Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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crashtech

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2013
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Those were some old GPUs, though.
Yeah, there always seems to be an element of uncertainty or speculation to these sorts of discussions. I suppose if the facts were TOO self-evident, there'd be little to talk about. The take-away is that the 7350K could be fun to play with, but probably isn't a "sensible" choice. Sensible is so boring though, and CPUs in general have become rather boring. I gravitate towards things that are different, and the unlocked i3 is really one of the main differences in this so-called new generation of CPUs.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
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http://semiaccurate.com/2017/01/04/intel-unleashes-kaby-lake-skus-yearning-public/


Intel releases new KabyLake SKUs. Interesting that the ULV (formerly core M) processors continue to increase boost clocks, but their base clocks have not improved since Broadwell. Nothing too impressive overall, especially with zero IPC increase. Also, why no DDR4L? Apple has been using this stuff since 2015, why can't intel design a decent DDR4L controller for their ULV processors? Their igpu are bandwidth starved as it is. The 4.5W don't even have regular DDR4.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Yeah, there always seems to be an element of uncertainty or speculation to these sorts of discussions. I suppose if the facts were TOO self-evident, there'd be little to talk about. The take-away is that the 7350K could be fun to play with, but probably isn't a "sensible" choice. Sensible is so boring though, and CPUs in general have become rather boring. I gravitate towards things that are different, and the unlocked i3 is really one of the main differences in this so-called new generation of CPUs.
I have some disposable income, so I will probably get one to play with as my intro to KL and the 270 chipset.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
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JagatReview just published some test results from the fastest mobile Bristol Ridge, 35W TDP FX-9830P:



*In comparison, 15W TDP Core i7-7500U scores:

- Cinebench R15
Single Core: 145 pts
Multi Core: 363 pts

*15W TDP Core i5-7200U:

- Cinebench R15
Single Core: 129 pts
Multi Core: 331 pts

**15W TDP Core i3-7100U:



*NotebookCheck results from their Kaby Lake-U review.
**Lenovo Ideapad 310 review.

Argue what you want about desktop, but mobile Kaby Lake is a worthy successor in many aspects.


mikk said:
Real world speed is what matters.
Core i7-7Y75 inside the Acer Spin 7 can reach up to 2.8 GHz @ CB R15, while the Skylake-Y designs top out at 2.2 GHz. And I'm pretty sure that's not the best we will see from Kaby Lake-Y.

www.computerbase.de/2017-01/acer-spin-7-convertible-test/2
 
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Aug 11, 2008
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http://semiaccurate.com/2017/01/04/intel-unleashes-kaby-lake-skus-yearning-public/


Intel releases new KabyLake SKUs. Interesting that the ULV (formerly core M) processors continue to increase boost clocks, but their base clocks have not improved since Broadwell. Nothing too impressive overall, especially with zero IPC increase. Also, why no DDR4L? Apple has been using this stuff since 2015, why can't intel design a decent DDR4L controller for their ULV processors? Their igpu are bandwidth starved as it is. The 4.5W don't even have regular DDR4.
Get over it. There is no ipc increase from Skylake to Kaby Lake. It is the same core. Nobody ever claimed any differently. I am actually fairly impressed with the higher turbo clocks and ability to maintain turbo in Kaby Lake. Mobile really isnt about base clocks, it is about the ability to maintain boost clocks.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
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Get over it. There is no ipc increase from Skylake to Kaby Lake. It is the same core. Nobody ever claimed any differently. I am actually fairly impressed with the higher turbo clocks and ability to maintain turbo in Kaby Lake. Mobile really isnt about base clocks, it is about the ability to maintain boost clocks.
Where does it show that these SKUs maintain turbo for longer than skylake? I see some with higher boost clocks scoring higher, but there is not data on what clock speed they can maintain relative to similarly clocked skylake SKUs. That could just be better binning.

I don't understand what intel is thinking in taking Skylake and raising boost clocks by 200mhz and then calling it a new architecture. In all likelihood they could've clocked Skylake this high with better binning, which appears to be what they've done. The process has (very marginally) improved in the last year, so they likely have more chips that will meet higher clock standards. This appears to be what KabyLake really is: Better binned skylake.
 
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jpiniero

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Oct 1, 2010
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I don't understand what intel is thinking in taking Skylake and raising boost clocks by 200mhz and then calling it a new architecture. In all likelihood they could've clocked Skylake this high with better binning, which appears to be what they've done. The process has (very marginally) improved in the last year, so they likely have more chips that will meet higher clock standards. This appears to be what KabyLake really is: Better binned skylake.
Boy are you going to be mad when Coffee Lake comes out and they call it 8th gen. Not to mention the Kaby Lake Refresh.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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It's a Skylake Refresh, should have had a catchy name like "Huckster's Canyon."
More than that. Haswell Refresh did not include any silicon changes. Kaby Lake does, and has improved media engine, which is quite important for many, if not most, typical PC users.
 
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crashtech

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Jan 4, 2013
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More than that. Haswell Refresh did not include any silicon changes. Kaby Lake does, and has improved media engine, which is quite important for many, if not most, typical PC users.
Nothing against you or Intel, I use their CPUs exclusively at this time. Honestly it was quite predictable that you would take the time to contradict a statement like the one I made. But I'm not sure who is exaggerating more, me by saying KBL is more like a refresh, or you and Intel for saying it's a real generational change. The real truth probably lies in the middle, I think most people that aren't emotionally invested can clearly see this is the tiniest generational change we've seen yet, and while the speed bump and the iGPU changes are nice, it's tough to get away from the fact that it's a disappointing precedent to position these minor changes as a new generation. They are entitled to do it, you are entitled to defend it, and I am entitled to think it's a bit of a joke.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,104
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It is really hard to consider this a "generational" change. More like next year's car model, with upgraded upholstery, radio, and some slight engine ECU changes. Same chassis, same engine, same tires, same tranny, same quarter-mile speed (for desktop CPUs at least). Maybe top speed was improved a few MPH due to the ECU changes at high RPMs, but nothing major new.
 
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dahorns

Senior member
Sep 13, 2013
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It is really hard to consider this a "generational" change. More like next year's car model, with upgraded upholstery, radio, and some slight engine ECU changes. Same chassis, same engine, same tires, same tranny, same quarter-mile speed (for desktop CPUs at least). Maybe top speed was improved a few MPH due to the ECU changes at high RPMs, but nothing major new.
It's all marketing either way, I'm not sure why people care so long as performance is improved. Car manufacturers advertise each year as a new model even if the changes are only skin deep. They don't say "buy the 2009 Ford Focus, version 6.0 newly released in 2016" because it would be stupid and confusing. Yes, car buffs are aware that certain platforms get reused for several years and are aware when a new platform is released. But how is that any different here? The people that are interested in the nitty gritty know that Kabylake is the same basic core as Skylake.
 
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CakeMonster

Senior member
Nov 22, 2012
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So, the 6 core Skylake is next? We can be pretty certain that it won't have better single thread performance because there's no way it can do higher clock speeds (probably lower) than 4 core Kaby.

Will there be a 4 core next gen in 2018?

If not, I'm guessing people on Sandy and similar might want to a new look at Kaby if they primarily game. Because there won't be anything improving gaming performance in a long time...
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,872
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it continues to scale at higher speeds provided timings don't go to shit
i have found that 3866c16 tweaked with a 6700k at stock is faster in game than 3200c14 xmp with the 6700k at 4.7ghz core\cache

i guess i should provide a little of the data so you can see for yourself






posted the rest of it here http://www.overclock.net/t/1611359/3770k-vs-6700k-in-fallout-4-arma-3-rainbow-six-siege-with-core-cache-memory-scaling-ddr3-1600c11-2133c9-ddr4-2133c15-3000c12-4000c17
Nice bm! How is the scaling any different than IB?
Looking at the Fallout graph it seems to me IB 3770 scales aprox the same with faster memory. Its just a very memory dependant bm and the timings and bandwith seems quite different between the modules selected. More illustrative than realistic. Now skl is faster so it obviously will benefit more from faster memory.

Btw a game like bf1 also demands a dual channel 1866 as minimum to keep the 60fps min.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,523
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It is really hard to consider this a "generational" change. More like next year's car model, with upgraded upholstery, radio, and some slight engine ECU changes. Same chassis, same engine, same tires, same tranny, same quarter-mile speed (for desktop CPUs at least). Maybe top speed was improved a few MPH due to the ECU changes at high RPMs, but nothing major new.
Krabby Lake...
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
3,726
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It is really hard to consider this a "generational" change. More like next year's car model, with upgraded upholstery, radio, and some slight engine ECU changes. Same chassis, same engine, same tires, same tranny, same quarter-mile speed (for desktop CPUs at least). Maybe top speed was improved a few MPH due to the ECU changes at high RPMs, but nothing major new.
It's the same crappy Starfleet battleship, only with overcharged impulse engine and deluxe holodeck experience. Officers remain unimpressed, they just wanted bigger guns. More guns would have also been an option. More bigger guns maybe? Holodeck is nice though, and that high speed vibration is gone too...
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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I think most people that aren't emotionally invested can clearly see this is the tiniest generational change we've seen yet, and while the speed bump and the iGPU changes are nice, it's tough to get away from the fact that it's a disappointing precedent to position these minor changes as a new generation. They are entitled to do it, you are entitled to defend it, and I am entitled to think it's a bit of a joke.
I don't get it though, if you compare stock-to-stock, 6700K offered what, 10-15% higher perf/clock than 4790K but it regressed in frequency so the performance gain was often sub-10%.

7700K doesn't change IPC, but it gets a solid boost in frequency (10% all core turbo improvement) over the 6700K.

Why does it matter how the performance increase is achieved as long as it is achieved?
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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So, the 6 core Skylake is next? We can be pretty certain that it won't have better single thread performance because there's no way it can do higher clock speeds (probably lower) than 4 core Kaby.
Well, there's always Skylake-X. I think Coffee Lake will clock similarly to the 7700K; no better or worse in 1-4 turbo.

Will there be a 4 core next gen in 2018?
Who knows when Icelake will show up; and even if it's any better architecturally than Skylake or Cannonlake.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Well, there's always Skylake-X. I think Coffee Lake will clock similarly to the 7700K; no better or worse in 1-4 turbo.
Depends on if they make extensive process changes or not. If it's just 14nm+, then probably no better clocks. If it's 14nm++, then I could see additional frequency headroom (another 100-300MHz).

Who knows when Icelake will show up; and even if it's any better architecturally than Skylake or Cannonlake.
Intel is on annual product release cycles now, or so they claim. So, 2019. Ice Lake includes a new CPU and GPU architecture.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
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Why does it matter how the performance increase is achieved as long as it is achieved?
Well, some may argue that when your performance increase has to be achieved by pushing frequencies ever higher, you are in trouble in already short term perspective.

With that said, i am of opinion that Kaby is indeed more than just a refresh.
 

dahorns

Senior member
Sep 13, 2013
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Well, some may argue that when your performance increase has to be achieved by pushing frequencies ever higher, you are in trouble in already short term perspective.
That only matters if you're an employee of Intel or an investor. If you're a consumer, I don't see why you'd care unless the performance claims were misleading.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Well, some may argue that when your performance increase has to be achieved by pushing frequencies ever higher, you are in trouble in already short term perspective.
Wasn't the reason all of the focus shifted to IPC was that frequency had hit a wall? If they can start breaking some frequency barriers, more power to 'em.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
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That only matters if you're an employee of Intel or an investor. If you're a consumer, I don't see why you'd care unless the performance claims were misleading.
Yep, as consumer it just means you get to keep your CPU even longer. What is not to like?
Wasn't the reason all of the focus shifted to IPC was that frequency had hit a wall? If they can start breaking some frequency barriers, more power to 'em.
More like thermals have created one. P4 could OC about as well as Skylake/Kaby (relative to clock of highest end SKU), after all. The frequency only hit a wall with Sandy Bridge.
 

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