on a very dense node as it is, with TIM+GAP under the hood, does not make for a cool running chip. maybe Intel assumes all high-end buyers have water setups?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,608
3,586
136
The volume of K SKUs is too low to make much different in Intel's revenue (or profits). The real danger would be a PR backlash coming from enthusiasts.
That's what I was thinking. It ranks up there with the "all S-class chips will go BGA" rumour, which might well have been a feature of their attempt to move k-class chips to the HEDT platform.

If Intel proceeds with such a plan anyway, they're insane.
 

wildhorse2k

Member
May 12, 2017
180
81
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Previously HEDT platform was united with server platform. For X99 one could buy from 4 core Xeons, Core i7 up to 22 core Xeons. Seperation of HEDT means there will be small market for these CPUs and motherboards. So it may make sense to move some high end desktop CPUs to HEDT. I don't see it that disasturous, people who buy K-class chips have the money to buy more expensive boards. The main trouble with this strategy is now cheap multicore Ryzens with cheap motherboards.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,728
547
136
No, that would be more than a 6C/12C SKX. $500 is the price of an 8C/16T Ryzen 1800X. Mainstream is still 4C - so mainstream prices haven't gone up at all (and will probably be coming down due competition).
I hope so, but last time something like this happened is when AMD stopped using HDx8xx as top of the line gpus and introduced HDx9xxx as top of the line, in 2009 a HD5850 cost was $260, today for $260 you can buy a RX580 that are more like the HD5700 of that time.

I really hope 6C/12T CFL ends reeplacing 7700K for $350, not at $500 to match R7 1800X price. If that happen on a mainstream socket for both brands it will be really bad for us looking to the future.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,608
3,586
136
people who buy K-class chips have the money to buy more expensive boards.
Ehhh, I dunno. There are plenty of folks out there with chips like the i7-7700k running on ~$90 motherboards. On LGA1151 and earlier, k-class chips didn't have TDPs in excess of 100W (generally) and they haven't required robust VRM configurations or extensive overclocking to justify the purchase. There were plenty of reasons to get the 4790k and 7700k over the non-k S-class chips.

The main trouble with this strategy is now cheap multicore Ryzens with cheap motherboards.
Yup! R7 1700 + B350 = 3.8-4.0 GHz at a price of $400 or less (R7 prices are falling). The B350 Pro4 is so good that most people don't need anything more anyway.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
46,987
4,602
126
Do you think that they will increase the thread count, for CFL Celeron? 2C/4T, like KBL Pentium? Or will CFL even have Celeron/Pentium, or will Intel simply continue to sell KBL Celeron/Pentium at the low end, and CFL at the higher end?

Do you think that they will move CFL Pentium to 4C/4T, or CFL i3?

I'm hoping for a 2C/4T CFL Celeron for $42, but ... given that the cores are the same, between KBL and CFL, and the only excitement seems to be at the high-end (6C/12T i7), then part of me doubts that Intel will even refresh the low-end. They might do it for OEMs, though, so that those Wal-Mart PCs can sport an "8th-generation Celeron". Which, if it's 2C/4T, will be a material improvement over 2C/2T, just like the KBL Pentiums before them.

Really, though, the days of pure dual-cores are over. 2C/4T should be a minimum these days.
 
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formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
6,998
521
126
Do you think that they will move CFL Pentium to 4C/4T, or CFL i3?
With AMD very strongly in the game, Intel may not have a choice but to follow their lead on the structure.

Seeing other comments, I can't understand why anyone would defend Intel these past years if Intel is supposed to be the tech and caring leader.
 
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Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,728
547
136
Do you think that they will increase the thread count, for CFL Celeron? 2C/4T, like KBL Pentium? Or will CFL even have Celeron/Pentium, or will Intel simply continue to sell KBL Celeron/Pentium at the low end, and CFL at the higher end?

Do you think that they will move CFL Pentium to 4C/4T, or CFL i3?

I'm hoping for a 2C/4T CFL Celeron for $42, but ... given that the cores are the same, between KBL and CFL, and the only excitement seems to be at the high-end (6C/12T i7), then part of me doubts that Intel will even refresh the low-end. They might do it for OEMs, though, so that those Wal-Mart PCs can sport an "8th-generation Celeron". Which, if it's 2C/4T, will be a material improvement over 2C/2T, just like the KBL Pentiums before them.

Really, though, the days of pure dual-cores are over. 2C/4T should be a minimum these days.
They either sell rebranded KBL Pentiums and Celerons, or 4/4 CFL Celeron and Pentiums, that are the options here, considering they need the entire 14nm+ production to supply SKL-X/SP we may see 4/4 Celerons and Pentiums.

They still need an small 14+ 2/4 KBL production to supply embedded options like the i3-7101E/TE, but in very small quantities.

The 3rd option is 4/4 Pentium and 2/4 Celeron, that may also happen.
 

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