Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[frozentundra123456]

Also worth noting is the fact that 15W Core i7-6650U delivered nearly 85% the graphics performance of 65W Core i7-5775C at much lower TDP (3DMark 11 and Firestrike). I have a feeling Iris Pro 570/580 (GT4e) is going to pack some serious punch next quarter.



Hard to say, there's only one Skylake-U GT3e product on the market right now (as far as I know), the Core i7 version of the Surface Pro 4. ARK prices are very similar for HD 520 and Iris 540 based processors, they might not reflect reality but I don't think there's a huge premium for GT3e. These chips will likely be used in the 2016 Macbook Air lineup.

BTW it's Iris, Skylake with Iris Pro comes in Q1-2016 (BGA).

That is what I mean actually. Only one device is available, and irrespective of what Intel lists for the price, I just looked it up, and it costs 300.00 to move up from the i5 to the i7.

 

[Sweepr]

And there we have this:

http://www.hp.com/global/hpinfo/news...nDatasheet.pdf

HP zBook with Xeon E3-1545M/Iris Pro P580 is coming out in H1'16.

Nice find, thanks for sharing.

That is what I mean actually. Only one device is available, and irrespective of what Intel lists for the price, I just looked it up, and it costs 300.00 to move up from the i5 to the i7

Steep price, likely Microsoft charging consumers due to the performance it provides. If you look at the other Skylake-U GT3e product (Intel Swift Canyon NUCs), Core i5 with Iris 540 vs Core i3 with HD 520 costs an extra € 100, not that bad.

60 bucks difference between the 6100 and 6400, 29 bucks difference between the lowest priced Z170 and the lowest priced H110. You are telling me people wont try to save 31 bucks and avoid going 2c4t in 2015 when overclockable 4c4t is just around the corner?

Using the same logic, why not save $30 again and go with Z170 + Core i5-6400 (>4GHz fun)? These are not always simple decisions, at some point you have to stick with your budget. Also OCed Core i3 comes pretty darn close to low-tier Core i5 @ MT based on synthetic tests (not sure about games).

 

[Nothingness]

Talking about Xeon, what are the latest news about Xeon with AVX-512 and their release date? I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread, but it's become so huge...

 

[Sweepr]

Talking about Xeon, what are the latest news about Xeon with AVX-512 and their release date? I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread, but it's become so huge...

Purley is H1-2017.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157670&ignorebbr=1

Asrock H110 mATX board, with combo DDR3 / DDR4 slots.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157678&ignorebbr=1

ASrock H110 ITX board for $70.

 

[Nothingness]

Purley is H1-2017.

My patience will suffer a lot

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[dahorns]

That is what I mean actually. Only one device is available, and irrespective of what Intel lists for the price, I just looked it up, and it costs 300.00 to move up from the i5 to the i7.

I mean, I get complaining about the price increase for a desktop processor. The value proposition is questionable there. But for the mobile/ultrabook form factors, there is a lot to be said for Iris/Iris Pro. A 20% price increase (for the product) for 10-15% better CPU performance and >50% better graphics performance doesn't seem out of line to me.

I get that it is expensive. But the whole setup is expensive . If you have the cash, Iris makes sense. If you don't, you shouldn't be looking to buy a $1000 plus laptop anyway.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, it is not a thousand dollars. It is 1600.00 for the i7 with 8gb of ram. And I dont even think that includes the type cover, which seems like a necessity at this price point. So if you upgrade to 16gb of ram and add the type cover, you are looking at almost 2k. Even if you "have the cash" you can get a lot more performance for a lot less money. The biggest sticking point I have is the cost *and* even at that price, apparently there are throttling issues. If I am paying that much, I certainly dont want the performance nerfed by throttling.

To me, it is not really a matter of "having the cash", but how important mobility is to the user. I dont think it is that important to many, unless you are in business and can write it off or get your company to buy it for you.

It is just disappointing that Intel has had iris/iris pro, whatever they call it for what two or three years now at least, and still no real mainstream availability.

 

[dahorns]

Well, it is not a thousand dollars. It is 1600.00 for the i7 with 8gb of ram. And I dont even think that includes the type cover, which seems like a necessity at this price point. So if you upgrade to 16gb of ram and add the type cover, you are looking at almost 2k. Even if you "have the cash" you can get a lot more performance for a lot less money. The biggest sticking point I have is the cost *and* even at that price, apparently there are throttling issues. If I am paying that much, I certainly dont want the performance nerfed by throttling.

To me, it is not really a matter of "having the cash", but how important mobility is to the user. I dont think it is that important to many, unless you are in business and can write it off or get your company to buy it for you.

It is just disappointing that Intel has had iris/iris pro, whatever they call it for what two or three years now at least, and still no real mainstream availability.

These devices are targeted at professionals, indeed pretty much all ultrabooks are. I think you overestimate the average users concern about the pure performance per dollar metric.

Gamers do. Some other hardcore users do. The majority of us looking at devices in this price range want a better blend of performance, style, and mobility. A 17inch briefcase gaming laptop isnt helpful or useful for us, no matter how much more performance it offers per dollar.

 

[frozentundra123456]

No but you can get a 350.00 laptop with equal performance (and maybe even better because it wont throttle). And you can get an atom windows tablet for 100.00ish, or even an ipad for a few hundred.

All you sacrifice is portability and battery life. And I contend that most people dont really use their laptops away from a power outlet very often for extended periods of time. (We have smartphones for that). So I am not talking about gaming powerhouses here, although personally I would buy a thousand dollar gaming lapotop *and* a smartphone or ipad with the money left over.

Edit: I know these devices are targeted at professionals, but would both Intel and MS not make more money overall if the price were not prohibitive and they sold a lot more units at a lower price.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Skylake motherboard update:

Apparently MSI has a solution for the non-existent "problem" of Skylake motherboards bending: ("Well, there is no problem, but here is a way to fix it". Okaaay, whatever.)

MSI socket brace

 

[RussianSensation]

Skylake motherboard update:

Apparently MSI has a solution for the non-existent "problem" of Skylake motherboards bending: ("Well, there is no problem, but here is a way to fix it". Okaaay, whatever.)

MSI socket brace

What do you mean non-existent problem? It's 100% real. MSI wouldn't be releasing a fix if the problem was just made up.

Overclockers reports 2 deformed/ruined i5-6600Ks. Both CPUs went into 100C throttling mode --> both are useless now. The problem didn't reveal itself for months:

Interestingly enough, they also had a chance to remove the IHS on one of those CPUs and as expected CPU temps dropped 10-20*C (i7 4770K says hi!)
http://www.overclockers.ua/news/hardware/2015-12-18/117188/

Intel's marketing cannot hide the fact that they cheapened out on PCB design and TIM on the mainstream platform. Intel's excellent i5/i7 Nehalem-> Haswell CPUs never had these PCB problems. No excuses.

There is a cheap and effective fix:

Considering the awful performance drops on Core i5 Skylake in modern AAA games such as GTA V, TW3, Crysis 3 compared to the i7, the only 2 CPUs that are actually worth buying long-term for someone with a GTX970/390 or greater are i7 6700/6700K.

Proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g_t_gJnavI

Once we look at current prices of i7 6700K in North America, the i7 4790K looks like a clear winner (and yes you can get PCIe 3.0 x4 speeds on Z97 too), while if someone can get an i7 5820K/i7 5930K at MicroCenter/Frys for $320-400, the choice is even easier given better all-around performance + 8-10 core Broadwell-E upgrade path.

No doubt SKL-E will fix the mess of the mainstream 1st gen SLK CPUs. Thus far, this is easily the worst mainstream desktop release among Intel's major architectures: Nehalem/Lynnfield -> Sandy -> Haswell. When i7 2600K came out, in overclocked form, it smoked the previous gen's 6-core CPU in almost all benchmarks. i7 6700K cannot claim any such feats against i7 5820K/5930K, nevermind against the soon to launch 6800K.

With more and more games taking advanage of more than 4 threads, the peasant i5 is struggling while the mainstream quad i7 is looking mighty overpriced against i7 4790K and 6-core X99 chips.

Hopefully the next major architecture Icelake actually lives up to the past greats and maybe Intel finally delivers a 6-core HT mainstream chip. :thumbsup:

The sad part is i7 6700K is actually selling well at $500 US on Amazon. Earlier today the stock was over 20 units and now it's down to just 11. Fingers crossed Intel doesn't realize how irrational some of its customers are to pay $500 U.S. for a quad-core when it's almost 2016, and decides to raise the price of the quad-core Kaby Lake i7 to $499 based on i7 6700K as a precedent.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Skylake motherboard update:

Apparently MSI has a solution for the non-existent "problem" of Skylake motherboards bending: ("Well, there is no problem, but here is a way to fix it". Okaaay, whatever.)

MSI socket brace

PR is PR. MSI is there to sell MSI. If this can move a few more sales...

 

[Arachnotronic]

My patience will suffer a lot

Thanks :thumbsup:

Indeed. I'm quite looking forward to SKL-E. Now that the server cores will be differentiated compared to the mainstream cores, the fact that HEDT is an architecture gen behind mainstream isn't such a problem.

 

[frozentundra123456]

What do you mean non-existent problem? It's 100% real. MSI wouldn't be releasing a fix if the problem was just made up.

Snip the wall of text and ususal anti i5 rant.

Guess your sarcasm detector is broken????

 

[jpiniero]

Indeed. I'm quite looking forward to SKL-E. Now that the server cores will be differentiated compared to the mainstream cores, the fact that HEDT is an architecture gen behind mainstream isn't such a problem.

It looks to me that Skylake-E might be a client core and not server.

 

[Ajay]

Skylake motherboard update:

Apparently MSI has a solution for the non-existent "problem" of Skylake motherboards bending: ("Well, there is no problem, but here is a way to fix it". Okaaay, whatever.)

MSI socket brace

Outcome of another 'side' project:

MSI had already been developing the CPU GUARD 1151 as a brace for delidded CPUs. It’s designed to brace the corners of a cooling block or heatsink when cooling bare exposed CPU cores, but it can easily be used as additional support without removing the heatspreader from your processor.

Looks like MSI is going after hard core enthusiasts.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It looks to me that Skylake-E might be a client core and not server.

I don't think so. Skylake-E will use a different package than Skylake-EP (LGA 2011 v4 for SKL-E; LGA 3467 or something for EP), but it will support four memory channels instead of two, and likely include AVX-512 support.

This points to a cut down SKL-EP rather than yet another separate die aimed squarely at HEDT/1S workstations.

 

[jpiniero]

This points to a cut down SKL-EP rather than yet another separate die aimed squarely at HEDT/1S workstations.

That's what it looks like to me what is happening. Client core but quad channel and 2.5 MB L3/core instead of 2 MB. I guess we will see.

There is a method to this madness, my idea is that HEDT/1P would be put on a high-frequency process (in the long term) as opposed to mainstream and server which would be on a more... thrifty process. Won't say it'll happen though since it seems like it would be a high risk to try to do two processes when they are having so many problems as it is.

 

[LTC8K6]

So the brace was really developed for delidded cpus, and it just happens to be good marketing to say that it also helps with very heavy coolers that might damage the CPU/socket?

Still nothing to indicate that the SL PCB is a problem?

 

[Ajay]

So the brace was really developed for delidded cpus, and it just happens to be good marketing to say that it also helps with very heavy coolers that might damage the CPU/socket?

Still nothing to indicate that the SL PCB is a problem?

Brilliant marketing actually!

 

[dahorns]

No but you can get a 350.00 laptop with equal performance (and maybe even better because it wont throttle). And you can get an atom windows tablet for 100.00ish, or even an ipad for a few hundred.

All you sacrifice is portability and battery life. And I contend that most people dont really use their laptops away from a power outlet very often for extended periods of time. (We have smartphones for that). So I am not talking about gaming powerhouses here, although personally I would buy a thousand dollar gaming lapotop *and* a smartphone or ipad with the money left over.

Edit: I know these devices are targeted at professionals, but would both Intel and MS not make more money overall if the price were not prohibitive and they sold a lot more units at a lower price.

Apples increasing market share and dominance on the highend is a strong indication that you are wrong.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Apples increasing market share and dominance on the highend is a strong indication that you are wrong.

All the more reason for MS to make a cheaper version. All the people with more money than they know what to do with have migrated to apple.

Seriously though, I dont really know Apple's share of the market in laptops. I dont think it is more than to or fifteen percent. But, their products sell well for a variety of reasons, mostly brand image, decent but not outstanding hardware, and most of all the software and integrated ecosystem. You can find very expensive outliers, but ultrabooks in general are much more competitively priced than SP4. (Edit: Or at least you can find lower price models that don't force CoreM down your throat like Surface Pro.)


And if you want to talk about tablets, even the iPad pro WITH CELLULAR, is half the price of a loaded surface pro, and only a couple hundred more expensive than the cheapest SP. Yes, you lose windows, but in return you get the apple ecosystem with a huge number of apps. Edit 2: I just cant believe Intel still doesnt have a competitive integrated cellular solution. How long have apple and ARM tablets had this??

 

[Arachnotronic]

And if you want to talk about tablets, even the iPad pro WITH CELLULAR, is half the price of a loaded surface pro, and only a couple hundred more expensive than the cheapest SP. Yes, you lose windows, but in return you get the apple ecosystem with a huge number of apps. Edit 2: I just cant believe Intel still doesnt have a competitive integrated cellular solution. How long have apple and ARM tablets had this??

Apple doesn't have any cellular solution either. It uses discrete modems from Qualcomm.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Dang, I've had Sandy Bridge for five freakin' years and it looks like it's finally at the point where the performance boost is enough to justify a rebuild upgrade. Definitely waiting for Intel to fix the teething problems with Skylake. Why do they keep cheaping out on stupid stuff? I might go with a six-core I7-5820K when the time comes unless a Skylake counterpart comes out. Still not in any rush, though. I have never had a build for this long, _ever_. Since I don't game (I'm an Adobe guy) I'm not as sensitive to frame rates and such. I don't think I've commented here for two years! Thanks to everyone for laying out the details here about the motherboard chipsets and such. Now I basically know what I want, and it's probably going to be the Z170 (or its successor) if I go with Skylake down the road. Cheers.