Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

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DAPUNISHER

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I think there is a little more to this. There is no such thing as "Default" settings. If they set the power limit to the very low power limit (153W ?) they reduced the performance of their computers below their advertised performance.

If the CPUs were crashing consistently, they may already have accrued some silicon degradation, which is irreversible, and it may start to manifest itself again even at lower power settings.
If that's the case, it should be on the list of reasons why the lawsuits need to happen. Also on the list: their continuing to sell the defective CPUs without fully mitigating the degradation first. Along with via oxidation damage. I don't care if affected owners, besides having a longer warranty, only get a coupon for a free frosty. And we add more lawyers to the top .1%; punitive actions against anti consumer corporations must happen. Nvidia and AMD lost and settled over much less serious hardware issues.
 

think2

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Dec 29, 2009
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I bought a brand new Intel I7 14700K Windows PC a few weeks ago and it's been crashing ever since I got it. It just restarts for no reason and event viewer says "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first." The workload is very low and it's not overclocked. It's seemed to crash mostly when it's doing nothing. I installed a new BIOS from gigabyte a few days ago with the 0x12B microcode and my machine has crashed twice since - both times were when it was doing nothing at all. Why does my machine still crash when it's doing nothing if the new microcode stops the over-voltage problem? If the CPU is damaged wouldn't it be more likely to crash when it is busy. Is there any way to tell if the CPU is damaged? Would Intel supply a new micro for free based on these symptoms - is there any way of asking them?
 
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I installed a new BIOS from gigabyte a few days ago with the 0x12B microcode and my machine has crashed twice since - both times were when it was doing nothing at all.
Is your RAM kit on Gigabyte's QVL? Which kit is it? Maybe create a new thread in the Computer Building section because this may require a lot of troubleshooting to pinpoint the actual cause of your CPU's instability.
 

think2

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Dec 29, 2009
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Is your RAM kit on Gigabyte's QVL? Which kit is it? Maybe create a new thread in the Computer Building section because this may require a lot of troubleshooting to pinpoint the actual cause of your CPU's instability.
The machine was built by a leading tech shop here and parts are guaranteed compatible. The RAM IS G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 32GB DDR5 F5-6000J3636F16GX2-RS5K running at 4800 - deliberately not as fast as it could as it's a development machine, not gaming.
I didn't want to hand over the machine to the shop and deprive myself of its use without understanding a bit more about what could cause the crash and I especially don't want a new CPU fitted without trying to find out more about why it crashes.

 

DAPUNISHER

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I agree about starting a new thread for getting help with a prebuilt PC that is crashing. This is not the proper thread to do the troubleshoot.

I will provide some feedback quickly: If the PC is past the return window you will have to deal with the system integrator that built it, as they provide the warranty. Intel will just direct you to that S.I./tech shop if you contact Intel tech support. If you had bought the CPU retail boxed then Intel would provide support and RMA service directly.
 
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think2

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It's still under warranty. If I start a new thread, which is the best forum? I suspect there may be knowledge and expertise here that the tech shop doesn't have but I could be wrong.
 

Kocicak

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Jan 17, 2019
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I bought a brand new Intel I7 14700K Windows PC a few weeks ago and it's been crashing ever since I got it. It just restarts for no reason and event viewer says "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first." The workload is very low and it's not overclocked. It's seemed to crash mostly when it's doing nothing. I installed a new BIOS from gigabyte a few days ago with the 0x12B microcode and my machine has crashed twice since - both times were when it was doing nothing at all. Why does my machine still crash when it's doing nothing if the new microcode stops the over-voltage problem?
My Gigabyte system (with Z790 Elite AX) was rock stable, it started crashing after I updated the BIOS for the August microcode update. I had to revert back to the previous BIOS, crashing stopped.

Yesterday I updated BIOS with the 12B Microcode fix, it has not crashed yet, but I somehow expect it.

You do not need a BIOS update to prevent degradation of these CPUs, you just need to limit frequency and power draw. 5200 MHz limit for P cores and 180W power limits seem pretty safe to me.
 
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Markfw

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My Gigabyte system (with Z790 Elite AX) was rock stable, it started crashing after I updated the BIOS for the August microcode update. I had to revert back to the previous BIOS, crashing stopped.

Yesterday I updated BIOS with the 12B Microcode fix, it has not crashed yet, but I somehow expect it.

You do not need a BIOS update to prevent degradation of these CPUs, you just need to limit frequency and power draw. 5200 MHz limit for P cores and 180W power limits seem pretty safe to me.
Even if that is true, it now performs WAY less than what was benchmarked and you may have expected(and paid for). Zen 5 will crush it now on any benchmark I would guess. That is the biggest reason, that even if its stable, its a BIG failure on Intels part.
 

Kocicak

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Even if that is true, it now performs WAY less than what was benchmarked
specified? I knew that these CPUs were sold with wrong specs, I expected to tone them down and I also got my 13900KS new for a very good price, I payed just equivalent of 430$ incl. VAT for it, it is currently limited to 5500 MHz and 180W and I am very happy with it.
 
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Steltek

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Rumors are Arrow Lake gaming performance won't beat Raptor Lake. If gaming performance is important and the rumors are true, it may not be worth upgrading.
Yeah, a lot of the reviewers (who are still under non-disclosure) are hinting that this is the case in lieu of being able to outright say it yet.

While the features on some of the new z890 motherboards look really nice, I wouldn't consider them to be worth the total cost of a side-grade if the Raptor Lake fix holds.
 

blckgrffn

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www.teamjuchems.com
Yeah, a lot of the reviewers (who are still under non-disclosure) are hinting that this is the case in lieu of being able to outright say it yet.

While the features on some of the new z890 motherboards look really nice, I wouldn't consider them to be worth the total cost of a side-grade if the Raptor Lake fix holds.

I still won't be sad if I can get Microcenter bundles and leave 13th &14th gen behind - its a lot of trust Intel really has it nailed down. I give my certainty at 98% but it will be nice to just move on. All of the best Alder Lake deals still use DDR4 and I am ready to get past that.

The silver lining for me was that all the best deals were Alder Lake and while I used and built a number of 12th gen systems, I never built or recommended any 13th or 14th gen. Credit for that goes to AMD x3D chips as by the time you could buy a "nice" i7 you were in the 7800x3D's price range.
 

AdamK47

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I still won't be sad if I can get Microcenter bundles and leave 13th &14th gen behind - its a lot of trust Intel really has it nailed down. I give my certainty at 98% but it will be nice to just move on. All of the best Alder Lake deals still use DDR4 and I am ready to get past that.

The silver lining for me was that all the best deals were Alder Lake and while I used and built a number of 12th gen systems, I never built or recommended any 13th or 14th gen. Credit for that goes to AMD x3D chips as by the time you could buy a "nice" i7 you were in the 7800x3D's price range.
Power usage and thermals will be much lower on Alder Lake. That's something to consider even if performance is equal.

This cycle of CPU releases has been underwhelming. I'd still go with AMD. 9800X3D ~10% better performance over 7800X3D. It's not nothing.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Rumors are Arrow Lake gaming performance won't beat Raptor Lake. If gaming performance is important and the rumors are true, it may not be worth upgrading.
Setting aside that we'd be rewarding Intel for the worst shenanigans ever seen in the CPU space. Arrow to the knee lake will be terrible bang for buck at launch if the price performance is accurate. Nor have they confirmed there will even be a tock on the platform. It could potentially be one and done. That would also kill resale value.The scenario would be - Last gen gaming performance on a DOA platform, what's not to like?

Jay calls it their Zen 1 moment. No Jay you disingenuous shill, not even close. Zen 1 was a massive improvement in every way over FX.

The rapture lake drama may be on simmer, but it isn't done cooking yet.
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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Jay calls it their Zen 1 moment. No Jay you disingenuous shill, not even close. Zen 1 was a massive improvement in every way over FX.
Jay is confused, he talks about similarities between Intel's tiled design and AMD's chiplet design with Zen 1. First gen Ryzen was monolithic, though the dual-CCX arrangement did create problems with gaming obviously. Zen 2 was their chiplet based arch.

His idea, though poorly explained, does depict the stage Intel is going through right now: they are in the process of taking a performance hit to make their products scale better in the future. Arrow IV Lake is definitely not a Zen moment, because ARL is in fact still a bi-product of experimentation and Intel hubris with regards to leapfrogging the simple and arguably rudimentary chiplet design that carried AMD all these years. Intel had this mentality that they never play catch-up, they leapfrog. (and many times in recent history they leapfrogged spectacularly wrong)

If there's one product that might have been a Zen 1 moment for Intel, Lunar Lake would be it. It was designed with purpose, intent, and with a surprisingly good vision for the future. One can look at Lunar Lake's internal structure and see a blueprint for Intel's future execution in the mobile space. Unfortunately this aspect is only half of the Zen equation, the other half is sustained execution and refinement. The first product is just a solid foundation, a physical manifestation of a vision that spans many years and an acknowledgment that catching the competition (Apple) would take multiple milestones. However, it's unclear if LNL will get further iterations or at least influence future designs with it's unique uncore approach.

That being said, back to you Jay!
1728938220489.png
 

DAPUNISHER

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Gratitude for the insight.

With both vendors concentrating on other performance areas, I guess us PC gamers are second class citizens again. That is, now that raptor owners will no longer be treated like hostages/victims. :p
 

DAPUNISHER

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lol.

"Another wanderer YouTuber, here to lick my father's Intel's boots. Good job."
Surprisingly, looks like Aussie Steve is going to be on all fours right next to J. He says he won't roast arrow the way he did Zen 5 because Intel didn't hype it up. WTF M8? So as long as a company says our product is mid they get a free pass? What sort of nonsense is that? Did everyone go deep on INTC when it went below $19?

Rapture lake has disrupted the CPU market through its abject failures. As I posit that the reason 3D CPUs besides the 5700X3D are so expensive and in such short supply, is demand spiked due to how many of the burned rapture owners are moving over. Compounded by how many new build shoppers have scratched it off the list. Intel says it's completely fixed. Yes indeed, they have been so honest and forthcoming the last couple of years, we should definitely consider it case closed. They also have my complete certitude that mobile variants are not affected. :p
 

Joe NYC

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Surprisingly, looks like Aussie Steve is going to be on all fours right next to J. He says he won't roast arrow the way he did Zen 5 because Intel didn't hype it up. WTF M8? So as long as a company says our product is mid they get a free pass? What sort of nonsense is that? Did everyone go deep on INTC when it went below $19?

Rapture lake has disrupted the CPU market through its abject failures. As I posit that the reason 3D CPUs besides the 5700X3D are so expensive and in such short supply, is demand spiked due to how many of the burned rapture owners are moving over. Compounded by how many new build shoppers have scratched it off the list. Intel says it's completely fixed. Yes indeed, they have been so honest and forthcoming the last couple of years, we should definitely consider it case closed. They also have my complete certitude that mobile variants are not affected. :p

BTW, you can still get 5800x3d from AMD.com, but the price may not be as discounted as it used to be elsewhere.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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BTW, you can still get 5800x3d from AMD.com, but the price may not be as discounted as it used to be elsewhere.
Didn't even think to look there. That's the best price I've seen in the last couple of months for NIB with full warranty. Still a terrible deal v. the 5700X3D which drops to $180 or so occasionally. That's the real problem, supply and demand has jacked the prices up. I bought my first 5800X3D on Amazon for $260+tax summer 2023. I don't think retailers were ready for the shift due to raptor lake becoming leper lake.
 

Rigg

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Surprisingly, looks like Aussie Steve is going to be on all fours right next to J. He says he won't roast arrow the way he did Zen 5 because Intel didn't hype it up. WTF M8? So as long as a company says our product is mid they get a free pass? What sort of nonsense is that? Did everyone go deep on INTC when it went below $19?

Rapture lake has disrupted the CPU market through its abject failures. As I posit that the reason 3D CPUs besides the 5700X3D are so expensive and in such short supply, is demand spiked due to how many of the burned rapture owners are moving over. Compounded by how many new build shoppers have scratched it off the list. Intel says it's completely fixed. Yes indeed, they have been so honest and forthcoming the last couple of years, we should definitely consider it case closed. They also have my complete certitude that mobile variants are not affected. :p
It sounds like arrow in the knee lake will be a side grade performance wise and a step up in efficiency from Raptor. While its good that Intel doesn't appear to be over promising and under delivering here, that in no way should absolve them from harsh criticism. The bottom line is they deserve just as much harsh criticism as Zen 5 got if they aren't offering a step forward in price to performance over Raptor. Efficiency gains and setting reasonable expectations are positives worthy of mention but should not give them a free pass for not moving the needle on performance. Hopefully Steve's review is fair and objective. I hope he doesn't make excuses for Intel that he wasn't willing to make for Zen5. That would really hurt their credibility and damage the HUB brand.

I agree that Intel's raptor lake bed soiling probably spiked X3D demand a bit but I suspect some of this is scarcity on the supply side with Zen 5 X3D production in full swing. I don't see any incentive to keep zen 4 in production moving forward with it being on the same node as Zen 5.

Yeah, Intel can pound sand. I don't trust that any of this is actually fixed. Time will tell. I won't even consider them for the foreseeable future after this debacle.