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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,519
5,594
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Just a quick note, subjectively, using my Skylake G4400 Pentium (in my Asus H110M-A mobo, not overclocked, with 4GB RAM, and a 240GB Silicon Power SSD), seems quite a bit faster than my Haswell G1820 Celeron, even though that one has 16GB DDR3, and a 120GB VisionTek GoDrive 120GB SSD. Both running Win7 64-bit.

Then again, that may be because I haven't done updates on the SKL rig yet. Those always slow down Win7 somewhat.

I think a good amount of that is the IGP performance. Even the HD 510 is refreshingly powerful for desktop tasks and smooth scrolling. Much moreso than "Intel HD" has been.

Sadly, I'm still getting the display image corruption, and problems with HDMI Audio syncing up with my 24" HDTV monitor. (It seems random, if it will work, when I power on the monitor and wake up the PC from monitor sleep mode. Some times, the driver shows up, shows up as default device, and even shows the audio playing in the VU meter in the volume control, but still, no audio comes out of the monitor.) I do NOT have that issue, with my Haswell rig. It works fine.

Edit: To add, I don't think that it's the raw CPU Mhz either. True, the G4400 is 3.3Ghz, and the G1820 is 2.7Ghz, with slightly less L3 cache. But both rigs are crunching BOINC in the background. On the G4400 rig, I'm using 100% CPU usage, crunching on both cores. On the G1820, I'm only using 50% CPU crunching, on only one core. So I'm leaving one core free on the G1820, for Waterfox, and it's still slower.
 
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Bryf50

Golden Member
Nov 11, 2006
1,429
50
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I'd kill for a high-end windows ultrabook with one of the 28W chips. It's a shame that all of the Windows oems have completely ignored them for the past few years.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,249
1,839
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Why would Apple be using DDR3-1600 here? Lower power consumption?
Yes.

DDR4 1.2V
DDR3 1.5V

Now that's for standard memory.

DDR3L 1.35V

DDR3 has YET another standard

LPDDR3 1.2V

Most laptops use DDR3L, but Macbooks use LPDDR3. Not only is the voltage identical to the DDR4 modules, LPDDR3 has another significant feature. LPDDR3 compared to DDR3 has 1/10 standby power. That means even DDR4 doesn't compare there.

Mac line of Laptops have one of the lowest power use not only in idle but in actual usage(which is usually related to idle power because you don't always use it). That means LPDDR3 is better. DDR4 might net you 1-2% in CPU and 5% in GPU, but who cares? That can easily be overcome by better cooling system, optimized software, and right choices(like not using single channel memory as PC vendors do).
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
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Intel's Skylake vPro chips will support Windows 7 after all

The PC market is slumping partly because businesses are slow to upgrade PCs from Windows 7 to Windows 10, according to IDC. Intel is maintaining support for Windows 7 considering enterprises are still using the old OS, though the chips will aid in the transition to Windows 10, said Tom Garrison, vice president and general manager of business client products at Intel.
www.pcworld.com/article/3024372/intels-skylake-vpro-chips-will-support-windows-7-after-all.html


BTW, both MSI and Gigabyte released their own solutions to the Prime95 issue:



www.tweaktown.com/news/49739/msi-rolling-fix-skylake-freeze-bug/index.html

www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5482#bios


Nevermind, just saw this in anoother site.
Posted here first.


Most likely a fake.
Maybe, but there's not a single Windows-based PC using this chip yet, so I find it strange that the first Geekbench listing would come from a Hackintosh (not a real Mac).
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
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To those who think that AMD has a significant (graphics performance) advantage over Intel when it comes to notebook chips. NotebookCheck just tested the full blown Pro A12-8800B APU (fastest Carrizo, 512 SPs @ 800MHz - FX-8800P equivalent) with dual-channel RAM. Core i5-6200U is one of the most popular Skylake-U models, based on regular HD Graphics 520 (GT2, not fancy GT3e with eDRAM).

In the games where both chips were pitted against each other (19 games total), Core i5-6200U was faster in 10 games while A12-8800B was faster in 9 games at 1366x768 using medium quality settings. You were right mikk.

Also worth noting, HD 520 (Skylake-U) is 35-36% faster than HD 5500 (Broadwell-U) @ Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor.

www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-EliteBook-745-G3-Notebook.157955.0.html
 
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nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,829
76
91
Surprised by how good the performance of my i3-6100 and 520 graphics is with games. I play CS:S and CS:GO mainly and they both offer excellent framerates with decent resolution. Granted, they are older games but with integrated graphics, they run 60+ fps all the time. That's peachy for 99% of the general population. Obviously, a discrete card will be needed for some newer games.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,904
1,977
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To those who think that AMD has a significant (graphics performance) advantage over Intel when it comes to notebook chips. NotebookCheck just tested the full blown Pro A12-8800B APU (fastest Carrizo, 512 SPs @ 800MHz - FX-8800P equivalent) with dual-channel RAM. Core i5-6200U is one of the most popular Skylake-U models, based on regular HD Graphics 520 (GT2, not fancy GT3e with eDRAM).

In the games where both chips were pitted against each other (19 games total), Core i5-6200U was faster in 10 games while A12-8800B was faster in 9 games at 1366x768 using medium quality settings. You were right mikk.

Also worth noting, HD 520 (Skylake-U) is 35-36% faster than HD 5500 (Broadwell-U) @ Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor.

www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-EliteBook-745-G3-Notebook.157955.0.html
Quite impressive, a 28nm APU manages to hold its ground against a 14nm part in the same TDP (15W). Looking forward to when AMD get their hands on a modern process node.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
100
91
Quite impressive, a 28nm APU manages to hold its ground against a 14nm part in the same TDP (15W). Looking forward to when AMD get their hands on a modern process node.
Also considering how badly the OEMs bullies AMD hard and considering that they are still on DDR3... On DDR4, it must change.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
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Quite impressive, a 28nm APU manages to hold its ground against a 14nm part in the same TDP (15W). Looking forward to when AMD get their hands on a modern process node.
Except we were told in this forum (thread) that Carrizo would outperform the competition when it comes to graphics and this is the main selling point of AMD's APUs, and it failed at that. Up to 20% slower than a Core i3-6100U in NBC's CPU tests doesn't help either. Also if you want to compare the best both Intel and AMD have to offer at 15W TDP, Skylake-U GT3e would smoke it.
 
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Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,117
902
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To those who think that AMD has a significant (graphics performance) advantage over Intel when it comes to notebook chips. NotebookCheck just tested the full blown Pro A12-8800B APU (fastest Carrizo, 512 SPs @ 800MHz - FX-8800P equivalent) with dual-channel RAM. Core i5-6200U is one of the most popular Skylake-U models, based on regular HD Graphics 520 (GT2, not fancy GT3e with eDRAM).

In the games where both chips were pitted against each other (19 games total), Core i5-6200U was faster in 10 games while A12-8800B was faster in 9 games at 1366x768 using medium quality settings. You were right mikk.

Also worth noting, HD 520 (Skylake-U) is 35-36% faster than HD 5500 (Broadwell-U) @ Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor.

www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-EliteBook-745-G3-Notebook.157955.0.html
The Intel laptop consume much more, just look at the laptops temp when loaded, i wont even talk of the PSUs temps wich are 45°C for the AMD and 64°C for the Intel laptop, yet boths PSUs are 45W...

So how do you explain this, i m curious to hear your answer before i point from where it comes actualy...
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
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Bioshock Infinite 1366x768 Medium Preset:
Core i7-6650U (GT3e): 49.1 FPS
Pro A12-8800B: 37.7 FPS

30% faster and this is one of the 9 titles where Carrizo outperformed Skylake GT2 (probably by the largest margin out of all games it was faster), so Skylake GT3e's advantage would increase a fair amount in other titles.

Now let's take a look at CPU performance:

Cinebench 11.5 MT 64-bit:
Core i7-6650U (GT3e): 3.8 pts
Pro A12-8800B: 2.45 pts

Cinebench 11.5 ST 64-bit:
Core i7-6650U (GT3e): 1.51 pts
Pro A12-8800B: 0.88 pt


Abwx said:
Wrong. :(
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
100
91
And now they add the Iris Graphics to curb stomp AMD... Carrizo has not edRAM, they can't keep it up.

Even more, is better to compare to the nVIDIA GT 930M or R7 M370 to be more fair.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,117
902
126
Bioshock Infinite 1366x768 Medium Preset:
Core i7-6650U (GT3e): 49.1 FPS
Pro A12-8800B: 37.7 FPS

30% faster and this is one of the 9 titles where Carrizo outperformed Skylake GT2 (probably by the largest margin out of all games it was faster), so Skylake GT3e's advantage would increase a fair amount in other titles.

Now let's take a look at CPU performance:

Cinebench 11.5 MT 64-bit:
Core i7-6650U (GT3e): 3.8 pts
Pro A12-8800B: 2.45 pts

Cinebench 11.5 ST 64-bit:
Core i7-6650U (GT3e): 1.51 pts
Pro A12-8800B: 0.88 pt




Wrong. :(
Post the link of the reviews, otherwise you are just cherry picking numbers, in that case i think that it s the surface pro review, so here a few numbers :


25W TDP permanently, and still, a core is at 100MHz to give some TDP room (8W...) to the GPU :




In the CPU stress test 20W TDP with a core at 3.2GHz and the second core about unused at 100MHz, so you can imagine at what power the 3.8 score was achieved since it mandate 3.2GHz permanently..




Really, a big lol to NBC, as if it wasnt enough they test Intel items at 19°C ambiant, the AMD HP elite book was some kind of exception as all previous AMD laptops are granted a 25°C ambiant and even more, check the last reviews.

Indeed they receive no more AMD gear either from AMD or from manufacturers if we except a single case, they are relying on shops to get the AMD laptops..
 
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Aug 11, 2008
10,457
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Except we were told in this forum (thread) that Carrizo would outperform the competition when it comes to graphics and this is the main selling point of AMD's APUs, and it failed at that. Up to 20% slower than a Core i3-6100U in NBC's CPU tests doesn't help either. Also if you want to compare the best both Intel and AMD have to offer at 15W TDP, Skylake-U GT3e would smoke it.
Yes, but what is the cost of a GT3e chip, and even more significant, what is the cost of a device that you can buy that has that processor? Intel has made strides in igpu, but with their process lead, seems they should be clearly ahead of AMD without edram, or at least make edram more available and affordable if that is what it takes. And honestly, 20% doesnt seem that impressive a lead in cpu performance either, considering the process lead and that cpu performance is intel's strong point.

But I dont excuse AMD either. I am tired of people making excuses for them because they have a process deficit. It is the job of a company to present a good performing product, and in the cpu business, that includes a good process node. It is like a excusing a football team that continually loses because they have a bad quarterback. Duh!! Of course, but the point is to have a *good* quarterback.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
100
91
Well... This is weird... Since all laptops are comming with U tier chips...I am wondering... What happen if Intel decides to re-release their DLC program?

Yeah, that one when you pay some dollars and your CPU gets upgraded.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
1
26
The Intel laptop consume much more, just look at the laptops temp when loaded, i wont even talk of the PSUs temps wich are 45°C for the AMD and 64°C for the Intel laptop, yet boths PSUs are 45W...

So how do you explain this, i m curious to hear your answer before i point from where it comes actualy...
Performance per watt only matters when AMD is losing.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
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Yes, but what is the cost of a GT3e chip, and even more significant, what is the cost of a device that you can buy that has that processor?
Agreed, that's why I didn't even mention GT3e till someone compared Intel and AMD's best at 15W TDP.

Edit: This Carrizo notebook actually costs 1300 euros!

Intel has made strides in igpu, but with their process lead, seems they should be clearly ahead of AMD without edram, or at least make edram more available and affordable if that is what it takes. And honestly, 20% doesnt seem that impressive a lead in cpu performance either, considering the process lead and that cpu performance is intel's strong point.
Remmember (up to) 20% faster is for Core i3-6100U against the fastest Carrizo.
BTW, as for power consumption, let's read what (translated) NBC has to say:

Core i3-6100U (Medion Akoya E6422 - 500 Euros) said:
On the part of the energy demand, the Akoya behave inconspicuously. At idle, we measured a maximum power consumption of 8.7 watts. During the stress test, the power consumption rises to 35 Watts. The value is not surprising since the CPU and GPU work at their full speeds. In games everyday the value is 25 Watt (+/- 5 W). The power supply has a power rating of 45 watts.
Pro A12-8800B (HP EliteBook Notebook 745 G3 - 1300 Euros) said:
Even under load, we marvel initially values ​​of up to 45.2 watts - hard work for the included 45-watt power supply. However, after a short time and with it starts throttling the EliteBook levels off at about 34 watts, which already corresponds more closely, given the installed hardware with our expectations.
Medion Akoya E6422 battery life (15.6'') @ WLAN using 37 Wh battery: 277 minutes
HP EliteBook Notebook 745 G3 battery life (14'') @ WLAN using 46 Wh battery: 187 minutes

And NBC's conclusion:

Pro A12-8800B (HP EliteBook Notebook 745 G3) said:
...we must state that the A12-8800B at least not quite reach the level of a CPU-side current Core i3.

We need to emphasize even half the USB ports criticize HP's decision, both the practical maintenance flap so. Although additional USB type-C jack may be forward-looking, can this loss but are no compensate entirely. The short battery life and disappointing Webcam - unfortunately a cross-vendor annoyance - are a professional device far above the 1,000 euro mark not to shame.
But I dont excuse AMD either. I am tired of people making excuses for them because they have a process deficit. It is the job of a company to present a good performing product, and in the cpu business, that includes a good process node. It is like a excusing a football team that continually loses because they have a bad quarterback. Duh!! Of course, but the point is to have a *good* quarterback.
Valid points. ;)
 
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Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,117
902
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Medion Akoya E6422 battery life (15.6'') @ WLAN using 37 Wh battery: 277 minutes
They say 25.6W at most for the laptop, but let s see how the Core + GPU + uncore + RAM consume in the stress test :




The sum is 21.79W.

If we count two DC conversions (in the laptop + PSU) this should yield 26.9W at the main, but we still have not counted the PSU intrinsical losses, neither the 15"6 screen (about 4W at full brightness..) or wifi or whatever else in the laptop wich will also pass through a dual DC conversion...

Nice doctored numbers from NBC, i guess that they have to give some support to Aldi wich is one of the biggest discount shop in Germany.

Also notice that the CB 11.5 score is 2.75 despite the CPU TDP being more than the fake 15W hyped by Intel, yet we have people who think that those 15W can yield a 3.8 score in this bench....
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Also notice that the CB 11.5 score is 2.75 despite the CPU TDP being more than the fake 15W hyped by Intel, yet we have people who think that those 15W can yield a 3.8 score in this bench....
You would believe it and make up some excuses if AMD were able to deliver this kind of perf in that power envelope.

Seriously, what did Intel do to you to drive all of this irrational hatred?
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
9,117
902
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You would believe it and make up some excuses if AMD were able to deliver this kind of perf in that power envelope.

Seriously, what did Intel do to you to drive all of this irrational hatred?
I used numbers that can be witnessed by everybody while you are relying on an ad hominem.

Use maths to answer my post.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
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Also notice that the CB 11.5 score is 2.75 despite the CPU TDP being more than the fake 15W hyped by Intel, yet we have people who think that those 15W can yield a 3.8 score in this bench....

Carrizo wouldn't match that even at 42W (35W PPT), which means you were...



Abwx said:
Not at all, unless you take 47W chips from Intel, Carrizo has superior GPU perf at 35W or 15W segment, and it will have better CPU perfs in the latter TDP..
...wrong in all your predictions (no surprise).

And let's not mention the single-thread performance gap.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
128
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They say 25.6W at most for the laptop, but let s see how the Core + GPU + uncore + RAM consume in the stress test :




The sum is 21.79W.

If we count two DC conversions (in the laptop + PSU) this should yield 26.9W at the main, but we still have not counted the PSU intrinsical losses, neither the 15"6 screen (about 4W at full brightness..) or wifi or whatever else in the laptop wich will also pass through a dual DC conversion...

Nice doctored numbers from NBC, i guess that they have to give some support to Aldi wich is one of the biggest discount shop in Germany.

Also notice that the CB 11.5 score is 2.75 despite the CPU TDP being more than the fake 15W hyped by Intel, yet we have people who think that those 15W can yield a 3.8 score in this bench....
Haven't we been over this multiple times before with your blatantly incorrect numbers.

The CPU you link to here uses 13.82W? Peaked at 15.63W.

21.79W comes out of your imagination. DRAM is the only other component listed and it uses 2.26W, 2.29W peak.

A hint (again) for your future "math": Package=IA Cores+GT+Uncore.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,110
786
136
To those who think that AMD has a significant (graphics performance) advantage over Intel when it comes to notebook chips. NotebookCheck just tested the full blown Pro A12-8800B APU (fastest Carrizo, 512 SPs @ 800MHz - FX-8800P equivalent) with dual-channel RAM. Core i5-6200U is one of the most popular Skylake-U models, based on regular HD Graphics 520 (GT2, not fancy GT3e with eDRAM).

In the games where both chips were pitted against each other (19 games total), Core i5-6200U was faster in 10 games while A12-8800B was faster in 9 games at 1366x768 using medium quality settings. You were right mikk.

Also worth noting, HD 520 (Skylake-U) is 35-36% faster than HD 5500 (Broadwell-U) @ Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor.

www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-EliteBook-745-G3-Notebook.157955.0.html
That is a total and complete dissaster for AMD... hell the Surface Pro 4 is delivering the same IGP perf, a full notebook with the same igp perf, lower cpu than a tablet...
 

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