Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

Intel Raptor Lake UIntel Wildcat Lake 15W?Intel Lunar LakeIntel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch DateQ1-2024Q2-2026Q3-2024Q1-2026
ModelIntel 150UIntel Core 7Core Ultra 7 268VCore Ultra 7 365
Dies2223
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU2 P-core + 8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads12688
Max Clock5.4 GHz?5 GHz4.8 GHz
L3 Cache12 MB12 MB12 MB
TDP15 - 55 W15 W ?17 - 37 W25 - 55 W
Memory128-bit LPDDR5-520064-bit LPDDR5128-bit LPDDR5x-8533128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size96 GB32 GB128 GB
Bandwidth136 GB/s
GPUIntel GraphicsIntel GraphicsArc 140VIntel Graphics
RTNoNoYESYES
EU / Xe96 EU2 Xe8 Xe4 Xe
Max Clock1.3 GHz?2 GHz2.5 GHz
NPUGNA 3.018 TOPS48 TOPS49 TOPS






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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naukkis

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DavidC1 said:
No one said Intel will be a leader but it'll be much closer this time, within 10%. That's the whole point. SPR is their weakest point in servers.
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Intel is all in, two big dies glued together with interposer - thats pretty much all they could do without minding expenses and they are still losing to Amd cheap small chiplet products. Intel is so deep in shit they should sell whole server division to save rest of them.
 
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511

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Jul 12, 2024
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DokiDoki said:
What threat? Intel dictates the path that x86 vector-ISA will follow.
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This AMDs dominance is due to SW stack matured by Intel and the community if MI300 could run cuda nvidia wouldn't have a moat as Big
 
D

DokiDoki

Member
Aug 21, 2024
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511 said:
This AMDs dominance is due to SW stack matured by Intel and the community if MI300 could run cuda nvidia wouldn't have a moat as Big
Click to expand...
There's more to it than simply being able to 'run' CUDA. NVIDIA literally set the larger trends that were ultimately adopted in GPGPU computing.

Their current success is a continuation of that.
Why else would OpenCL be nonexistent today?

An analogy with Raytracing in video games: RT games are dime a dozen these days. They are all based on DX12. Because it's being pushed by Microsoft.

There is only one RT game that isn't DX12, and that is Doom Eternal.
 
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jdubs03

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Oct 1, 2013
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On that Royal thread I mentioned the other day. Looks like someone from that team posted in there. First of all what a name lmao. And two in my read they seem to poo poo it a bit (the conversation has more above and below).
1725708431698.jpeg
 
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igor_kavinski

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Jul 27, 2020
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DokiDoki said:
What threat? Intel dictates the path that x86 vector-ISA will follow.
Click to expand...
Haven't seen the AVX-512 benchmarks for Zen 5, have you? Or the fact that Zen 5 is doing AVX-512 workloads better than Intel without consuming extra power or downclocking like crazy?

Yes, Intel will probably shift the goal with AVX10 but other than introducing few new instructions, they can't do anything to stop legacy AVX-512 workloads from running on Ryzens or Turin Epycs with better thermals and power usage, making them super attractive to anyone depending on these workloads.
 
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DokiDoki

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Aug 21, 2024
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igor_kavinski said:
Haven't seen the AVX-512 benchmarks for Zen 5, have you? Or the fact that Zen 5 is doing AVX-512 workloads better than Intel without consuming extra power or downclocking like crazy?

Yes, Intel will probably shift the goal with AVX10 but other than introducing few new instructions, they can't do anything to stop legacy AVX-512 workloads from running on Ryzens or Turin Epycs with better thermals and power usage, making them super attractive to anyone depending on these workloads.
Click to expand...
You're talking as if Xeons cannot run AVX512. And downclocking with AVX-512 has been solved on Intel since Ice Lake.
 
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511

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2024
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igor_kavinski said:
Haven't seen the AVX-512 benchmarks for Zen 5, have you? Or the fact that Zen 5 is doing AVX-512 workloads better than Intel without consuming extra power or downclocking like crazy?

Yes, Intel will probably shift the goal with AVX10 but other than introducing few new instructions, they can't do anything to stop legacy AVX-512 workloads from running on Ryzens or Turin Epycs with better thermals and power usage, making them super attractive to anyone depending on these workloads.
Click to expand...
The same AVX that AMD Copied they may have better hardware i can bet half of AVX-512 software is intel developed software 🤣 your hardware is sand if it doesn't get supported intel will just use underhanded technique to block them from using intel software they have done it in the past
 
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igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
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511 said:
your hardware is sand if it doesn't get supported intel will just use underhanded technique to block them from using intel software they have done it in the past
Click to expand...
Don't know a single case of that happening so far. Do enlighten me if there is some AVX-512 software using the same instructions available on AMD hardware but still won't run.
 
I

igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
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DokiDoki said:
?

Why is the most powerful automobile ICE made by Bugatti when the first to put the ICE in a car was Diamler?
Click to expand...
And we can do this all day long then. Point is, Intel lagged behind. They ARE in trouble. Now they don't have enough resources to do both server and client. So what are they gonna choose?
 
5

511

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Jul 12, 2024
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igor_kavinski said:
Don't know a single case of that happening so far. Do enlighten me if there is some AVX-512 software using the same instructions available on AMD hardware but still won't run.
Click to expand...
I don't know either 🤣 i will wait for them to pull it you can't change the underhanded technique intel nvidia had used over the years
 
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jdubs03

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2013
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igor_kavinski said:
And we can do this all day long then. Point is, Intel lagged behind. They ARE in trouble. Now they don't have enough resources to do both server and client. So what are they gonna choose?
Click to expand...
Ehh tbh I think their lineup for next year with Panther Lake and Clearwater Forest/Diamond Rapids are pretty solid. Much much more compelling on the server side than anything on offer now (including 6th gen Xeon).
 
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igor_kavinski

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Jul 27, 2020
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511 said:
AMD has survived worst tbh
Click to expand...
AMD wasn't full of absolute morons working against each other.

Intel's teams and management are used to having too much resources at their disposal. AMD has ALWAYS been lean. They don't know what excess is.

Going from having anything available to limited resources doesn't immediately lead to better execution. It will actually cause a lot of teething pains as they discover how to do things with limited budgets and those unable to thrive in such an environment will quit and leave gaping holes in skills and expertise.

Their stupid Meteor Lake hot lots fiasco is a direct result of them thinking they can do anything with their resources, in other words, waste investor money!
 
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jdubs03

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igor_kavinski said:
AMD wasn't full of absolute morons working against each other.

Intel's teams and management are used to having too much resources at their disposal. AMD has ALWAYS been lean. They don't know what excess is.

Going from having anything available to limited resources doesn't immediately lead to better execution. It will actually cause a lot of teething pains as they discover how to do things with limited budgets and those unable to thrive in such an environment will quit and leave gaping holes in skills and expertise.
Click to expand...
Such a shame because on the engineering side they’re quite competent.
 
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