Insert_Nickname
Diamond Member
Did a quick test yesterday. No difference on the AB350M Pro4. Windows booted just fine with both rebar on and off. Least I could do.
YMMV of course.
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News Intel GPUs - we've given up on B770, where's Celestial already
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Did a quick test yesterday. No difference on the AB350M Pro4. Windows booted just fine with both rebar on and off. Least I could do.
YMMV of course.
psolord
Platinum Member
Linus might be willing to demean himself by doing Intel PR's bidding, but Igor's not mincing his words:
www.igorslab.de
"Of course, you should feel sorry for Intel, but even more for those who have spent their money on such products because the PR machinery produces full-length propaganda at its best and you as a consumer have trusted it."
The auto translator has mangled that a bit:
Mitleid ist natürlich angebracht, aber nicht Intel gegenüber, sondern meines gilt uneingeschränkt denen, die Ihr Geld für solche Produkte ausgegeben haben, weil die PR-Maschinerie abendfüllende Propaganda vom Allerfeinsten produziert und man dann als Konsument darauf vertraut hat.
So more like "Naturally pity is appropriate, but not for Intel, rather my pity is solely for those have spent their own money...".
Igor's not worried about being in Intel's bad books then!
The morning after - reflections of the Arc A380 premiere and (no) second conclusion | igor´sLAB
Disclaimer: The following article is mostly machine translated from the original German, and the translation has not been edited or checked for errors in-depth. Thank you for understanding!
www.igorslab.de
The auto translator has mangled that a bit:
Mitleid ist natürlich angebracht, aber nicht Intel gegenüber, sondern meines gilt uneingeschränkt denen, die Ihr Geld für solche Produkte ausgegeben haben, weil die PR-Maschinerie abendfüllende Propaganda vom Allerfeinsten produziert und man dann als Konsument darauf vertraut hat.
So more like "Naturally pity is appropriate, but not for Intel, rather my pity is solely for those have spent their own money...".
Igor's not worried about being in Intel's bad books then!
From the first reviews:
Intel's Arc GPU Drivers Do Not Support DX9, Confirmed
Intel's Arc GPU Drivers Do Not Support DX10, Confirmed
Intel's Arc GPU Drivers Do Support some DX11 games, Confirmed
Intel's Arc GPU Drivers Do Support some DX12 games, Confirmed
I jest, but only a bit!
coercitiv
Diamond Member
I'm sure there's plenty of other reasons to look down on Linus, this time though I think both LTT and Gamers Nexus are doing the decent thing by allowing Intel to speak through Tom Petersen. They're empowering an engineer to interface with the media. Every year we complain about the low quality of the marketing discourse from these companies, it would be a shame to discourage this one exception even if the chance of this being picked up by others is rather slim.
Remember, the alternative may be another episode on the origins of Raja's name...
IMHO the media playing good cop / bad cop with Intel would be the best outcome possible.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
Oh god, that's so me in the 2000's. I hated it so much that by the second half I was fed up enough to finally moved Windows to a VM and never used it on bare metal again since. My main Linux system on the other hand essentially is a continuous lineage since, even when changing hardware like new laptops I reuse my home folder (which under Linux includes all personal settings) and the complete list of installed packages (so smooth with an actual system level package manager, and NVMe was a real revelation there, the one time fresh install that took up to an hour before now is only a matter of minutes anymore, meanwhile I have to fight Xcode updates on my MBA M1 getting stuck in eternity, ughh...). /rant
Stuka87
Diamond Member
Linus might be willing to demean himself by doing Intel PR's bidding, but Igor's not mincing his words:
The morning after - reflections of the Arc A380 premiere and (no) second conclusion | igor´sLAB
Disclaimer: The following article is mostly machine translated from the original German, and the translation has not been edited or checked for errors in-depth. Thank you for understanding!
I for one really liked the videos that GN and LTT did. I wish other companies did similar launches. Have an engineer there to help go over the technology. And admit what its issues are. Intel didn't hide that the card won't be good for old games, or that there is a lot of work to do still.
As for Igor's article, to me it comes off as... I don't know, butt hurt?
This line especially:
I moved Win XP to a VM for that reason, but for newer stuff I just never did it.
( useless fact of the day: WinXP Pro 32 bit licensing allows for dual processors with 4 threads each, for eight total threads. )
On HyperV, I never could get GPU acceleration working in a VM.
PingSpike
Lifer
I was under the impression that there is no real difference between those two things except the form factor. I have passive m.2 -> PCIe and vice versa adapters.
But that wasn't my problem with Linus.
Having an engineer there is great, but if having that access results in a softly-softly approach then it becomes useless.
Anandtech man site articles became useless when for getting access to industry figures, they too took the softly-softly approach. I don't want PC Magazine or similar Ziff Davis magazine, I want someone who is willing to tell things as they are and isn't worried about upsetting some PR department.
I'd be careful reading anything Igor has run through the Google translator as the tone gets lost. Surely his point was "why are Intel hiding their first dGPU launch after 5 years of hype in only one market" which is something we should ask.
Insert_Nickname
Diamond Member
In practice, the only differences are that you can't see the drive in the UEFI except for in the boot menu, and perhaps the HDD led isn't working because the adaptor doesn't have the 2 point DuPont connector for it. But that is all.
Stuka87
Diamond Member
From the drives own perspective, they are the same technology internally. But from UEFI's perspective, and the windows drivers, they are different.
There was a while where you could not boot at all from PCIe drives without jumping through hoops. UEFI has gotten better in this regard.
GodisanAtheist
Diamond Member
I think reviewers like Igor find it cathartic to be able to dunk on Intel hard after years of an inverted power dynamic between press and industry that sees industry able to pick friendly media outlets and cut off others rather than seek their approval, as was the natural state of things before the sort of democratization of info we have now.
Right now, Intel needs to take a soft hand with the press in this market. They're not Nvidia (or to an extent AMD), who won't lose a single dime cutting off a media outlet for saying mean things about them. They can always go find some random tech-tuber to send the product sample to instead. This gives media more latitude to be harsh (maybe even unjustifiably harsh, although I make no judgement either way in this case).
Right now, Intel needs to take a soft hand with the press in this market. They're not Nvidia (or to an extent AMD), who won't lose a single dime cutting off a media outlet for saying mean things about them. They can always go find some random tech-tuber to send the product sample to instead. This gives media more latitude to be harsh (maybe even unjustifiably harsh, although I make no judgement either way in this case).
coercitiv
Diamond Member
Well... the softly-softly approach from LTT got us a straight answer from Intel on this exact question:
- they went with a weird China launch because of the "vulnerabilities" in the design, hoping they could control the hardware & firmware used by system integrators
- both Tom Petersen and Ryan Shrout agreed this was a mistake, and judging by their reaction I think they regret more than ignoring the western media (that "Into the unknow" on the GUNNIR packaging should give us a hint on how bad it went)
Panino Manino
Golden Member
Linus might be willing to demean himself by doing Intel PR's bidding, but Igor's not mincing his words:
"Of course, you should feel sorry for Intel, but even more for those who have spent their money on such products because the PR machinery produces full-length propaganda at its best and you as a consumer have trusted it."The morning after - reflections of the Arc A380 premiere and (no) second conclusion | igor´sLAB
Disclaimer: The following article is mostly machine translated from the original German, and the translation has not been edited or checked for errors in-depth. Thank you for understanding!
He is exaggerating
There's no "PR machinery" at work here, Intel is being very clear that these cards are NOT good. For some games for some people it may be possible to offer some good deal, and that's it. Intel is selling this as it actually is, no one is being mislead.
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Putting aside any ethical issues if any, why such a price and who buys a card for a few ordinary games. I could see a sim fanatic doing something like this, but a low spec gamer. Just accept the failure and drop the price.
I normally don't mind LTT sponsored stuff (which the Intel video was not, technically) but both that vid and the GN one rubbed me the wrong way.
It seems like they both let Intel big dog them and control the narrative. Nevermind that our GPUs are dog poo, look at this slightly different version of vsync we came up with!
Sure, our GPUs suck in the games most people play, but we will price them accordingly! How much? oh, can't say yet, but take our word for it!"
It seems like they both let Intel big dog them and control the narrative. Nevermind that our GPUs are dog poo, look at this slightly different version of vsync we came up with!
Sure, our GPUs suck in the games most people play, but we will price them accordingly! How much? oh, can't say yet, but take our word for it!"
Panino Manino
Golden Member
You know, it isn't like any of those people or channels have the duty to "protect the consumer" and "punish bad products". It's good if they show things how they are and help consumers see beyond corporate tricks to fool them into expending their money, but they're entertainers, not police.
There's nothing remarkable with this coverage, any channel would do the same if allowed the opportunity. Who wouldn't want to have personal access to new hardware and have the engineers there personally to answer their questions?
It's best for everyone. If Intel were only sending market people I would have an issue, but if it's people who actually work to realize the product, then I want to watch. Would anyone here complain if AMD did the same for Zen 4 or RDNA3? Everyone one here would be applauding. In Linus particular case I had some awkward laughs seeing how he put Intel people of all peoples to sell his store products.
Heartbreaker
Diamond Member
where are those quotes coming from? certainly not from me, I don't expect LTT to protect the consumer for sure. I do expect GN to advocate for the consumer and punish bad products and companies because it's kind of their whole thing. They waged a months long campaign against Newegg for accidentally selling returned motherboards as new. Intel is about to dump hundreds of thousands of crummy GPUs onto the market and GN invites them on to talk around it.
And you are right, their primary job is to entertain. Neither video really did. In the GN video, the dithered screen tearing thing is a good idea but it should be a side note in a review not a primary focus of a video. The frame time segment was boring to people who don't know that stuff and don't care, and didn't really contain anything new for people who do care.
The LTT video was even worse. I don't think I learned anything and 24 hours after watching it my main memory from the video is Linus trying to guess what frame rate cyberpunk was running at. Oh and his fake giddiness about the overclocking software that almost works! This coming from the same guy who recently spent several minutes (validly) nitpicking the completely functional UI of a budget Android phone.
The tongue in cheek shilling of lttstore.com by the Intel guys almost feels like Linus trying to compensate for the Intel shilling he's doing.
I watch pretty much ever LTT video and enjoy the vast majority of them. This one was bad and didn't sit right.
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
@pj- I agree with most of the comments on YT that they are being more open and honest. It's a losing battle either way. Do you shut up, be shady like most, or be honest? People will complain no matter what. I can see why companies become ruthless and stop caring about feedback. Most are tantrums and is no more than noise. Your product has issues, so do something about it. They said they will so that's that.
You are at the lowest point before you recover. If they don't give up people's opinions towards with ARC will change quickly, very quickly as they work and improve.
People rallying towards companies are because in some way they see it as a hope for the absolute disaster that's our world and the garbage dump that's nicely dressed in suits and words such as "leaders".
You are at the lowest point before you recover. If they don't give up people's opinions towards with ARC will change quickly, very quickly as they work and improve.
People rallying towards companies are because in some way they see it as a hope for the absolute disaster that's our world and the garbage dump that's nicely dressed in suits and words such as "leaders".
Aapje
Golden Member
You are making it sound like we need to act like a support group for Intel. They can hire a therapist if they need that. Consumers are deciding whether they should give their hard earned money to Intel and their product is just not very good.
People are not just complaining for no reason, like you make it out to be.
And now you are acting like a support group, with this kind of comment that always irritates the hell out of me, due to its arrogance and hollowness. Intel is not a junkie that we cheer on for going from a very shitty life to a slightly less shitty, but still extremely subpar life. They need to measure up to the best. This is not the world of participation trophies, but pro sports.
The standard is very high in this industry and reputations fall much faster than they recover. AMD is still not given credit by very many gamers & they still work hard to catch up in several ways.
Don't forget that Intel has in relatively favorable market conditions right now, with GPU prices still being inflated and the competitors being at the tail end of a generation. They may very well end up with a worse proposition even as they improve their product, with prices falling so they can't undercut the competition enough without making a huge loss and with the competitors releasing faster products, so the Intel cards compete against a lower tier of the competition.
LTT's video really disappointed me.
Especially when you compare it to:
or this 11 minute rant on why he does not want to do his job:
Both the rx6500 and rx590 blow the doors off of intel's product here in every way. The rx590 is five years old now also. But LTT is happy to smear them all over.
Then you watch LTT's video on intel's product and it is like the man is just shilling. The cognitive dissonance in comparison to other product videos is a bit much.
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igor_kavinski
Lifer
I would love to know what Intel has promised him, like perks/future first dibs on product at launch etc.
Linus is doing more harm to his own reputation by doing crap like "estimating fps" because Intel is too shy to share actual fps on his channel.
Heartbreaker
Diamond Member
This isn't a review though. It's a interview/exploration with people from Intel.
Childish rants are great for YT views on reviews, but not really decent behavior when dealing with guests. Inviting people then ambushing them is poor behavior, unless you think the Jerry Springer Show is how people should behave.
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