Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Covfefe]

"Only the thing that matters to end user UX slows down" is a very funny way to put it.

You don't think battery life matters to users? I think most people would happily take marginally worse page load times for massively better battery life.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You don't think battery life matters to users? I think most people would happily take marginally worse page load times for massively better battery life.

They're not "manually worse", JS perf is halved.

 

[Joe NYC]

It's a commodity market full of poverty.
They're very much aiming at premium share.

It is a big market. AMD is not going to get the premium share if it is not strong enough in the mainstream segment.

 

[Covfefe]

They're not "manually worse", JS perf is halved.

That's not how that works, lol. Halving javascript performance doesn't double page load times.

 

[adroc_thurston]

AMD is not going to get the premium share if it is not strong enough in the mainstream segment.

Lmao get real.
Apple earns their cash by having zero mainstream presence until later this year.

That's not how that works, lol. Halving javascript performance doesn't double page load times.

It's still gonna impact it severely, plus perceived UX will be much much worse.
Unless you think JS happens once-on-load and never again.

 

[511]

英特尔Ultra X9深度评测：完美的轻薄本处理器！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

英特尔最强的核显CPU来啦！快来看看今年轻薄本的新品——Panther Lake-H或者说X9 388H，在大幅增强能效和GPU后，游戏表现能否赶上前几年的独显游戏本呢？, 视频播放量 79010、弹幕量 636、点赞数 4314、投硬币枚数 845、收藏人数 937、转发人数 571, 视频作者 极客湾Geekerwan, 作者简介 爱折腾、超硬核的科技数码频道！商务合作请联系：bd@geekerwan.com，相关视频：Ultra X9 388H性能分析：重铸Intel荣光，Clawdbot硅谷爆火！Mac...

www.bilibili.com

 

[msj10]

View attachment 137370

英特尔Ultra X9深度评测：完美的轻薄本处理器！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

英特尔最强的核显CPU来啦！快来看看今年轻薄本的新品——Panther Lake-H或者说X9 388H，在大幅增强能效和GPU后，游戏表现能否赶上前几年的独显游戏本呢？, 视频播放量 79010、弹幕量 636、点赞数 4314、投硬币枚数 845、收藏人数 937、转发人数 571, 视频作者 极客湾Geekerwan, 作者简介 爱折腾、超硬核的科技数码频道！商务合作请联系：bd@geekerwan.com，相关视频：Ultra X9 388H性能分析：重铸Intel荣光，Clawdbot硅谷爆火！Mac...

www.bilibili.com

Zen 5 is a joke lol

 

[regen1]

View attachment 137370

英特尔Ultra X9深度评测：完美的轻薄本处理器！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

英特尔最强的核显CPU来啦！快来看看今年轻薄本的新品——Panther Lake-H或者说X9 388H，在大幅增强能效和GPU后，游戏表现能否赶上前几年的独显游戏本呢？, 视频播放量 79010、弹幕量 636、点赞数 4314、投硬币枚数 845、收藏人数 937、转发人数 571, 视频作者 极客湾Geekerwan, 作者简介 爱折腾、超硬核的科技数码频道！商务合作请联系：bd@geekerwan.com，相关视频：Ultra X9 388H性能分析：重铸Intel荣光，Clawdbot硅谷爆火！Mac...

www.bilibili.com

Darkmont @3.8 in PTL ahead of Lion Cove in ARL-H @3.8.
Good progress on E-core side and also to an extent the fabric/L3 has held back Lion Cove in ARL-H.

 

[Josh128]

Zen 5 is a joke lol

That leaked +10% IPC for Zen 6, if it applies to SPEC, still wont be enough to match this. Not a great look.

 

[adroc_thurston]

That leaked +10% IPC for Zen 6, if it applies to SPEC, still wont be enough to match this. Not a great look.

too bad about the speed delta.

 

[Josh128]

too bad about the speed delta.

If only we knew what it is. Zen 5 desktop clocks 12% faster than Zen 5 mobile on same process node, so even if Zen 6 DT clocks to 6.3G, the same 12% applied delta to mobile would put it at ~5.6G.

 

[adroc_thurston]

If only we knew what it is.

a lot.
Not that it matters much, mainstream mobile will only get the poverty Zen implementations until Zen8 or Zen9.

 

[Covfefe]

I tested throttling in devtools. I loaded forums.anandtech.com in a fresh incognito window. They have a limited number of performance throttling options so I can't do 2x slowdown. FCP stands for first contextual paint, when you first see something that resembles the website. LCP stands for largest contextual paint, AKA when the page is fully loaded.

​	FCP (milliseconds)​	LCP (milliseconds)​	LCP increase over baseline​
no throttle​	710​	731​	0%​
4x slowdown​	812​	951​	30%​
20x slowdown​	2050​	5470​	648%​

So Panther Lake laptops with 0.54x performance on battery would take about 15% longer to load pages on this forum.

 

[adroc_thurston]

would take about 15% longer to load pages on this forum.

This isn't 1999, you're not purely *loading* pages.
They're choke full of very interactive (and fairly slow) JS.

 

[mikegg]

Essentially no improvement from LNL in ST speed and efficiency. Slightly faster ST than LNL but at slightly worse efficiency.

Any battery improvement over LNL is most likely just a trick, IE. extreme throttling, different laptop components, etc.

 

[Khato]

View attachment 137370

英特尔Ultra X9深度评测：完美的轻薄本处理器！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

英特尔最强的核显CPU来啦！快来看看今年轻薄本的新品——Panther Lake-H或者说X9 388H，在大幅增强能效和GPU后，游戏表现能否赶上前几年的独显游戏本呢？, 视频播放量 79010、弹幕量 636、点赞数 4314、投硬币枚数 845、收藏人数 937、转发人数 571, 视频作者 极客湾Geekerwan, 作者简介 爱折腾、超硬核的科技数码频道！商务合作请联系：bd@geekerwan.com，相关视频：Ultra X9 388H性能分析：重铸Intel荣光，Clawdbot硅谷爆火！Mac...

www.bilibili.com

Nice to see that the P cores run at 5.1 GHz exactly as advertised and the resident forum oracle is proven wrong once more.

they're so fine it never actually hits 5G.
Curious definition of 'fine' but whatever I guess.

 

[mikegg]

I tested throttling in devtools. I loaded forums.anandtech.com in a fresh incognito window. They have a limited number of performance throttling options so I can't do 2x slowdown. FCP stands for first contextual paint, when you first see something that resembles the website. LCP stands for largest contextual paint, AKA when the page is fully loaded.

​	FCP (milliseconds)​	LCP (milliseconds)​	LCP increase over baseline​
no throttle​	710​	731​	0%​
4x slowdown​	812​	951​	30%​
20x slowdown​	2050​	5470​	648%​

So Panther Lake laptops with 0.54x performance on battery would take about 15% longer to load pages on this forum.

It lags when you're using web apps. It isn't just first paint. The experience is hugely different.

 

[Covfefe]

It lags when you're using web apps. It isn't just first paint. The experience is hugely different.

I tried facebook, reddit, lego.com all with 4x slowdown. No lag 🤷‍♂️

 

[Joe NYC]

Lmao get real.
Apple earns their cash by having zero mainstream presence until later this year.

To get your laptops sold, you need to have some sway over the OEMs. Apple has 100% of that (over its notebook division).

AMD influence over OEMs is weak. You can notice it by the lack of Stix Halo models. AMD is not gaining the premium market sufficiently.

Since the release of Strix generation, to the next AMD generation, Intel released:
- Lunar Lake
- Panther Lake
- may release Nova Lake

Woody Allen said: "80% of success is showing up"
AMD is not showing up.

 

[adroc_thurston]

AMD influence over OEMs is weak

who even said thatt.

You can notice it by the lack of Stix Halo models. AMD is not gaining the premium market sufficiently.

oh ffs it's a new platform in a new swimlane.

Since the release of Strix generation, to the next AMD generation, Intel released:
- Lunar Lake
- Panther Lake
- may release Nova Lake

Woody Allen said: "80% of success is showing up"
AMD is not showing up.

this is all worthless since all three are flat to barely higher on 1t perf.
Showing up with nothing ain't worth much.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

ancient Sillicon. Dead in the water till Medusa point

It's certainly looking that way. Either Strix Halo comes down from its originally obscene price, or they really don't have anything interesting to show for almost 2 years which is an eternity.

You can notice it by the lack of Stix Halo models. AMD is not gaining the premium market sufficiently.

Well they're appearing now, a full year after release. Which is a bit mind-boggling.
That was not a successful launch, no matter how much talk of new swimlane excuses keep coming up.

Since the release of Strix generation, to the next AMD generation, Intel released:
- Lunar Lake
- Panther Lake
- may release Nova Lake

Couple that with AMD pretty much EOL'ing RDNA3.5 in new software features and the thing is starting to look pretty bleak.
Intel OTOH is supporting XeSS3 in Lunar Lake's and even Arrow Lake H's Xe1 iGPU.


People really shouldn't bet on AMD for longevity right now.

 

[adroc_thurston]

That was not a successful launch, no matter how much talk of new swimlane excuses keep coming up.

Renoir was like in maybe 10 devices for the whole of 2020.
New is hard.

 

[Josh128]

Renoir was like in maybe 10 devices for the whole of 2020.
New is hard.

Pitched a Dell Renoir laptop to my MIL in 2020, now going on 6 years later it has had the s*** used out of it, just replaced the battery, still going strong.

 

[poke01]

if amd released Zen5 Gorgon point on TSMC N3P they would have beaten Panther lake easily. The cpu is very mediocre

 

[adroc_thurston]

if amd released Zen5 Gorgon point on TSMC N3P they would have beaten Panther lake easily. The cpu is very mediocre

Why waste time on a shrink when new IP (Zen6-era stuff) is just ahead.