Desktop volume down 16%, Notebook up 16% but ASP down 7%.
Q4 forecast is bad too, they are expecting 14% decline in revenue compared to Q4 last year.
The best quarters intel had before ZEN were at around 3.6bil two times, was intel in trouble back then? This quarter they made 4.3bil which is still better than any quarter they had before they were "in trouble" and no, there is no bias in that, intel is still making lots of money and they do it by selling ancient technology stretching out profits for years to come.
Does anybody know anything about this:
is this universal?! If this also applies to AMD then it's no wonder they increased prices and removed the cooler, 5% more taxes is no small matter.
Tax Rate 15.2% 10.8%
How is owning more of your company a bad thing?
Intel paid dividends of $1.4 billion in this quarter how is keeping more of that a bad thing?
The fact that x number of models are offered has NOTHING to do with how good those models perform, or the sales trends. Did you see the recent decisions on what hardware to use in the new supercomputers ? EPYC. Have you seen the benchmarks and prices of the current models, EPYC vs Xeon ? In every category, EPYC wins, and Milan is coming soon. How long do you think Intel can deceive its customers on what good their hardware is compared to the competition ? Being in denial is not good.Intel is doing fine. Not great, but fine.
Intel servers are still like 8-9 out of 10 models offered by HP/Dell/Lenovo. Intel also offers hundreds of laptop models compared to tens of AMD. OEM/pre-built all-in-ones and desktops are also largely owned by Intel.
AMD dominates in DIY desktop and HEDT sales and just started to be adopted in laptops.
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Late 2021 should bring Sapphire Rapids and Alder Lake. Both on yet another 10nm. These products have potential - advanced packaging for SPR and +20% IPC for ADL's Golden cores.
In other words, Intel will see itself on 10nm.
Intel will always be the king of quantity, that quantity is in no real danger anytime soon unless both AMD and TSMC expand tremendously and quickly (likely not worth the cost). So Intel will survive on that alone.Intel servers are still like 8-9 out of 10 models offered by HP/Dell/Lenovo. Intel also offers hundreds of laptop models compared to tens of AMD. OEM/pre-built all-in-ones and desktops are also largely owned by Intel.
It's cliché time. Betamax, DEC Alpha, or BeOS were advanced tech, but didn't break into the market. The competition was technologically inferior but managed to prevail.
Like I said, Intel still have a roadmap of potentially very solid products. Both unreleased Cove architectures are reportedly aiming at 20% IPC gains. Intel will likely do the same thing as AMD did with GF's failed 7nm and migrate bleeding edge to TSMC. So ASP should be covered.
SPR should finally replace those 14nm abominations. So the server market is happy - new shiny products and nice powerpoint graphs. The show goes on.
About the bleeding edge... Sure, Intel 10nm has been an utter disaster. So no bleeding edge. However, is there really no way they will fix that in late 2021? Is there no way SPR competing with Milan due to a better interconnect and/or packaging tech? Is there no way Alder Lake's power management actually doing the job in the laptop field?
Does it mean that Intel probably will rely on the TSMC 5nm foundry that will be build in the USA?
These are very interesting questions. Intel needs to selectively aim a few high_margin/low_volume product lines to be outsourced to TSMC. As for winning the capacity, I guess they will simply pay more than the others aka "financial horsepower".And how much capacity does TSMC really have on their leading edge nodes? With Apple and AMD moving onto 5nm and likely buying about as much silicon as they can, there might be a lot of space left in the 7nm/6nm that would likely be better than 14+++++ mass capacity that Intel has.
While using TSMC is certainly going to be a much needed pressure release valve on what I am sure are very unfun meetings at Intel HQ, it's one of those situations where they are going to be funding what has to be seen as their primary long term competitor. That's always a chancy strategic move.
Ice Lake-SP is another victim of the 10nm disaster. It was planned as a 2019 (maybe earlier) product - considering its core count and features. Now it seems possible they won't even bother with the highest core count dies.If all went as planned by its own roadmaps Intel would have had (fully working) 14nm back in 2013, 10nm in 2015, 7nm in 2017, 5nm in 2019. We now are at the end of 2020 and 10nm still seems to go far from smoothly (where is Ice Lake-SP?). What roadmaps do actually look realistically good?
yeaa exactly employee stock options. It just shows they dont know what to do.
They wouldn't be able to rely on it for much. I don't recall the figures off the top of my head but I did the math when it was announced (since people were claiming Apple's SoCs would start getting made in the USA) and if that fab was 100% dedicated to making iPhone SoCs (not even iPad etc. just iPhones) and had 100% yields, it could only serve about 75% of Apple's yearly demand. It will be nowhere near the size of TSMC's fabs in Taiwan.
It is also not built yet, and by the time it is TSMC's leading edge will be N3P or possibly even N2. It will basically be an N+2 fab by the time it reaches full production. This fab isn't intended to serve US customers who want leading edge capacity like Apple, or Intel (to the extent they might start using TSMC for leading edge products)
My bet was and still is that it will end up serving a lot of defense contractors, who need a US based fab for security reasons. I haven't heard anything about this fab being able to handle classified stuff, but being based in the US, and owned by a friendly country, all they really need is a controlled access line that's separate from the rest (both hardware & software) where you need to be a cleared US citizen to work.
Nothing personal, but I am really sick of hearing "Intel has this on their roadmap" and "in xxx timeframe they will have yyy product".It's cliché time. Betamax, DEC Alpha, or BeOS were advanced tech, but didn't break into the market. The competition was technologically inferior but managed to prevail.
Like I said, Intel still have a roadmap of potentially very solid products. Both unreleased Cove architectures are reportedly aiming at 20% IPC gains. Intel will likely do the same thing as AMD did with GF's failed 7nm and migrate bleeding edge to TSMC. So ASP should be covered.
SPR should finally replace those 14nm abominations. So the server market is happy - new shiny products and nice powerpoint graphs. The show goes on.
About the bleeding edge... Sure, Intel 10nm has been an utter disaster. So no bleeding edge. However, is there really no way they will fix that in late 2021? Is there no way SPR competing with Milan due to a better interconnect and/or packaging tech? Is there no way Alder Lake's power management actually doing the job in the laptop field?
Mark, this is a thread about the financial results.They are losing badly in server, HEDT, and in 2 weeks, desktop. And their laptops are fighting with the new Renior chips.
"Intel beat estimates overall as work from home continued because of the coronavirus pandemic. "
Oh, I'm well aware, but did they lose money? Did they beat the estimates? There are multiple things killing the margins, but they are still doing better than what WS expected. Plus, they aren't losing in the markets that some people like to claim.Ramping up Tiger Lake is killing the margins. Having to cut Server prices because of AMD is killing the margins. They can't sell 14 nm forever.
Oh, I'm well aware, but did they lose money?
My comments speak to their ability to continue to make money, so it is on-topic. And if you can't see the performance numbers from reading on the forums, and the internet, well, I pity you. I don't need to provide proof. You are ignoring the "negative equity" due to stock buybacks ? You are willing to ignore them losing market share becuase of inferior products ? All of these affect their continued ability to make money. It can't continue forever, you don't see that ? You don't think thats a bad thing ?Mark, this is a thread about the financial results.
Intel drops on weak results for its data center group
The pandemic fueled growth in Intel's PC business, but data center spending fell off in the quarter.www.cnbc.com
"Intel beat estimates overall as work from home continued because of the coronavirus pandemic. "
Can you please show us data where Intel is "losing badly" in Server, HEDT and in desktops and fight with AMD on the laptop front? Please show the overall percentages and Profit After Tax for both Intel and AMD, that backs up your statement.
I know someone mentioned BIAS, but you are making comments in a thread regarding financial results and the comments you are making are not in line with the actual data.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Benchmarks do not always equate to revenue and sales.
My comments speak to their ability to continue to make money, so it is on-topic. And if you can't see the performance numbers from reading on the forums, and the internet, well, I pity you. I don't need to provide proof. You are ignoring the "negative equity" due to stock buybacks ? You are willing to ignore them losing market share becuase of inferior products ? All of these affect their continued ability to make money. It can't continue forever, you don't see that ? You don't think thats a bad thing ?
From your own link :
"Intel shares fell as much as 10% in extended trading on Thursday after the company reported fiscal third-quarter earnings that were stronger than analysts had expected but showed new weakness in its data center business. "
You don't think EPYC had something to do with that ? Its all related. 10% stock drop is not small.
Here is a comparison... Back in the 50's and 60's American cars ruled (at least in America) Then in the 70's and 80's the Japanese imports came along. The car industry has never been the same. Even to this day, they fight to stay alive. They are doing OK< but the import world has gone from a small percentage to the majority of cars (or at least a large percentage) in the US. I see a strong possibility of AMD doing something like this. It may take them 10 years, like the US automakers took to come back.
You know, there are stats from Euope showing the sellers and quantities, AMD way ahead. There are stats on the top selling CPUs at =Amazon, AMD way ahead.. The stock for Intel has dropped from a high of about 70 this year to 48. AMD has gone up from about 50 to 82 over the same period.Do you think the slow down in business/server sales, due to COVID, could not also have something to do with that?
Are you attributing the weakness to EPYC? Or is it ARM (Amazon and others)? What is EPYC market share from 2019 to 2020? Again, you provide no relevant DATA, you just make claims and move on.
Well, yes, I see it as a bad thing, but I also realize that Intel can outlast a few years and come back strong. They have a war chest of money, they aren't losing money. People need to see this with their eyes wide open. GM took a bailout and was close to bankruptcy (not nearly as dramatic as this, but they've bounced back and are now have the second largest selling vehicle.
Again, a year ago I saw people saying Intel was dead! lol.
I've worked for a couple of Fortune 50 companies. People selling off shares even after beating estimates, is not a new trend. People have an estimate of companies beating their WS predictions. They expect them to be in trend with previous years. So even if a company is doing better than WS expects, they have customers who will sell off because iit isn't the same percentage as past years. This happens way more frequently than you can imagine. I've worked for several Fortune 50 companies. Even doing well in the bad times, it has a tendency to bring the stock down. You just never want a stock downgrade.
I know it's easy to jump on the people selling off stock, but that's where you can make the real money is knowing a long term company will bounce back.
It's not due to inferior products, it's due to the market. It's a huge gambling game and you cannot use it for a real idea of what the company is capable of or doing.
Hell, Tesla was at $200 for YEARSSSSSSS. You know what it's worth now? Even after the battery announcement and a lot of people selling off because they knew the stock would drop?
But please, show me some data about how well AMD has taken over those markets you mentioned. If you can't, that's fine. I'd be really interested to see the market share numbers. Not someone rambling with no knowledge of the market and financials.
Well, you could have bought AMD. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to buy intel.This is what Intel gets for making me choose between 6 slower cores for $700 and 4 faster ones for $500. They can suck it.
I'll reply to this as an example. You haven't provided any data to support your claims that AMD is winning those market segments as you suggest. Those are benchmarks, not actually sales figure.
You seem to hone in on high performance desktops and gaming. You might want to actually look at their overall portfolio of products and the actual numbers.