Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

14900KF is 15% faster than 7950X is ST & 20% faster in MT.

And there's no competition in sight for 6 month at least!

As for MTL, just 1 more day to go... 🤞

What?
Are you seriously expecting +15% ST and +20% MT performance from Raptor refresh using the same process?

edit:
@ondma compared to 7950X. I didn't say It was against Raptor.

 

[ondma]

What?
Are you seriously expecting +15% ST and +20% MT performance from Raptor refresh using the same process?

That is not at all what he said.

 

[FangBLade]

What?
Are you seriously expecting +15% ST and +20% MT performance from Raptor refresh using the same process?

edit:
@ondma compared to 7950X. I didn't say It was against Raptor.

Raw power means nothing, Zen 4-3d outperforms Intel in games while consuming significantly less energy. That's a real victory. However, claiming victory with just a 5-10% lead while consuming over 100 watts more isn't a victory at all. On top of that, you get an inferior platform with no upgrade options. You'll pay a hefty price for the 14900 version, and if you want to upgrade, you have to buy everything anew. That's not a victory; the performance-to-power consumption ratio determines the winner.

 

[RTX2080]

14900KF is 15% faster than 7950X is ST & 20% faster in MT.

And there's no competition in sight for 6 month at least!

As for MTL, just 1 more day to go... 🤞

I won't argue about the % of RPL-R lead. But, considering RPL-R is next month......4-5 months maybe.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Raw power means nothing, Zen 4-3d outperforms Intel in games while consuming significantly less energy. That's a real victory. However, claiming victory with just a 5-10% lead while consuming over 100 watts more isn't a victory at all. On top of that, you get an inferior platform with no upgrade options. You'll pay a hefty price for the 14900 version, and if you want to upgrade, you have to buy everything anew. That's not a victory; the performance-to-power consumption ratio determines the winner.

Shouldn't you have replied to @SiliconFly instead?

 

[FangBLade]

Shouldn't you have replied to @SiliconFly instead?

I put him on ignore, we won't revisit that topic and go off-topic again.

 

[Mopetar]

We're supposedly about a month from launch, so it won't be too long before we know for sure.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I put him on ignore, we won't revisit that topic and go off-topic again.

I don't care about that. My question was why you quoted me, but It was answered.

Raptor refresh is not interesting at all. MTL is what I am interested in.

 

[SiliconFly]

Raptor refresh is not interesting at all. MTL is what I am interested in.

Me too. I'm more interested in MTL. A monolithic RPL-R (on an outdated node) shouldn't even exist in this day & age.

But RPL-R taking the performance crown and beating the competition by a significant margin is worth a mention.

(Source: here. Related articles: here & here).

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

But RPL-R taking the performance crown and beating the competition by a significant margin is worth a mention.

(Source: here. Related articles: here & here).

Yeah, yeah. I will wait for official tests to see reality, I am really not interested in Geekbench.

BTW, why you posted 3 different links mentioning the same ST and MT score is something I really can't understand.

Ok, at least wccftech also mentioned Geekbench 5 not just 6, but then It was enough to just post that link.

 

[SiliconFly]

BTW, why you posted 3 different links mentioning the same ST and MT score is something I really can't understand.

Just for better clarity.

 

[Kepler_L2]

14900K is just a rebranded 13900KS, it won't change anything in the performance stack.

 

[H433x0n]

14900K is just a rebranded 13900KS, it won't change anything in the performance stack.

It's a rebranded 13900K with process node tweaks to allow +200mhz clocks at iso power. It's a refresh so I don't think people are expecting much.

It will change the performance stack, just not for that long. Across the board 14600K, 14700K and 14900K will get a ~5% ST performance bump. This puts the 14900K ST performance ~15% higher than 7950X. That's not a negligible difference.

 

[gdansk]

If the buyers needs 10% faster opening of bloated Electron applications (which would be nice) and also doesn't mind 200W+ power draw when they do happen to run the wrong games or application they could have already bought a 13900K.
On the high end it's simply a 200MHz boost for people who somehow didn't think the 13900K was good enough at any point in the past year.

 

[ondma]

If the buyers needs 10% faster opening of bloated Electron applications (which would be nice) and also doesn't mind 200W+ power draw when they do happen to run the wrong games or application they could have already bought a 13900K.
On the high end it's simply a 200MHz boost for people who somehow didn't think the 13900K was good enough at any point in the past year.

Well, if one is building a new platform with Intel, they might as well get RPL-R, for a bit more performance at the same power. I dont think anyone is claiming it is a worthwhile upgrade from RPL.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

In CB R23 ST, It really could be 20% faster.
Not bad, but I am really not that keen on such high power draw, that's why I am more interested in MTL.

Well, if one is building a new platform with Intel, they might as well get RPL-R, for a bit more performance at the same power. I dont think anyone is claiming it is a worthwhile upgrade from RPL.

If someone is building a new platform, then this refresh is not a very good choice in my opinion.
1.) It doesn't look like It's upgradable to next gen.
2.) Very high power consumption
3.) Zen5 looks not to be too far away, I would at least wait to see how good It is.

 

[gdansk]

Well, if one is building a new platform with Intel, they might as well get RPL-R, for a bit more performance at the same power. I dont think anyone is claiming it is a worthwhile upgrade from RPL.

My line of thought is simply that if the 13900K wasn't good enough for you then the 14900K isn't cause to run to Microcenter.
For people building in the next few months it depends on what price cuts retailers manage for 13th gen because 200MHz isn't worth much.

There may be more interesting changes lower down in the stack.

 

[Abwx]

In CB R23 ST, It really could be 20% faster.

You know someone who makes renderings in ST...?..

And that s really the most favourable case for intel, that is, CB ST rendering, wich doesnt exist in real life...

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

You know someone who makes renderings in ST...?..

And that s really the most favourable case for intel, that is, CB ST rendering, wich doesnt exist in real life...

If AMD won by 20% in CB ST you would be the first to shout out how great AMD is.

 

[SiliconFly]

If AMD won by 20% in CB ST you would be the first to shout out how great AMD is.

Thats so true.

AMD has a nice following. Intel not so much.

Intel being in gutter for so long has tarnished its own image. Maybe MTL can change that perspective a bit.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

AMD has a nice following. Intel not so much. Maybe MTL can change that perspective.

MTL will show us some improvements, not sure how big.
Maybe the biggest problem I have with Intel CPUs is not the power consumption but big-little approach.
AMD's approach is much more palatable to me.

 

[H433x0n]

If the buyers needs 10% faster opening of bloated Electron applications (which would be nice) and also doesn't mind 200W+ power draw when they do happen to run the wrong games or application they could have already bought a 13900K.
On the high end it's simply a 200MHz boost for people who somehow didn't think the 13900K was good enough at any point in the past year.

It’s not just the 14900K. It’s the entire lineup getting that 200mhz boost.

So you’ve got to factor in:

14600K vs 7600X/7700X
14700K vs 7900X
14900K vs 7950X

It’s a none negligible performance difference in all cases. The i9 will have +15% ST lead and a MT advantage.

Zen 4 efficiency advantage gets reduced since all of these gain +200mhz base clocks at 125W.

 

[SiliconFly]

MTL will show us some improvements, not sure how big.
Maybe the biggest problem I have with Intel CPUs is not the power consumption but big-little approach.
AMD's approach is much more palatable to me.

I'm sure the big.little is just a stop gap measure until their new core architecture is up and running properly.

But then again, if they make huge advancements in the future with the little cores, then it's a different story altogether. Who knows!

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

It’s a none negligible performance difference in all cases. The i9 will have +15% ST advantage and a MT advantage.

That will be true in some cases, but there won't be +15% ST and MT advantage on average.

Zen 4 efficiency advantage gets reduced since all of these gain +200mhz base clocks at 125W.

That +200mhz at ISO power is not much and won't change anything.

Even in CB R23 MT, which is one of the best cases AMD would win and by a significant margin.
Ok, In the case of 7700X vs 14600K the difference wouldn't be big, but 7700X is not particularly efficient thanks to high clocks and only 8 cores.
13400K is also pretty efficient but at the cost of performance.

Spoiler: CB R23 nT efficiency

If you want it for games, then Raptor is also not doing good. The models with 3D cache are crushing everything.

Spoiler: TPU gaming efficiency average

 

[Abwx]

If AMD won by 20% in CB ST you would be the first to shout out how great AMD is.

Good exemple of bad faith, i said in other words that for CB only the MT score matters, but if you want to forge some falsehood about me that render you happy why not, when arguments are worthless only thing left is bs like your post....