Intel Developer Forum 2014

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IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,787
136
Intel's claims of "significant" sound good until you realize what it really means. Greater than 15% can mean that, as well as really good gain in one market category.

Back in Sandy Bridge, while overall gain was 15-20%, the quad core mobile chips gained 60%, letting them able to claim "biggest gains in Intel architecture history".

The evidence is virtually incontrovertible, though.
Click to expand...

What about the Y parts? http://xtreview.com/images/Intel-Skylake-Desktop-Processors.jpg

The Y B series parts say "Combine to Vcore Power Rail"
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
meloz said:
Okay, after a quick look at the Broadwell slides couple things stand out.

First, I conclude that iGPU is going to get a huge boost. I expect performance gains of at least 40%. This time they will catch AMD in iGPU performance in CPU upto 45 watt TDP. AMD might still have a slight edge on 65 watt+ desktop CPU/APU, but that lead should also come down dramatically.

AMD's one and only selling point is going going gone. Now there is no reason to buy AMD for a notebook or desktop system.

With Broadwell Intel's iGPU will now be almost as good as AMD, and with Skylake they can start to properly dismantle the GPU card business.

Second thing that stood out was the reduction in idle power consumption. Intel are promising platform savings of 60% on Windos(sic). That's massive. I wonder, though, whether we will see similar improvements on the linux side. Linux distros have traditionally been diastrous where energy efficiency is concerned. My desktop stays on 24 X 7 (seeding torrents), so any reduction in idle power consumption would be most welcome.
Click to expand...

As far as the igpu goes, I couldn't care less on the desktop, hence not really interested in AMD at all. But I am still hoping for a reasonably priced laptop that can do decent gaming without a discrete card. There could still be a place for AMD here, since Intel seems to only make the best igps available on very expensive chips. The A10 is just so tantalizingly close, but still not quite there. I am really tempted by a 500.00 A10 for light gaming, but just dont want to be so limited.

Edit: seems like the prices of gaming laptops with Intel plus discrete are gradually creeping up. Lenovo used to usually have a decent offering in the 850.00 range, but now everything with a decent gaming card is 1000.00.
 
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witeken

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
106
I have updated the TS with the new PDFs that are available (the most interesting ones). This includes a whitepaper that goes in-depth into the Gen8 architecture (no 14nm yet, though).

:thumbsup: Intel starts selling SD sized Edison for $50
:thumbsup: Graphics: Broadwell Gen8 IGP + Compute PDF
:thumbsup: Gen8 architecture whitepaper
:thumbsup: Intel® Processor Graphics: Power Optimization in Graphics Architecture + Media improvements
:thumbsup: Tablet Innovation: Experiences, Usages, and Opportunities with Intel’s 2015 Tablet Roadmap PDF

Interestingly enough, the last PDF about Intel's 2015 roadmap had a user review score of only 1/5. I guess the person who did not enjoy it expected a more detailed roadmap...

Edit: It's now possible to watch the opening keynote.

http://newsroom.intel.com/docs/DOC-5727#keynote
 
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frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
So is there going to be any info on 14nm atom? Broadwell may be a great technical improvement, but if intel really wants to get a significant share of the market, it is going to have to do it with atom and get into lower priced devices (running android) and phones. I am waiting for real world results from Broadwell, but even if it is a great technical leap, it is still basically an improvement in a market intel already owns, i.e. high end windows tablets and ultrabooks.
 
witeken

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
106
No info on Atom, I'm afraid...

Brian Krzanich did a Q&A on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bkrunner/with_replies

My 2 favorite tweets:

"Small... very very small.. by 2020 we should be at between 5nm and 7nm as Moore's law continues on. #idf14"

And on quantum computers: "we're working on them but they're still a ways out to be cost effective and usable #idf14"
 
N

Nothingness

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2013
3,292
2,360
136
First of all thanks for taking the time to post links, much appreciated :thumbsup:

witeken said:
:thumbsup: Intel starts selling SD sized Edison for $50
Click to expand...

Finally it's the chip alone that costs $50, you need a board to plug it into. The mini board with the chip costs $75 and the larger one $100 (Arduino, more usable IMHO). So it's definitely not in the same league as Raspberry (and given the level of performance that was to be expected), even functionally wise since none of the boards seem to have video output (unless I missed it ;)).

All the goodies are on sparkfun.
 
H

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,580
0
0
The graphics performance improvements look to be much larger than what the earlier information (from a few weeks ago) suggested. I think Intel was claiming performance increases of up to 40%? I don't see why real world performance would be far off from that number. Intel already had a lead in FLOPs compared to comparable GPUs from Nvidia and AMD, but was lacking in the texture and pixel fill performance. It's clear that Broadwell is much more appropriately balanced.

A Broadwell GT3e would easily outperform Nvidia's 650m, which Haswell GT3e compared similarly to in some case, but overall lost out by a fair margin during last year's Haswell reviews. Indeed, it does appear that Broadwell will bring the IGP we've been waiting for from Intel, to get acceptable performance in a mobile device, although it's likely that this will be limited to the costlier SKUs.

Broadwell GT3e vs. Kaveri should be significantly in favor of Intel, perhaps . Compared to Nvidia, Intel would be the easy choice compared to 700 series graphics. It's important to note that both of their competitors will have significantly improved products by the time GT3e finally makes it to market, and I have no doubt that Intel will have a lot of trouble stacking up next to Maxwell. AMD's roadmap is a lot more ambiguous, so it's hard to say what they'll bring to the table. At any rate, GT3e's high price tag is a bit more justifiable now, and GT2 and GT3 in mobile solutions should actually be decent.
 
M

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,291
2,379
136
Homeles said:
The graphics performance improvements look to be much larger than what the earlier information (from a few weeks ago) suggested. I think Intel was claiming performance increases of up to 40%?
Click to expand...

Do you have a source?


Homeles said:
Broadwell GT3e vs. Kaveri should be significantly in favor of Intel, perhaps .
Click to expand...

In 1 year Intel should easily match Kaveri/Carrizo graphics with a Gen9 based GT2 on Skylake.


Regarding the tablet session, as expected we won't see Broxton next year.
 
Arachnotronic

Arachnotronic

Lifer
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
witeken said:
I have updated the TS with the new PDFs that are available (the most interesting ones). This includes a whitepaper that goes in-depth into the Gen8 architecture (no 14nm yet, though).

:thumbsup: Intel starts selling SD sized Edison for $50
:thumbsup: Graphics: Broadwell Gen8 IGP + Compute PDF
:thumbsup: Gen8 architecture whitepaper
:thumbsup: Intel® Processor Graphics: Power Optimization in Graphics Architecture + Media improvements
:thumbsup: Tablet Innovation: Experiences, Usages, and Opportunities with Intel’s 2015 Tablet Roadmap PDF

Interestingly enough, the last PDF about Intel's 2015 roadmap had a user review score of only 1/5. I guess the person who did not enjoy it expected a more detailed roadmap...

Edit: It's now possible to watch the opening keynote.

http://newsroom.intel.com/docs/DOC-5727#keynote
Click to expand...

witeken,

Thanks for the links. I am actually pretty disappointed in the slide deck for the tablet roadmap -- no meaningful details for Cherry Trail and/or Broxton.

Interestingly, notice that Intel is claiming 2x gfx performance in the 14nm tablet chip relative to Z3775 . I need to dig up some numbers to figure out how that stands relative to S805/K1/etc.

At any rate, the most important part of the slide deck was the information on the game engine support. Once that is taken care of, IA really is a first-class citizen on Android. While there will probably still be native apps floating around with ARM-only code, getting the well-known, performance-sensitive applications taken care of is the right strategy.

Intel seems very serious about doing well in tablets, and I think that its strategy of basically leveraging its PC ecosystem partners has turned out surprisingly well.

Anyway, looking really forward to that 14nm technology deep-dive slide-deck. Hopefully they talk about 14nm LP v.s. the general purpose 14nm as well as give some drive current numbers at the various leakage numbers as they did with 22nm at IEDM 2012.
 
ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Homeles said:
I'm tremendously excited for DX12. I am tired of developers using DX9... The ancient computers and OSes need to be cut off already, and DX12 might be enough to kill DX9 once and for all.
Click to expand...

The best way to reach this would be if Windows 9 was a success. So we can all only hope that MS doesnt mess it up.
 
H

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,580
0
0
grimpr said:
Propably, but nobody will play anything on Skylake, you need a real GPU from AMD and Nvidia for that. Isnt that funny?
Click to expand...
Somebody clearly hasn't seen market share numbers for the past... forever. If you don't think people play on integrated graphics, you are truly sheltered from reality.
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Well, seems like every new generation from Intel has supposedly been the one that would make gaming practical on the igp, but it has never quite materialized, except for semi-adequate Iris Pro, which is very expensive and limited in availability. So I keep hoping, but I will believe it when I see it, especially on mainstream chips. Granted, you can play some games on HD4600 or Iris Pro, and more/better on Kaveri, but I dont consider either a satisfactory overall gaming experience. And like I said earlier, I am talking about mobile. In the desktop, I would not even consider gaming on the igp; just too easy to add a discrete card. Actually, if AMD can get their microstutter issues solved, asymetric crossfire with Kaveri might offer the best hope for satisfactory budget gaming on a laptop.
 
Phynaz

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Wow, Skylake reference platform includes wireless charging and Gigabit WiFi :eek:
 
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