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Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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T

Tigerick

Senior member
Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

Intel Raptor Lake UIntel Wildcat Lake 15WIntel Lunar LakeIntel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch DateQ1-2024Q2-2026Q3-2024Q1-2026
ModelIntel 150UIntel Core 7 360Core Ultra 7 268VCore Ultra 7 365
Dies2223
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU2 P-core + 8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads12688
Max Clock5.4 GHz4.8 GHz5 GHz4.8 GHz
L3 Cache12 MB6 MB12 MB12 MB
TDP15 - 55 W15 - 35 W17 - 37 W25 - 55 W
Memory128-bit LPDDR5-520064-bit LPDDR5x-7467128-bit LPDDR5x-8533128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size96 GB48 GB32 GB128 GB
Bandwidth83 GB/s60 GB/s136 GB/s120 GB/s
GPUIntel GraphicsIntel GraphicsArc 140VIntel Graphics
RTNoNoYESYES
EU / Xe96 EU2 Xe8 Xe4 Xe
Max Clock1.3 GHz2.6 GHz2 GHz2.5 GHz
NPUGNA 3.017 TOPS48 TOPS49 TOPS






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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Last edited:
A/// said:
You're placing too much emphasis on rumors being true and then parlaying that speculation into real timelines.
Click to expand...

It definitely seems like there is nothing between Raptor Lake Refresh and Arrow Lake on desktop. And Arrow Lake looks like 2025. It wouldn't be the end of the world if RLR ends up being Q4 2023 and Arrow Lake desktop in Q2 2025.
 
endoflife.date

Intel Processors

Check end-of-life, release policy and support schedule for Intel Processors.
endoflife.date endoflife.date

Seems like Intel prefers to release something for the holiday buying season. So RPL-R should be released in the SEP-NOV timeframe this year and next year, they gotta put out SOMETHING in the same timeframe or there will be lost sales and someone's head will need to be served up on a platter to appease the investors.
 
jpiniero said:
It definitely seems like there is nothing between Raptor Lake Refresh and Arrow Lake on desktop. And Arrow Lake looks like 2025. It wouldn't be the end of the world if RLR ends up being Q4 2023 and Arrow Lake desktop in Q2 2025.
Click to expand...


Arrow Lake-S looks like 2024 and Arrow Lake-P looks like 2025. We have seen this not long time ago when ADL-S launched earlier than ADL-P. This time however desktop and notebook might use a different process node.
 
mikk said:
Arrow Lake-S looks like 2024 and Arrow Lake-P looks like 2025. We have seen this not long time ago when ADL-S launched earlier than ADL-P. This time however desktop and notebook might use a different process node.
Click to expand...

Well if the desktop product after Arrow Lake isn't coming until 2026, it only sort of makes sense that Arrow Lake on desktop is in 2025. But 2024 for K only could happen I guess.

The question I guess would be if they are fabbing the CPU tile at TSMC, presumably they would want to use N3E. I'm not sure the timing would work out for any time sooner than 2025.
 
Exist50 said:
I'm surprised no one has remarked on the chiplet implementation quite different from MTL/ARL.
Click to expand...
Intel using an AMD IGP ??? Does not seem real.

Actually that says ATI, not even AMD. Sounds like its a photoshop'ed image.

The exact image is here: from Dec 2001

www.techpowerup.com

ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 Specs

ATI M7, 280 MHz, 2 Pixel Shaders, 0 Vertex Shaders, 2 TMUs, 1 ROPs, 32 MB DDR, 200 MHz, 64 bit
www.techpowerup.com
 
jpiniero said:
Well if the desktop product after Arrow Lake isn't coming until 2026, it only sort of makes sense that Arrow Lake on desktop is in 2025. But 2024 for K only could happen I guess.

The question I guess would be if they are fabbing the CPU tile at TSMC, presumably they would want to use N3E. I'm not sure the timing would work out for any time sooner than 2025.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any trustable roadmap till 2026 beside a selfmade one we cannot verify. I think Intels usual roadmap only goes 5 quarters in advance. Keep in mind there is no rule that Intel launches a new generation every 12 months which is why we get refresh releases with little or no changes occasionally. With your logic Intel shouldn't have released Raptor Lake in 2022 given that ARL-S might come ~2 years after this (you are claiming 2.5-3 years).
 
Markfw said:
Intel using an AMD IGP ??? Does not seem real.

Actually that says ATI, not even AMD. Sounds like its a photoshop'ed image.

The exact image is here: from Dec 2001

www.techpowerup.com

ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 Specs

ATI M7, 280 MHz, 2 Pixel Shaders, 0 Vertex Shaders, 2 TMUs, 1 ROPs, 32 MB DDR, 200 MHz, 64 bit
www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...
That seems to just be the leaker jokingly referencing a similar-looking arrangement. I mean the pic on the left.
 
jpiniero said:
It definitely seems like there is nothing between Raptor Lake Refresh and Arrow Lake on desktop. And Arrow Lake looks like 2025. It wouldn't be the end of the world if RLR ends up being Q4 2023 and Arrow Lake desktop in Q2 2025.
Click to expand...
Intel is not going to let AMD take control for an entire year plus jp. You know that, I know that. amd is still in shark mode.
 
Exist50 said:
And if I said the top left doesn't exist?
Click to expand...
Uh that seems pretty poorly phrased.

Because I'm pretty sure there are 3 tiles that look just like the image earlier up in the chain. It's not the existence of the left tile that's the issue, it's the existence of an I/O tile.
 
uzzi38 said:
Uh that seems pretty poorly phrased.

Because I'm pretty sure there are 3 tiles that look just like the image earlier up in the chain. It's not the existence of the left tile that's the issue, it's the existence of an I/O tile.
Click to expand...
No, my wording was deliberate. Pretty sure there are only two top dies. Which would make the third just structural silicon, if it even exists.
 
IntelUser2000 said:
Lunar Lake uses the same core uarch as Arrowlake. I bet you it's like Core M saying it's "architected for low power" but it came out to be lot less significant than they said it would.

They made you get pretty excited for not much: https://www.anandtech.com/show/8355/intel-broadwell-architecture-preview/4

Lunar Lake = Arrowlake+ capped at low power?
Click to expand...
Despite using the same CPU cores, Lunar Lake is an entirely different beast from Arrow Lake. It's probably the Intel product I'm most excited/curious about.
 
Exist50 said:
Despite using the same CPU cores, Lunar Lake is an entirely different beast from Arrow Lake. It's probably the Intel product I'm most excited/curious about.
Click to expand...

I believe you without much question in most things but both Lunar Lake and Royal core claims I take it with healthy dose of skepticism.

Actually I am hopeful for LNL, and my attitude towards Royal is "show me".

Why? First because I've been burnt enough by those claims in the past, and revolutionary architectures are revolutionary in that it's not practical to be used. The architecture has to be similar enough to not be alienated by existing code and balanced enough that weaknesses don't drag down the rest.
 
IntelUser2000 said:
I believe you without much question in most things but both Lunar Lake and Royal core claims I take it with healthy dose of skepticism.

Actually I am hopeful for LNL, and my attitude towards Royal is "show me".

Why? First because I've been burnt enough by those claims in the past, and revolutionary architectures are revolutionary in that it's not practical to be used. The architecture has to be similar enough to not be alienated by existing code and balanced enough that weaknesses don't drag down the rest.
Click to expand...
I get it. Certainly can't blame you for skepticism. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and all that. Just know that I am not misleading you, and I do not espouse these positions without good reason.

In the meantime, sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Time will reveal all.
 
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