Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7 360	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	4.8 GHz	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB	6 MB	12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 - 35 W	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5x-7467	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB	48 GB	32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth		83 GB/s	60 GB/s	136 GB/s		120 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	2.6 GHz	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	17 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Hitman928]

No, it’s not. The closest competition is Core 7 165H or 185H.

Core 7 155H - 4.8ghz, 28W
Core 7 165H - 5.0ghz, 28-45W?
Core 7 185H - 5.1ghz, 45W
Ryzen 7840HS - 5.1ghz, 35-54W

So what would 155H's competitor be? 155H should have the same cTDP as 165h. AMD doesn't have as many SKUs so the next comparison would be the 6-core 7640HS which is a "5" tier competitor, not a "7" tier competitor.

Edit: The 185H is a Core 9 tier product, not Core 7. AMD's competitor there is the 7940HS.

 

[H433x0n]

So what would 155H's competitor be? 155H should have the same cTDP as 165h. AMD doesn't have as many SKUs so the next comparison would be the 6-core 7640HS which is a "5" tier competitor, not a "7" tier competitor.

Edit: The 185H is a Core 9 tier product, not Core 7. AMD's competitor there is the 7940HS.

Don’t know, there doesn’t seem to be a direct competitor to 155H.

If I had to guess it’d be 165H v 7840HS and 185H v 7940HS.

 

[PJVol]

Attention to the timespy scores, roughly 4000 points which is much higher versus the chinese leak from yesterday (3339 overall/3077 GPU).

What is the source of this 4000 time spy points?

 

[Hitman928]

Don’t know, there doesn’t seem to be a direct competitor to 155H.

If I had to guess it’d be 165H v 7840HS and 185H v 7940HS.

Which is why I said the 7840hs is AMD’s closest competitor. . .

 

[H433x0n]

Which is why I said the 7840hs is AMD’s closest competitor. . .

You’re free to compare it to a lower binned 28W part but it’s somewhat misleading. Generally speaking when comparing Phoenix to Raptor Lake it’s usually 7840HS vs 13700H, not the 1360p or 1370p. Ideally there’d be a 7740U to compare it to but unfortunately that’s not the case.

Edit: Looks like there’s a 7840U that should be pretty close.

 

[mikk]

What is the source of this 4000 time spy points?

Lenovo posted a video. I believe APO was enabled in driver 4730 for MTL.

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[igor_kavinski]

SAGV Points - 006 - ID:743844 | 13th Generation Intel® Core™ and Intel® Core™ 14th Generation Processors

According to that table, LPDDR5-6400 runs in Gear 4 mode so safe to assume that 7467 will also be in G4 mode with not that great latency. Good for graphics but at the expense of latency sensitive workloads.

 

[Tup3x]

You’re free to compare it to a lower binned 28W part but it’s somewhat misleading. Generally speaking when comparing Phoenix to Raptor Lake it’s usually 7840HS vs 13700H, not the 1360p or 1370p. Ideally there’d be a 7740U to compare it to but unfortunately that’s not the case.

Edit: Looks like there’s a 7840U that should be pretty close.

28W Core 7 should indeed be compared against 7840U.

 

[PJVol]

Lenovo posted a video. I believe APO was enabled in driver 4730 for MTL.

I watched the video twice but still didn't see any results. Can you provide the timestamp where the TS score is shown?

 

[Hitman928]

You’re free to compare it to a lower binned 28W part but it’s somewhat misleading. Generally speaking when comparing Phoenix to Raptor Lake it’s usually 7840HS vs 13700H, not the 1360p or 1370p. Ideally there’d be a 7740U to compare it to but unfortunately that’s not the case.

Edit: Looks like there’s a 7840U that should be pretty close.

I agree that the 165h would probably be a better comparison point, but that’s not what the leakers had access to. We only have 155h scores so then you find the closest AMD chip you can. Once we have the official release, we can make better comparisons but we’re not there yet.

 

[mikk]

I watched the video twice but still didn't see any results. Can you provide the timestamp where the TS score is shown?

It's all here above Timespy-Gfx: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ussion-threads.2606448/page-162#post-41120697

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Only 3 days are left. I think we will endure It, right guys?

Some new leaks.

Videocardz

 

[FlameTail]

So what price-class of devices will Lunar Lake feature in?

Sub-$1000 possible?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

So what price-class of devices will Lunar Lake feature in?

Sub-$1000 possible?

MTL is not released yet, and you are already thinking about Lunar Lake? 😀

 

[cebri1]

Only 3 days are left. I think we will endure It, right guys?

Some new leaks.

Videocardz

If the memory is operating at those latencies with the current software/drivers I would not take very seriously any pre-release leaked benchmark.

 

[FlameTail]

MTL is not released yet, and you are already thinking about Lunar Lake? 😀

Yes.

Lunar Lake is leaked to have a 4+4 CPU, with a mighty iGPU, minimum 16GB of on package RAM etc...

I am struggling to understand what class of product this will be?

 

[PJVol]

It's all here above Timespy-Gfx:

There are no such data in a source video. I just wanted to know where those numbers originally came from. What's wrong with my question?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

If the memory is operating at those latencies with the current software/drivers I would not take very seriously any pre-release leaked benchmark.

I am more interested in that iGPU. 4100pts in TimeSpy is seriously a lot. Even If It was at 65W, It would be great. Even Strix Point will have a problem achieving that much with only 16CU, but of course what matters are real games.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Yes.

Lunar Lake is leaked to have a 4+4 CPU, with a mighty iGPU, minimum 16GB of on package RAM etc...

I am struggling to understand what class of product this will be?

Of course, It's for ultrabooks with very low TDP.
This can also be used in handhelds, where CPU core count is not important.

It will be an interesting product by having 8Xe cores based on low power Battlemage. Frequency looks like 1.2GHz for 12W and 1.85GHz for 30W, not bad.
BTW, there is also a 32GB version on package RAM.

 

[Philste]

There are no such data in a source video. I just wanted to know where those numbers originally came from. What's wrong with my question?

That's exactly what I asked myself too. The actual data is now only in the Videocardz Article. I commented below the Article, but WhyCry doesn't seem to know what I mean. But I doubt he faked it. Article on Videocardz is dated before the Video of Lenovo, so probably they removed it and reuploaded it without the Data because of NDA breach.

 

[mikk]

That's exactly what I asked myself too. The actual data is now only in the Videocardz Article. I commented below the Article, but WhyCry doesn't seem to know what I mean. But I doubt he faked it. Article on Videocardz is dated before the Video of Lenovo, so probably they removed it and reuploaded it without the Data because of NDA breach.

It's not from videocardz, the chinese source posted it with these scores: https://www.ithome.com/0/738/050.htm

 

[PJVol]

It's not from videocardz, the chinese source posted it with these scores:

There are no scores either, or am I blind? Sorry )

 

[cebri1]

There are no scores either, or am I blind? Sorry )

Hard to see but they are there:

I am more interested in that iGPU. 4100pts in TimeSpy is seriously a lot. Even If It was at 65W, It would be great. Even Strix Point will have a problem achieving that much with only 16CU, but of course what matters are real games.

It was expected to be close to a 1060 in bechmarks, I don't expect to be more than 10% faster in games than the 780M but we'll have to wait at least a week until reviewers get their hand on them.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

It was expected to be close to a 1060 in bechmarks, I don't expect to be more than 10% faster in games than the 780M but we'll have to wait at least a week until reviewers get their hand on them.

If that 4100 pts is true, then It will be faster than just 10%, but there could be games where It will be only a bit faster or even on par with 780M.

 

[PJVol]

Hard to see but they are there:

We're talking about chinese source, not videocardz.