Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[511]

MSI Stealth 16 AI+ ditches AMD Strix Point in favor of Intel Panther Lake-H, features up to Nvidia RTX 5090 Laptop with new Cooler Boost tech

MSI has unveiled a new Stealth 16 AI+ Copilot+ PC at CES 2026 powered by the latest Intel Pather Lake-H Core Ultra 9 386H, up to a 125 W Nvidia GeForce RTX 5090 Laptop, and up to 128 GB DDR5 RAM. The Stealth 16 AI+ now comes with a new Cooler Boost Intra Flow designed for the thin chassis while...

www.notebookcheck.net

Lmao what are OEMs even doing

Who on earth on MSI ordered this: "on laptop with RTX5090 dGPU, remove the superior STX CPU in favor of PTL which has way way worse CPU"

MSI are using their brains for once cause next gen they can drop in NVL on the same socket.

PTL/NVL and i think Razer Lake are socket compatible so you can just drop them on to the same socket

 

[511]

AMD could release the 8core+40CU Halo last year, not last moment (they just did that now with Halo 388)

do it on a gimped 128bit Bus

 

[fastandfurious6]

MSI are using their brains for once cause next gen they can drop in NVL on the same socket.

PTL/NVL and i think Razer Lake are socket compatible so you can just drop them on to the same socket

Vendor lock-in + inferior product with redundant benefits 😂 genius

 

[MoistOintment]

yes and no:

AMD could release the 8core+40CU Halo last year, not last moment (they just did that now with Halo 388)

Irrelevant. One less CCD isn't moving the cost needle much when it has an iGPU larger than a 5070ti bolted onto it, and more importantly, has special motherboards incompatible with the rest of AMD's lineup or other gaming laptops with dGPUs. That's the issue.

PTL's CPU is weak.
STX does circles around it especially MT.
PTL's only advantage is the GPU perf which is what Intel is pushing. Only because AMD's mobile division is gimped 😉 stuck with old RDNA3.5, STXp is a weird chip in expensive SKUs and Halo too expensive because of bad decisions/deals

We don't really know the performance yet, but it should perform about the same as ARL-H, and nT should be better. We're speculating heavy on who will have better nT, but it's ultimately irrelevant for if it's the right choice for a gaming laptop.

the iGPU is not PTL's only advantage. ARL-H performance at lower wattages mean you can run the dGPUs at a higher wattage without changing the overall power consumption of that laptop. That alone will result in better gaming performance.

 

[jdubs03]

PTL's CPU is weak.
STX does circles around it especially MT.

Based on geekbench this is untrue if you’re talking about the HX370. Not sure where you got that inclination from. Strix Halo does well but with more power draw.

 

[poke01]

Based on geekbench this is untrue if you’re talking about the HX370. Not sure where you got that inclination from. Strix Halo does well but with more power draw.

PTL-H has the around the same MT as Strix point. Not sure where it runs circles around, maybe in his head

 

[Hulk]

As I've written, I have a HX370. It does about 20,000 in CB R23 MT. It's a strong CPU, especially for thin and light mobile.

If we just had that CB R23 number for Panther Lake we'd know a lot.

 

[jdubs03]

As I've written, I have a HX370. It does about 20,000 in CB R23 MT. It's a strong CPU, especially for thin and light mobile.

If we just had that CB R23 number for Panther Lake we'd know a lot.

I think we’ll see CB 2024/2026 results before we get a chance at R23. But notebookcheck will probably be our best bet to see all three.

 

[Hulk]

I think we’ll see CB 2024/2026 results before we get a chance at R23. But notebookcheck will probably be our best bet to see all three.

Intel doing final microcode "fixes" right now?

 

[fastandfurious6]

There is precisely 0% chance PTL has meaningful CPU performance. They would already advertise it like crazy (ARL-H is also weak, HX is the good chip.)

Intel is super desperate.

 

[regen1]

Computerbase updated it's article with more configs/data points.

 

[poke01]

There is precisely 0% chance PTL has meaningful CPU performance. They would already advertise it like crazy (ARL-H is also weak, HX is the good chip.)

Intel is super desperate.

Okay, it’s not like AMD did anything better with Gorgon point CPU or GPU wise. Worse battery life than Panther lake though, maybe that’s something you like.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Okay, it’s not like AMD did anything better with Gorgon point CPU or GPU wise.

they don't have to.

Worse battery life than Panther lake though, maybe that’s something you like.

Yes that is the reason to buy PTL (the one the ships aka 4+0+4).

 

[jdubs03]

Intel doing final microcode "fixes" right now?

More so just that that version is getting a bit long in the tooth now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

18A's parametric yields may be not that "great" but are above what Intel 4 had at that stage.

That is setting a low bar.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

EDIT: Sorry, hadn't seen @regen1 's post.

Panther Lake keeps showing spectacular gaming performance:

Spoiler

And these are tests that should show Strix Halo in its best possible light: low or absent RT, higher base resolution on XeSS 2 and 65W. Panther Lake probably gains next to nothing above 40W unlike STX Halo.
Odds are the 388H beats everything else at 25W or even a bit higher.


Another thing I'm noticing is how a Panther Lake handheld will probably be as fast or even faster than my current Legion Go + RTX 3060 eGPU. The RTX 4050 laptop is usually within 10-15% of the RTX 3060 desktop, and I'm often losing more than that from the low bandwidth PCIe3 x4 controller.

 

[regen1]

That is setting a low bar.

May be but FWIW have to see where it is relative to the previous node family at the stage and timeline of the node-evolution.
Intel 4 wasn't that bad for clocks for its time. First product(MTL) on initial stage of it got 5.1GHz. AMD got Phoenix/Hawk Point(5.2), Strix Point(5.1)/Gorgon Point(5.2) at mature N4 variant(N4P). First N5 family(N5 and N4 variants) product was in 2020. Intel 3 got 5.3GHz for a "-U" class product.

 

[Hulk]

Honestly if Panther Lake can even match HX370 performance and efficiency and significantly beat it in terms of gpu performance then they are on top. Assuming of course competitive pricing and availability.

 

[desrever]

Honestly if Panther Lake can even match HX370 performance and efficiency and significantly beat it in terms of gpu performance then they are on top. Assuming of course competitive pricing and availability.

Would be really sad if it couldn't compete with HX370 on 5nm on performance and efficiency.

Price is what would matter in the end.

 

[DavidC1]

PTL won't really have to compete against Zen6 so it's not too bad. But Intel is lucky Windows on ARM still looks like a big compromise (to say nothing of Qualcomm's platforms not being competent Linux options either) for sure, and would do well to fix their ST stagnation fast.

Right now sure, but it's something they need to fix, because it's future debt.

And why do you think Intel is so focused on battery life now and was ignoring it before lunar lake?

This number 1# feature of laptops: battery life is something Intel didn’t care so deeply until M1 and that changed their focus.

I loved the fanless nature of my Yoga. It's not the fastest, but it'll never get clogged with dust, the battery is kept cooler and degrades less due to lower power consumption.

The average users are mostly on Windows by marketshare data. What Apple has is premium devices, just like always. In the premium space, they are king. Apple Mx chips isn't just efficient, it's fast as well. You can get the fanless nature of my Core Y device with snappiness of a -H one.

And these are tests that should show Strix Halo in its best possible light: low or absent RT, higher base resolution on XeSS 2 and 65W. Panther Lake probably gains next to nothing above 40W unlike STX Halo.
Odds are the 388H beats everything else at 25W or even a bit higher.

It does scale a bit according to this: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-panther-lake-technical-deep-dive/11.html

Maybe 15% over 35W?

How is XeSS quality vs DLSS/FSR3 Balanced in terms of image quality?

Edit: XeSS version update they did a while ago changed the meaning of the naming. XeSS quality post-update is lower than pre-update. Balanced FSR may be comparable to XeSS Quality.

 

[DavidC1]

I think the X variants with the big GPU may save their asses a bit in getting Intel actual returns. It's a 55mm² die (vs 25mm² for the 4Xe) that will have very high yields on N3E so it's really not *that* much of a cost increase but it probably makes a significant difference in what they can charge OEMs for those as this iGPU is basically the only game in town if you want to advertise upgrade-worthy gaming performance without adding a full Nvidia dGPU (and a good few Watts) to your design.

The Ultra 5 338H with the 10 Xe3 core should be 10-15% of the 12 Xe3 version with the maxed memory config.

The average person raving about how good the new Macbooks are isn't talking about their ST performance. They're talking about how it stays room temp while being silent, and how the battery lasts for days, and they can just open it up and use it without 'turning it on'. There are tik-toks / reels I've seen from "normie" accounts making fun of the kid with the windows laptop that has audible fan noise in the college lecture, or how they have to plug their laptop in during class.

People have genuinely grown to expect laptops to behave more like their phones: lightweight, Instant on, silent, cool, long battery.

The performance, or the snappiness also matters. Up until Apple Mx, you had to sacrifice between fanless/almost fanless + excellent battery life and poor performance with loud whiny fan with middling battery life and good performance. The Mx crushed the fanless Intel chips in battery life, while having performance that rivals the -H chips and barely uses the fans. That's the first gen, the Mx chips are faster than top Intel chips now, including desktop.

There are people out there that disable Turbo Mode for quieter operation and better battery life under medium load conditions. Actually with the way computers work, they sometimes fail to clock down in light load. Especially with Windows and countless processes that use 25% CPU for no reason until you manually kill it, and how many know how to do this? I find this annoying myself. I know even with Intel Macbooks, they achieved top class battery life, because the OS wasn't shoddy. Apple dropped Intel because of inefficiency right? And MS somehow believes that their closest partner is the issue? No, if you can live with Windows ARM, you have a better alternative called Apple.

With the Mx chips they don't need to bother with such things because under ST/Low Thread count load it runs cool and quiet.

 

[jdubs03]

Small bump but hey it’s something.

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-core-ultra-290k-plus-spotted-on-geekbench

 

[tajoh111]

Comparison video for new amd vs snapdragon vs intel vs apple.

AMD is definitely the worst in this comparison. While Apple is on top. Snapdragon however shows the biggest improvement with Intel being the second worst.

 

[Hulk]

Comparison video for new amd vs snapdragon vs intel vs apple.

AMD is definitely the worst in this comparison. While Apple is on top. Snapdragon however shows the biggest improvement with Intel being the second worst.

Apple is on top except when you have to run Windows, then it is last. Snapdragon can't really run Windows either.

So it's back to AMD and Intel if you want to be on Windows.

 

[OneEng2]

And why do you think Intel is so focused on battery life now and was ignoring it before lunar lake?

I don't! Lunar Lake was a very good processor for its market IMO.

The claim “x86 battery life king” is evident of it. If Panther lake was better using the Wh battery size than ANY ARM laptop Intel would gladly say so. So it’s good to have non-x86 competition, cause AMD is having a year off.

Software compatibility trumps EVEN battery life!

I loved the fanless nature of my Yoga. It's not the fastest, but it'll never get clogged with dust, the battery is kept cooler and degrades less due to lower power consumption.

I bought my wife the OLED version with the AMD processor for $550 for Christmas. It has been amazing.... And the screen is something to behold 😊.