Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[gdansk]

The best bet is 14700K on Black friday safer than 14900K and he saves money for future upgrade

A better bet is a $125 12700K from Best Buy (but they're all sold out). No known issues - it is already pre-tuned to safe voltages.

Or perhaps to stop sinking money in the platform of endless returns.

 

[511]

A better bet is a $125 12700K from Best Buy (but they're all sold out). No known issues - it is already pre-tuned to safe voltages.

Or perhaps to stop sinking money in the platform of endless returns.

What if we get $200 13700K 🙂 on black friday if he has the money go AMD best choice my best advice can be wait for black friday buy 13700K/14700K cheap

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[511]

Both, 14700K & 9800X3D are a step down in general application performance. He's a power user who's very much capable of tweaking CPU clocks, memory clocks, etc. Combined with the Intel bios updates & clock limits, a new & free replacement 14900K should perform well for a long time. That too with better application performance than 14700K & 9800X3D without spending any money. Why regress? Not necessary IMHO.

9800X3D is straight downgrade for productivity compared to either of those at least 14700K is not that bad in productivity

 

[maddie]

Rubbish. A new 14900K with all the fixes shouldn't pose any problems at all. What else do you suggest, some silly amd processor?

Try the old adage, "when in a hole, stop digging".

What is the supposed Einstein quote? The definition of madness is repeating the same thing and expecting a different result. Is that it?

Your posts though, are quite funny, even if maybe not intended. Userbenchmark level stuff to be honest. A blast.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[maddie]

9800X3D is straight downgrade for productivity compared to either of those at least 14700K is not that bad in productivity

True, but in January we should have an leading candidate appearing for both worlds.

 

[maddie]

And yours is even more hilarious. Using a new 14900K with new Intel bios updates & with a ring clock limit isn't the same as before! And recommending a slower amd 9800X3D,, thats digging a hole. Truly Userbenchmark level!

Now this is a strawman level post. Where did I recommend the 9800X3D? Please refer to that post.

I get your "enthusiasm", but this is a whole new level. Not a higher one, in case its misunderstood.

 

[Hulk]

I really don't want my dilemna to create any hostile or vitriolic discussion. I appreciate the opinion of every person who has commented. Each one has merit. Let's face it, everybody here is quite intelligent. Opinionated too, which is why we butt heads at times. As long as it remains friendly and productive it's a good thing. Like a good chess match.

The financially smart thing to do would probably be to take my $570 refund and buy an inexpensive Raptor CPU that can see me through until I really have to upgrade because something so much better is out there. Or take the $570 and buy a $420 14900K at MicroCenter, pocket the diffference and run it long term with a 5GHz cap. Both are good options.

As an enthusiast, and someone who has never had an AMD system, and based on the compute power of Zen 5 I am leaning toward building a 9950X based rig. Only minor concern I have is I have heard that Zen 5 can be tough to cool from a hotspot point of view, not total thermal load. I'd like to stay on air and honestly if I could get 5GHz all-core with my Assassin cooler (with good temps), I'd be quite happy. From what I've heard it seems like that is doable.

 

[Markfw]

I really don't want my dilemna to create any hostile or vitriolic discussion. I appreciate the opinion of every person who has commented. Each one has merit. Let's face it, everybody here is quite intelligent. Opinionated too, which is why we butt heads at times. As long as it remains friendly and productive it's a good thing. Like a good chess match.

The financially smart thing to do would probably be to take my $570 refund and buy an inexpensive Raptor CPU that can see me through until I really have to upgrade because something so much better is out there. Or take the $570 and buy a $420 14900K at MicroCenter, pocket the diffference and run it long term with a 5GHz cap. Both are good options.

As an enthusiast, and someone who has never had an AMD system, and based on the compute power of Zen 5 I am leaning toward building a 9950X based rig. Only minor concern I have is I have heard that Zen 5 can be tough to cool from a hotspot point of view, not total thermal load. I'd like to stay on air and honestly if I could get 5GHz all-core with my Assassin cooler (with good temps), I'd be quite happy. From what I've heard it seems like that is doable.

I have a $34 cooler, and its been up since day one and no issues. Oh, and at 100% load no less.

Edit: my cooler is an assassin dual 120 fans. sounds like you already have that. This one ?

Amazon.com

 

[Hulk]

I have a $34 cooler, and its been up since day one and no issues. Oh, and at 100% load no less.

Edit: my cooler is an assassin dual 120 fans. sounds like you already have that. This one ?

Amazon.com

Yup, the black version of that one. Thanks. I should be fine.

 

[OneEng2]

I really don't want my dilemna to create any hostile or vitriolic discussion. I appreciate the opinion of every person who has commented. Each one has merit. Let's face it, everybody here is quite intelligent. Opinionated too, which is why we butt heads at times. As long as it remains friendly and productive it's a good thing. Like a good chess match.

The financially smart thing to do would probably be to take my $570 refund and buy an inexpensive Raptor CPU that can see me through until I really have to upgrade because something so much better is out there. Or take the $570 and buy a $420 14900K at MicroCenter, pocket the diffference and run it long term with a 5GHz cap. Both are good options.

As an enthusiast, and someone who has never had an AMD system, and based on the compute power of Zen 5 I am leaning toward building a 9950X based rig. Only minor concern I have is I have heard that Zen 5 can be tough to cool from a hotspot point of view, not total thermal load. I'd like to stay on air and honestly if I could get 5GHz all-core with my Assassin cooler (with good temps), I'd be quite happy. From what I've heard it seems like that is doable.

Agree.

Seems like for productuctivity alone, the new Intel Core Ultra 285K is a solid processor, but still behind the 9950x (according to Tom's) by a bit overall.

For gaming, the 9800X3D is simply unstoppable with no competition (other than more X3D chips to be released soon) on the horizon.

For saving the most money, I totally agree that just replacing your existing processor with another one similar to it and keeping it clocked down is the most cost effective solution (but least gratifying for an enthusiast ).

If you can wait a bit, it is possible that the ultimate solution would be a 9950X3D which would (in theory) best everything at everything (for the most part).... but one has to wonder what an "end-all-be-all" processor might cost!

As for getting all cores up to 5Ghz on a 9950x, some theory I have heard is that they bin one good CCD and another less good bin one for the 2nd CCD. I don't know if it is true or not, and am not sure if there is any way to figure it out though a benchmark database.

On topic on this thread, I have heard a rumor that there are some issues with the 285K that may require a tune down? Not sure where I read it, but if someone would confirm or deny it, that would be great.

As for trusting another 14700K, after a few of them, I might give up myself.

 

[OneEng2]

The best bet is 14700K on Black friday safer than 14900K and he saves money for future upgrade just buy Zen6 when it comes out

Might be able to just drop a Zen 6 into AM5 if he had that now.

Also, no one buys a 14900K or considers a 9950x who is concerned about saving money on a computing purchase. Of course, everyone's situation is different and changes with the times as well.

 

[LightningZ71]

You could just go with the 14900t...

It's not on the list of affected processors and is quite efficient...

I kid!!!

 

[Thunder 57]

I really don't want my dilemna to create any hostile or vitriolic discussion. I appreciate the opinion of every person who has commented. Each one has merit. Let's face it, everybody here is quite intelligent. Opinionated too, which is why we butt heads at times. As long as it remains friendly and productive it's a good thing. Like a good chess match.

The financially smart thing to do would probably be to take my $570 refund and buy an inexpensive Raptor CPU that can see me through until I really have to upgrade because something so much better is out there. Or take the $570 and buy a $420 14900K at MicroCenter, pocket the diffference and run it long term with a 5GHz cap. Both are good options.

As an enthusiast, and someone who has never had an AMD system, and based on the compute power of Zen 5 I am leaning toward building a 9950X based rig. Only minor concern I have is I have heard that Zen 5 can be tough to cool from a hotspot point of view, not total thermal load. I'd like to stay on air and honestly if I could get 5GHz all-core with my Assassin cooler (with good temps), I'd be quite happy. From what I've heard it seems like that is doable.

Very respectable post. Also, you play chess? I used to be really into that when I was younger. Fun game.

 

[FlameTail]

Lunar Lake introduced several new innovations that are the pillars to it's spectacular efficiency:

• SoC architecture focused on low power, with aggressive power gating, more power rails, new display controllers and media engines, etc...

• On-package memory.

• PMICs.

• Cluster of 4 LPE cores.

• CPU, GPU and NPU in one tile.

How many of these will Panther Lake keep?

 

[vanplayer]

Lunar Lake introduced several new innovations that are the pillars to it's spectacular efficiency:

• SoC architecture focused on low power, with aggressive power gating, more power rails, new display controllers and media engines, etc...

• On-package memory.

• PMICs.

• Cluster of 4 LPE cores.

• CPU, GPU and NPU in one tile.

How many of these will Panther Lake keep?

No packaged memory anymore.

 

[511]

Lunar Lake introduced several new innovations that are the pillars to it's spectacular efficiency:

• SoC architecture focused on low power, with aggressive power gating, more power rails, new display controllers and media engines, etc...

• On-package memory.

• PMICs.

• Cluster of 4 LPE cores.

• CPU, GPU and NPU in one tile.

How many of these will Panther Lake keep?

PTL will have newer display/media engine and SLC like Lunar lake
On package memory is gone for PTL
PMICs maybe it is upto vendor cause MTL-U supports PMIC as well
It will have 4 improved LPE cores
CPU+NPU+IMC on a single tile GPU tile is different allowing you to shut it off

 

[511]

ARL-U SKU(RWC+ and CMT+)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858299099608752597

The frequency increase is more than the node (18%) gains lmao at 12/15W

 

[FlameTail]

PTL will have newer display/media engine and SLC like Lunar lake
On package memory is gone for PTL
PMICs maybe it is upto vendor cause MTL-U supports PMIC as well
It will have 4 improved LPE cores
CPU+NPU+IMC on a single tile GPU tile is different allowing you to shut it off

Why would you shut off the GPU? It's needed for rendering even the desktop UI, no?

 

[511]

Why would you shut off the GPU? It's needed for rendering even the desktop UI, no?

That is the display/media engines not the GPU cores for 3D rendering Yotube is basically media/display engines

 

[LightningZ71]

ARL-U SKU(RWC+ and CMT+)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858299099608752597

The frequency increase is more than the node (18%) gains lmao at 12/15W
View attachment 111768

That should make for some interesting benchmark comparisons...

 

[511]

That should make for some interesting benchmark comparisons...

Yes if it turns out to be 20-25% better by simply moving to Intel 3 than Intel 3 is simply a full node worth of PPW improved arch I don't know how much they can improve it 🤪

 

[DavidC1]

ARL-U SKU(RWC+ and CMT+)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858299099608752597

The frequency increase is more than the node (18%) gains lmao at 12/15W
View attachment 111768

I think in addition to the circuitry improvements, Intel 4 didn't fully live up to expectations in Meteorlake due to the delay and struggles so Intel 3 looks better.

The great increase in base clocks suggest the power profile is much better on ARL-U.