Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



LNL-MX.png
 

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Igor sent me a review of the 285K that seems quite favorable to Intel. Some of the stats made me go "hmmmm?"

Accord to this review the 285K is much easier to cool than the 9950X.


Also showing idle system power for Intel as half that of AMD. Total load system power is much lower as well?

Not what I had previously thought?

 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,912
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Total load system power is much lower as well?

Not what I had previously thought?


Lol, here what he says, that the 9950X power increased unexpectedly without even touching something since his first review, just in time apparently.

At stock the 9950X is limited to 200W.
 

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DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
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You will have a hard time degrading it at 5 GHz. These chips are very easy to cool, so beside the lower voltage you get a huge benefit of low temps.
I thought it was the ring that degraded because it was too high on Raptorlake?
Let's hope that isn't the case. Doesn't seem like Alder Lake had that problem.
Alderlake had the ring clock much lower than Raptorlake. There's a 900MHz difference. I think it's 3.6GHz vs 4.5GHz. Arrowlake is 3.8GHz. Don't think it's a coincidence. Haswell with the 4790K was when they really started ramping the clocks again. Haswell was also the chip that made ring asynchronous with the clocks. Sandy Bridge's CPU clocks were identical to ring.

IO is generally harder to clock higher so that's why I keep saying back off from the ridiculous clocks.

I do believe Intel's claims that they messed up on the optimization part with Arrowlake though. Probably can get ~5% in gaming and reduce variations run-to-run without needing to clock any parts higher.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
23,051
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What's the point of running a 14700k @ 5 GHz max frequency versus just running a 12900k/s? Would there be any performance advantage at that point? You'd get a few more ecores, but that's about it . . .
 
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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,205
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What's the point of running a 14700k @ 5 GHz max frequency versus just running a 12900k/s? Would there be any performance advantage at that point? You'd get a few more ecores, but that's about it . . .
I was thinking about that today. 200W on my 14900K. 8+16 CB R23 = 35000, 8+12=31000

Handbrake test on this forum time goes down by 10 seconds when you add in the additional 4 cores for the same total power.

So yes, for applications that will use the additional threads the E's, even an additional cluster make a significant difference.
 
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poke01

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2022
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I was thinking about that today. 200W on my 14900K. 8+16 CB R23 = 35000, 8+12=31000

Handbrake test on this forum time goes down by 10 seconds when you add in the additional 4 cores for the same total power.

So yes, for applications that will use the additional threads the E's, even an additional cluster make a significant difference.
Some 12900K dies can make use of AVX-512 when e-cores are disabled, you are not getting this done are you :p
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Some 12900K dies can make use of AVX-512 when e-cores are disabled, you are not getting this done are you :p
I had a 12700K a few years ago and was able to enable AVX-512 and run the Handbrake test with it enabled in the app as well. The improvement in performance wias negligible.
 
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511

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Jul 12, 2024
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I had a 12700K a few years ago and was able to enable AVX-512 and run the Handbrake test with it enabled in the app as well. The improvement in performance with negligible.
Black friday is soon yo be upon us
 

Kocicak

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2019
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What's the point of running a 14700k @ 5 GHz max frequency versus just running a 12900k/s? Would there be any performance advantage at that point? You'd get a few more ecores, but that's about it . . .
Raptor lake had inter-core latencies improved compared to Alder lake.
 

OneEng2

Senior member
Sep 19, 2022
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Foolish advice IMO.

If Hulk is a gamer, the answer is clear. The 9800 X3D shortly after the release of the higher clocked models will be the best gaming processor for the money on the planet for quite some time I would expect.

There is even the opportunity for a future Zen 6 upgrade in a couple of years.

How is spending more money on an obsolete platform with inferior performance a good investment?
 

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
4,680
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He can always opt for a free replacement instead. Keep up!
If you knew a refund was an option then why complain about spending money?
The only sunk cost is the board. Meanwhile the advice here is to take another replacement or buy a 14700K and underclock it to 5GHz. Huh, okay, some people really like being abused.
 

511

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2024
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The best bet is 14700K on Black friday safer than 14900K and he saves money for future upgrade just buy Zen6 when it comes out
 
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